shootout

[p diddy]

word on the street is that vashon pulled out of the shootout. haven't heard any details about the controversy. can you shed any light on this latest development V-Time? the event takes a big heat if that's true.

bad boyz for life

[Billikan]

I have not heard anything but it would not surprise me. Floyd pulled out before because he did not like the refs, etc., etc. I cannot imagine why they agreed to have him back knowing his propensity of pulling teams off the floor when he does not like what is happening. I am sure all fans will be disappointed--I know I would have like to have seen all of these young stars at Vashon-but I think is is unfair to blame the event. They have done a fantastic job over the years in bringing some of the best high school talent in the US to this series of games.

[TheGoat]

Yeah, I am gonna side with the shootout here. No offense to Vashon (and more likely V-TIME), but they bring in lots of other "Vashon's" every year. All kinds of top talent have played there before. The tourney has lived without the wolverines before, they will survive this time as well.

[Billikenbooster]

Charlie Tuna has a show on 1380 on Wed nite, and I was listening going home from our game. Floyd was on and made a point to say that the Shootout/Vashon game wasn't a done deal yet, but would probably happen. Guess it isn't.

Floyd must always be in control, and this isn't his show. I'm not surprised this has happened.

mhg

[VTIME]

The whole reason Vashon pulledo out in the first place is because he said that the Shootout was making all that money off the black athletes and not redistributing any of the money into the black communities. He almost has to get in the shootout this year because his sophomore and junior classes have 2 to 3 sure D1 players and oh yeah his senior class has D1 signee Bobby Hill and likely D1 signee James Washington. Dont forget about the three guys 6'8 or taller on their bench as well.

[billiken_roy]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...97?OpenDocument

is floyd's world about to come crashing down? i always wondered why someone would give up the tremendously higher pay of an administrator to be the basketball coach. unless, he actually gave himself a pay raise.

[OrlandoStewart]

Maybe Floyd has plans with his boyfriend instead of the shoot out!

[bauman]

DJ is a prime example of the failure of our City public school system and of the U. of Mo. "He don't take...." Real good grammar, DJ.

Let's see, according to "I don't recruit Floyd", everyone is out to get him because a. they don't like him, &/or b. he wins too much. Too bad most of those involved with the audits are Black, which takes away, "I don't recruit Floyd's" usual argument when he gets in trouble. I suspect that FI is not really interested in a college coaching job since it would actually involve a pay cut.

Can't wait for what Tuna has to say about everyone ganging up on poor FI. After Tuna weighs in watch Bernie fall in lockstep.

[kshoe]

that in general Floyd and DJ are good for the community and want whats best for the kids they serve. However, I am also convinced that both have massive ego's, bad tempers, and neither are willing to follow the "rules" to achieve their desired goals.

Floyd's abuse of the rules over time has been well documented, ranging for intimidation of officials to shady recruitment of players outside his district, etc.

DJ lost a lot of credibility in my mind when he brought in Jason Horton's father to "coach" the national team (during the summer before Jason's senior year when he was an uncommitted prospect) in his summer all-star game. Unless Mr. Horton paid for 100% of his expenses, DJ essentially used the charity all-star game as front for the university of Missouri and the costs incurred by Mr. Horton came out of the charities coffers.

At some levels its a classic "do the ends justify the means" argument as both Floyd and DJ do wonderful things for the black community but the methods that they do them are certainly questionable.

[billiken_roy]

reading between the lines, it appears that floyd got nike and coke to pay for things that were already paid for then if you believe that they used the excess cash to help the kids, my only beef is which kids?

it didnt go to the general vashon membership. it didnt go to even the vashon athletes at large. it would have all went to the vashon basketball team and recruiting budget. so even if you believe he did it for the kids, when it comes down to it, it was for his basketball team. not the kids.

personally, i question where it went. all i know is that people dont normally give up high paying administrative jobs to just be the basketball coach.

[tseugnekillib]

as of today....Vashon still on for an 8:30 game against a Memphis team.

[Orange Julius]

>At some levels its a classic "do the ends justify the means"

>argument as both Floyd and DJ do wonderful things for the

>black community but the methods that they do them are

>certainly questionable.

What wonderful things do they do for the black community?

[VTIME]

They host all sorts of Gateway Classic Events and sponsor boxing at Wohl's Community center to keep kids off the street. They sponsor Herbert Hoover Boys Club and lots of other programs to keep inner city youths from running idle in the streets and getting into trouble. Safe havens if you will. They raise money and give away scholarships. They do a ton. All you ever hear about is the bad, but maybe that's all anyone wants you to hear. They used to advertise a lot of their events and stuff on their site, sportswaveonline.com, which hasnt been updated recently but sheds a little light on things. Floyd Irons is not the problem. The violence was at an all-time low when he was the principal. The kids absolutely adore him and since he has been banned from the building except for practices and games, there has been nothing, but chaos. He has been there 33 years and has less than 130 losses and that figure is so ridiculous. No matter who he had in that uniform it was a winner every year. The guy can coach and may stick around 2 to 3 more seasons to get 900 wins.

[aj_arete]

if he is exonerated from these charges. The fact that he contributed many dollars and time to our community would all be washed away if it is found out that he cheated the St. Louis School System of tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I will wait until all of the evidence is in, but at a minimum, Floyd Irons deserves some blame for having shoddy accounting controls in place.

[Billiken Law]

>Let's see, according to "I don't recruit Floyd", everyone is

>out to get him because a. they don't like him, &/or b. he

>wins too much. Too bad most of those involved with the

>audits are Black, which takes away, "I don't recruit

>Floyd's" usual argument when he gets in trouble. I suspect

>that FI is not really interested in a college coaching job

>since it would actually involve a pay cut.

>

what HS programs don't recruit (public and private). Of course, many of them have their own definition of "recruit." Fact is that it goes on here, on the East Side, in Chicago, Detroit, everywhere, despite the rules saying it cannot.

[slufanskip]

I agree AJ. I think he probably does do some good things, but if he is guilty of these accusations ... then it is too bad, because any good he did will be negated.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[Orange Julius]

So Floyd Irons and DJ host all of those events or is it the Gateway Classic Foundation who host those events?

[VTIME]

http://sportswaveonline.com/cityrec.htm

they sponsor a lot of events like this

[aj_arete]

We're supposed to vehemently disagree with each other on EVERY issue. Who knows, maybe I'll have to start a political topic to get your blood boiling again... j/k

[NashvilleBilliken]

Good point. Everybody else cheats, so it's ok. Drop all charges, they're doing it in Chicago too!

[aj_arete]

with ALL St. Louis city schools, it would be difficult if not impossible to prove illegal recruiting. Now I have heard that Vashon at one time cheated, but I doubt they need to now. If you're a kid in the city, what school would you want to attend, especially when you don't have to fudge residency papers?

There are whispers that there is significant recruiting going on at many of the local private schools too. Such as giving bogus 'academic' scholarships, illegal financial aid and correspondence to talented kids... However, you never hear about it in the media.

[aj_arete]

and enforce the activities of ALL coaches, not just Vashon. It is not fair to sully Irons' reputation, at the expense of possibly just as guilty contempories, only because he is hated.

When residents step up to the plate and maybe ask for their taxes to be increased to support beefing up the staff at MSHSAA to do REAL investigations across all parts of Missouri, I think we should just move on to more important stuff. That would include ensuring money is being directed toward school supplies, better teachers and better facilities.

[bauman]

Wow, for someone who is probably 23-24 yrs. old, you have vast knowledge of all the high schools in STL, ESTL, Chicago and Detroit. I'm amazed.

Reading your posts on this and the Offseason Board leads me to give you some advice if you ever graduate from SLU Law School. You don't know everything, or even close to it, that you claim as factual knowledge for yourself. As a practicing lawyer (DN can probably confirm this) I suggest you learn a little humility if you ever enter the profession. While confidence is a good thing, excessive confidence equates to arrogance and will only hurt you, especially as a younger member of a firm or a Company.

[SluSignGuy]

whispers about recruiting in StL private schools??? Walk around the halls for a week at some schools and those whispers will become screams.

I haven't attended StL private school since '99, but there was definite recruitment of "academic" athletes.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I agree with the fact that most schools are "illegally" recruiting players and monitoring this is an expensive and difficult task. It just sounds like it's the old, if everybody else is doing it, then so can we approach. Can't say I agree with that.