cgeldmacher Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 How crowded are the SLU soccer games? I don't have numbers in front of me, but I recall hearing that SLU has led the nation in attendance for men's soccer at different times over the past two decades. St. Louis has always been one of the top soccer towns in the U.S. That isn't bragging or me saying St. Louis is better than any other city. It's just a fact. Youth soccer is bigger in St. Louis than most cities. Youth teams from St. Louis win more than the city's fair share of national championships. Friendly matches have sold out the Dome and Busch stadium in the last few years. Add the recent influx of Bosnians who would strongly support a local MLS team, and I can't see why we don't already have a team. The only problem has been getting a stadium and strong local ownership group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm confused why an article about Dr. Chaifetz trying to buy the Hawks translates into St. Louis might get an NBA team. Dr. Chaifetz is not from St. Louis. He lives in Chicago. His only connection to St. Louis is that he went to Saint Louis University. Bringing an NBA team to St. Louis would hurt SLU's basketball program. SLU gets a lot of casual fans of basketball that come out to the games on top of the avid alumni type fans. An NBA team would costs SLU those ticket sales. It's the combination of Chaifetz and an old St. Louis team. I don't think anyone is expecting the St. Louis Hawks to be resurrected for fall 2015. And I don't think SLU gets near the number of casual basketball fans you would expect for a school in a major city without an NBA team. In theory, you would think so, but the vast majority of the casual basketball fans I know without a connection to SLU (and many who do have a connection) follow Mizzou hoops much more closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 That point is a bug on the windshield if you can recall the Man City-Chelsea and Bosnia-Argentina games that were played in Saint Louis. Man City-Chelsea holds Busch Stadium's record attendance of over 48,000 and Bosnia-Argentina had an attendance over 30,000. Do those numbers not impress you? SLU soccer may have historical significance and be above-average year after year, but our only glimpses of truly professional soccer should foreshadow the success our own hometown program would have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busch_Stadium#Professional_soccer Elite programs coming to play a few games once in a while, of course the demand is higher and the stadium is packed. National teams and premiere soccer clubs playing will naturally draw a larger crowd than an average pro team. Also, when the Bulls played the Twolves at Scottrade the place was less than half filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 How crowded are the SLU soccer games? When compared to other college soccer programs, they are crowded. Seattle and LA Galaxy are the top two drawing US MLS teams. SLU averages more fans per game than UCLA or UW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Also, when the Bulls played the Twolves at Scottrade the place was less than half filled. Is it just me, or are the tickets for those exhibitions in St. Louis always ridiculously overpriced? I would much rather make the four hour drive to Memphis and see a real NBA game that actually counts. And people who prefer the Bulls or Pacers to the Grizzlies have similar manageable drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Or would it boost the city's basketball fan base, and increase sales? How about casual sports fans who are stolen from the SLU fan-base by the Blues and Rams franchises. The Rams and Blues are already here. They aren't stealing any fans. They just have their own fans. Just from living here as long as I have, I can tell you that Blues fans are not the types that would also consider watching a college basketball game in their spare time. I have no data to back that up, just my own observations. Since all Rams fans are casual fans, I suppose not having an NFL team might cause some of them to come over. It is possible that having an NBA team would make basketball more popular in St. Louis and result in more people coming out the SLU games. I just think it is more likely that an NBA team would take attendance away from SLU. Also, one of the selling points I have heard for SLU warranting consideration from the Big East is that SLU is the only basketball team in town. An NBA team would change that. I understand that this is one minor consideration amount many, many others, but it has been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'd put the chances at about 0 even if Chaifetz got the team. It's not just him going for ownership. He'd have to convince his whole group to come here. But yes I really do believe that it would hurt SLU basketball. Even a slight decrease in attendance would not be good for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Rams and Blues are already here. They aren't stealing any fans. They just have their own fans. Just from living here as long as I have, I can tell you that Blues fans are not the types that would also consider watching a college basketball game in their spare time. I have no data to back that up, just my own observations. I agree with you on the Bluesiers. They might be more likely to take an interest in Mizzou, if they root for any college team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Hawks aren't going anywhere. Soccer won't come to STL unless it's piggybacking an NFL stadium effort as there isn't an owner. Abas, we already have the archers: your MIT Archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills By 40 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Hawks aren't going anywhere. Soccer won't come to STL unless it's piggybacking an NFL stadium effort as there isn't an owner. Abas, we already have the archers: your MIT Archers. Littlebill spoke, his word is ultimate law, write it in stone. Pass a bill banning professional soccer or basketball in Saint Louis, it's over. Fuock MIT blow it up for all I care. Preferably without me in it, but beggars can't be choosers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If St. Louis somehow ends up without an NFL team at the end of the current brouhaha, I think attracting an NBA team will become a very real possibility. The Hawks probably won't be the most likely contender to move here. But if 1) the Rams leave, 2) no other NFL team replaces them, and 3) one NBA franchise with arena and attendance issues (in spite of having one of the best teams in one of the biggest markets) also happens to have a co-owner with basketball ties to St. Louis, it would start making some sense to wonder about. It's certainly at least worth idle message board speculation in between rehashing the same rants about Jim Crews' player rotations at the end of a 10-17 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Littlebill spoke, his word is ultimate law, write it in stone. Pass a bill banning professional soccer or basketball in Saint Louis, it's over. Fuock MIT blow it up for all I care. Preferably without me in it, but beggars can't be choosers. Google before you speak. The MLS/STL thing is a well known issue, as an owner with enough jack is needed for them to come to the 314.As for the Hawks thing, read this: http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/SLUBillikens/tabid/328/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16648/Bloomberg-Dr-Richard-Chaifetz-Among-Bidders-for-Atlanta-Hawks.aspx It explains that the Hawks are, like I said, not going anywhere. So like I've said so many times before - C-H-I-L-L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Google before you speak. The MLS/STL thing is a well known issue, as an owner with enough jack is needed for them to come to the 314. As for the Hawks thing, read this: http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/SLUBillikens/tabid/328/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16648/Bloomberg-Dr-Richard-Chaifetz-Among-Bidders-for-Atlanta-Hawks.aspx It explains that the Hawks are, like I said, not going anywhere. So like I've said so many times before - C-H-I-L-L Well, if an unnamed NBA spokesman claims they aren't moving, then that clinches it. They'll be in the Philips Arena until the seven trumpets sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills By 40 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Google before you speak. The MLS/STL thing is a well known issue, as an owner with enough jack is needed for them to come to the 314. As for the Hawks thing, read this: http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/SLUBillikens/tabid/328/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/16648/Bloomberg-Dr-Richard-Chaifetz-Among-Bidders-for-Atlanta-Hawks.aspx It explains that the Hawks are, like I said, not going anywhere. So like I've said so many times before - C-H-I-L-L No sh it! Clearly that's an issue, money makes the world go 'round. Did you read the article? "It probably won't happen," was all that was said. What's wrong with passion and persistency? I don't see any reason I should "chill," I'm not out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills By 40 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Well, if an unnamed NBA spokesman claims they aren't moving, then that clinches it. They'll be in the Philips Arena until the seven trumpets sound. +100 Fuock you little bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 What's wrong with passion and persistency? I don't see any reason I should "chill," I'm not out of line. You know who else had passion and persistency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills By 40 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 You know who else had passion and persistency? Hitler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hitler? First sexist, now anti-Semitic..... And hates football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If the NFL leaves town St. Louis becomes a lot more attractive to potential MLS owners and current NBA owners. If frees up a lot of corporate entertainment cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills By 40 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If the NFL leaves town St. Louis becomes a lot more attractive to potential MLS owners and current NBA owners. If frees up a lot of corporate entertainment cash. Bingo. First sexist, now anti-Semitic..... And hates football? Beware if you're a Jewish runningback with a ******. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think most casual fans agree that they'd rather watch an average NFL team play in their city than a decent soccer team. I'd rather watch the crappy bears than the Chicago fire. Soccer isn't a popular American sport for many reasons and doesn't do well for tv coverage (less commercials). I don't see that changing soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 I will agree, comparing St Louis v Atlanta is like comparing Husak v. Manning. Yikes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yes, the NFL is absolutely more concerned with market size. That is why the lack of a team in LA for the past 20 years has been made into such a huge issue in spite of the fact that LA has always been considered part of San Diego's territory and the Chargers have heavily relied on the LA market over those 20 years. Green Bay is a highly unique situation, and you might as well consider it a part of the Milwaukee market (the Packers have even played games there historically). Green Bay, Buffalo (#44), and New Orleans (#37) are the only NFL teams in markets outside the top 30 CSAs. Compare that to the NBA, which includes New Orleans (#37), OKC (#40), Memphis (#41), and Portland (#76). In addition to those four outside the top 30, they also have Charlotte (#21), Sacramento (#22), Salt Lake City (#24), Indianapolis (#26), and Milwaukee (#29). That means nine of the 30 NBA franchises are currently in smaller markets than St. Louis. There may or may not be legitimate reasons an NBA franchise won't end up in or wouldn't be successful in St. Louis, but the idea that the market is too small (or that the NBA is more concerned with market size than the NFL) is simply false. I don't think this can even be seriously debated. I'm not sure what your debate here is. A franchise in Atlanta, a poor pro sports market but large market overall, is not moving to St Louis, a poor pro sports market and small-ish market (in sports terms) overall. The NFL is not concerned with markets. If there were much more money to be made in the NFL, the Jaguars, Vikings, Rams, Raiders, or Chargers would have been rushing to move there (or never would have left.) The money is the same, as long as they are maximizing attendance and corporate revenue - which is why the Rams are looking to make a move. Which then loops back to needing a stadium to maximize those things. The TV money is all national so it doesn't really matter where these teams are playing. The NBA in current day has to be concerned with the market size. The TV deals these teams are getting in the past 3-4 years are massive. It is no different than the college football realignment. The issue is that the smaller market teams are not going to command top dollar for their TV deals that the Lakers, Clippers, Bulls, etc. will. Since it would be bad for the league and the franchises for them to pick up for the best available market, they will probably change the revenue sharing structure amongst the teams soon. The general setup of the structure currently gives an advantage to teams in larger markets because they are able to generate more revenue through their TV, radio, and other deals. And obviously the ancillary things like tradition, winning, etc. come into play on both accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think most casual fans agree that they'd rather watch an average NFL team play in their city than a decent soccer team. I'd rather watch the crappy bears than the Chicago fire. Soccer isn't a popular American sport for many reasons and doesn't do well for tv coverage (less commercials). I don't see that changing soon. MLS gets better attendance than the NBA does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 MLS gets better attendance than the NBA does That is a fuzzy statistic at best. MLS has a higher average attendance, but that is for a few reasons. Less games, less cost, fewer teams, and the biggest is the larger stadiums. Seattle can put 44,000 in Century Link, but the Trailblazers can only hold 20,000. The flip side to this is that the NBA still has more people in attendance every year, generates more revenue, and isn't a B league in terms of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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