The Wiz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I guess this would still be behind Bradley on a neutral court in terms of our "best" win of the season so far, right? Bradley gave Central Michigan their only loss. Brian is correct. SIU is our best win....C. Bradley is a D-....in fact , UTPA is a clone of Bradley numerically speaking...Bradley = UTPA....so it is probably more than a coincidence that we are favored by 3 in that we also beat Bradley by 3. Our next best win is Ind St....D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVBilliken Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'd much rather play the frosh, who are better athletes than MC. MC needs to remain an off the bench shooter, no more than 15 minutes a game. More minutes is not good for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Brian is correct. SIU is our best win....C. Bradley is a D-....in fact , UTPA is a clone of Bradley numerically speaking...Bradley = UTPA....so it is probably more than a coincidence that we are favored by 3 in that we also beat Bradley by 3. Our next best win is Ind St....D A C team at home has to be pretty close to a D team on the road, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 A C team at home has to be pretty close to a D team on the road, right? Yes....My rule of thumb is you drop 2 steps on the road....for example a C become a D+ on the road or a B- becomes a C. However it varies from team to team. In this example SIU-C ( C ranked) drops to Bradley's level ( D- ) in Peoria ( a 4 step drop). This is partially due to greater parity, particularly in the mid to lower regions of college basketball. It is because of that parity in the mid to lower levels that it would easier for the Bills to move up from F+ if they can win a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Their are 351 D1 basketball teams. Sagarin ranks our schedule currently at 341. SIU's comes in at 333. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yes....My rule of thumb is you drop 2 steps on the road....for example a C become a D+ on the road or a B- becomes a C. However it varies from team to team. In this example SIU-C ( C ranked) drops to Bradley's level ( D- ) in Peoria ( a 4 step drop). This is partially due to greater parity, particularly in the mid to lower regions of college basketball. It is because of that parity in the mid to lower levels that it would easier for the Bills to move up from F+ if they can win a few. We didn't play Bradley in a road game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Their are 351 D1 basketball teams. Sagarin ranks our schedule currently at 341. SIU's comes in at 333. Don't use facts on this board. They get in the way of how we want to see things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Crawford maybe a very good shooter while playing "horse" but in the game when he has people defending him he can not get the shot off. The problem is if you can not get the shot off in time then it really does not mean anything. People here are talking about him being able to shoot the 3 but he has not demonstrated any real proficiency. At this time, we are just not a good team. We need to figure out how to get better and putting a guy in who is slow of foot and slow on the release of his shot is not going to help much. By the way, during the last game he played more than 3.5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Their are 351 D1 basketball teams. Sagarin ranks our schedule currently at 341. SIU's comes in at 333. You are correct ....both SIU-C and the Bills have very weak schedules to this point. Carbondale whch has slipped to C- is not that far ahead of us. As I explained above, there seems to be more parity in the lower half of college basketball rankings this year. With that said the current difference between SIU-C and the Bills is that the weak Saluki wins are considered "better" wins than the weak Bills wins. Conversely, the Saluki losses are considered "better " than the Bills losses. As an example, I remember the NCAT game was very damaging to the Bills numbers even though we won. It was because we just barely beat a team that was an F-. Btw, NCAT is still F- and yet to win a game. Which brings up another point...when teams we have played do poorly, it hurts our numbers too As for the Bradley/SIU-C grade comparison, I was just using that as an example of grading road vs home comparisons. Yes, Bradley,was a win on a neutral floor against a "better" team. But bragging we beat a D- team is splitting hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Only 3 guys on the team have made more shots than Crawford. Nobody here thinks he's a create your own shot type guy. He needs set shots. We just don't run anything for him and hardly have a play in our offensive set that results in an open 3 for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't use facts on this board. They get in the way of how we want to see things RPI has SLU's schedule at 324 and SIU's at 341. Unlike the other metrics, Sports-Reference's SRS shows a big gap between SLU's schedule (-5.36) and SIU's (-10.28). It's a shame you couldn't offer a fact-based argument for why Sagarin is somehow more meaningful at this stage of the season than the other two metrics. Although word on the street is you might hurt your chances of getting your Twitter account pasted to the homepage by doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 We didn't play Bradley in a road game. Nobody said we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 RPI has SLU's schedule at 324 and SIU's at 341. Unlike the other metrics, Sports-Reference's SRS shows a big gap between SLU's schedule (-5.36) and SIU's (-10.28). It's a shame you couldn't offer a fact-based argument for why Sagarin is somehow more meaningful at this stage of the season than the other two metrics. Although word on the street is you might hurt your chances of getting your Twitter account pasted to the homepage by doing so. I perfer Sagarin and Pomeroy. They tend to have the better track record. Pomeroy has SLU's at 321 and SIU's is at 332. The point wasn't that our schedule was worse. The point is both schedules suck just about equally so far. People refuse to see just how bad we are right now and I think part of the reason why is they don't realize how awful the schedule has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Totally disagree. Spending a few minutes reading these message boards would be enough to convince anyone that we are 351 in everything. If there are people who don't realize how bad SLU has been in the first 10 games, they aren't around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I like Crawford, but he's made 16 shots (3 of them were 3's...3 for 11). Of the other 13, how many weren't layups? Just wondering as I don't remember too many made jumpers. Seems like quite a few of the buckets I remember are him driving to the basket. Finishing a layup on a drive to the basket is no small task for this team this year. We have to give credit when someone is actually converting those chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 People refuse to see just how bad we are right now and I think part of the reason why is they don't realize how awful the schedule has been. We're barely beating - or losing to - teams that we should be beating by double-digit margins. I was looking at the schedule from 96-97 - we lost to UMKC by 21 and Maine at home by 3. Methdale beat us by 29 at Scottrade. Interestingly enough, that schedule also included Indiana, UCLA and Vandy. Looks like the team started to put things together a bit toward the end, picking up a few wins and losing a bunch of close games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I perfer Sagarin and Pomeroy. They tend to have the better track record. Pomeroy has SLU's at 321 and SIU's is at 332. The point wasn't that our schedule was worse. The point is both schedules suck just about equally so far. People refuse to see just how bad we are right now and I think part of the reason why is they don't realize how awful the schedule has been. Brian, I am starting to see it your way. I keep waiting for us to flip the switch and turn into a mediocre team, but we seem incapable of doing that. I only saw about half of the Edwardsville game, but it had an opposite feel of the doomsday losses of years past. In the past when we struggled, we would get unlucky, shoot poorly, face a hot team, or just sleep walk. It was frustrating. This year I am not sure what to think. During the Edwardsville game, it just looked like a contest between 2 evenly matched teams. No hot/cold shooting/refs/bad luck contributing to the close game. That is what I am most concerned with. During RM's 2 mediocre years, we won 7 and 8 games respectively in conference (not terrible). The prospect of Conference play is terrifying at the moment. What would happen if Edwardsville went to Fordham to play? I think the game would be pretty much the same. RM never fielded a "fordham-like" team, even though we were "rebuilding" in 2010. I will continue to watch and hope that we will look better (especially on defense). I hope something clicks tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Brian, I am starting to see it your way. I keep waiting for us to flip the switch and turn into a mediocre team, but we seem incapable of doing that. I only saw about half of the Edwardsville game, but it had an opposite feel of a doomsday loss in year's past. In the past when we struggled, we would get unlucky, shoot poorly, face a hot team, or just sleep walk. It was frustrating. This year I am not sure what to think. During the Edwardsville games, it just looked like a match-up of evenly matched teams. No hot/cold shooting/refs/bad luck contributing to the close game. That is what I am most concerned with. During RM's 2 mediocre years, we won 7 and 8 games respectively in conference (not terrible). The prospect of Conference play is terrifying at the moment. What would happen if Edwardsville went to Fordham to play? I think the game would be pretty much the same. RM never fielded a "fordham-like" team, even though we were "rebuilding" in 2010. I will continue to watch and hope that we will look better (especially on defense). I hope something clicks tonight. Edwardsville would get run out of the gym by somebody like Mason or Fordham. That's scary in and of itself. Plus, 9 of those games will be on the road. Yeah, conference is going to be a tough go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Finishing a layup on a drive to the basket is no small task for this team this year. We have to give credit when someone is actually converting those chances.Last there were complaints that Jett and McCall had trouble finishing layups because they were too short and if they were taller they could finish better. Well, we have 6'4" guards now who have trouble finishing. It's not just height involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Brian, I am starting to see it your way. I keep waiting for us to flip the switch and turn into a mediocre team, but we seem incapable of doing that. I only saw about half of the Edwardsville game, but it had an opposite feel of a doomsday loss in year's past. In the past when we struggled, we would get unlucky, shoot poorly, face a hot team, or just sleep walk. It was frustrating. This year I am not sure what to think. During the Edwardsville games, it just looked like a match-up of evenly matched teams. No hot/cold shooting/refs/bad luck contributing to the close game. That is what I am most concerned with. During RM's 2 mediocre years, we won 7 and 8 games respectively in conference (not terrible). The prospect of Conference play is terrifying at the moment. What would happen if Edwardsville went to Fordham to play? I think the game would be pretty much the same. RM never fielded a "fordham-like" team, even though we were "rebuilding" in 2010. I will continue to watch and hope that we will look better (especially on defense). I hope something clicks tonight. I thought we would mediorce this season. I didn't see this coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Edwardsville would get run out of the gym by somebody like Mason or Fordham. That's scary in and of itself. Plus, 9 of those games will be on the road. Yeah, conference is going to be a tough go. Beating Vermont or Vanderbilt would make the conference schedule look a lot less imposing. The only two decent opponents we have faced so far made short work of us. But I am willing to give this team two more shots against decent (or at least halfway decent) opponents before declaring the conference season a lost cause. At this point, even a single-digit loss to Vandy would raise this team's stock a little. Of course, all that's assuming the Bills manage to take care of business tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Brian, I am starting to see it your way. I keep waiting for us to flip the switch and turn into a mediocre team, but we seem incapable of doing that. I only saw about half of the Edwardsville game, but it had an opposite feel of the doomsday losses of years past. In the past when we struggled, we would get unlucky, shoot poorly, face a hot team, or just sleep walk. It was frustrating. This year I am not sure what to think. During the Edwardsville game, it just looked like a contest between 2 evenly matched teams. No hot/cold shooting/refs/bad luck contributing to the close game. That is what I am most concerned with. During RM's 2 mediocre years, we won 7 and 8 games respectively in conference (not terrible). The prospect of Conference play is terrifying at the moment. What would happen if Edwardsville went to Fordham to play? I think the game would be pretty much the same. RM never fielded a "fordham-like" team, even though we were "rebuilding" in 2010. I will continue to watch and hope that we will look better (especially on defense). I hope something clicks tonight. I don't remember RM having a team that lost 75% of the minutes played the previous year. Including Grandy we have lost 152 minutes per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Beating Vermont or Vanderbilt would make the conference schedule look a lot less imposing. The only two decent opponents we have faced so far made short work of us. But I am willing to give this team two more shots against decent (or at least halfway decent) opponents before declaring the conference season a lost cause. At this point, even a single-digit loss to Vandy would raise this team's stock a little. Of course, all that's assuming the Bills manage to take care of business tonight. If anything, winning one of those games is a nice confidence and morale boost for the team heading into A10 play. We will still struggle but the guys at least need to have the mentality that they can compete with anyone on their home court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I didn't say I was writing off the conference season...I just think it will be really difficult as we are currently playing. There's time to fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Of course, all that's assuming the Bills manage to take care of business tonight. I think it's probably wise to assume nothing at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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