majerus mojo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 David Ortiz > Stan Musial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF1 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Moving Beltran to 4th against the lefty made good sense, given the Cards' hitting woes and the attempt to balance the lineup better with Shane Robinson playing CF. Beltran will likely be back in the #2 spot against Lackey in Game 6. As for Boston being an "iconic" franchise, some perspective: St. Louis Cardinals: 19 NL pennants, 11 World Series Championships San Francisco Giants: 22 NL pennants, 7 World Series Championships Oakland A's: 15 AL pennants, 9 World Series Championships Boston Red Sox: 13 AL pennants, 7 World Series Championships. If Boston is iconic, what does that make the Giants and A's? Going to watch the A's in Oakland, one does not feel to be in the presence of icons. And yet those very A's are the 2nd most successful AL franchise, ahead of all hallowed (in their own minds) Boston. I saw Boston play in Oakland this year. While the presence of the Bosox always brings out a large group of transplanted Chowderheads, I did not feel like I was in the presence of icons. Evidently they did. This is still the franchise that once sold Babe Ruth. Here is some more perspective for you. How many of the teams you list ahead of the Red Sox were in the same division/league as the perrenial WS Champion New York Yankees for the last 100 years directly fighting them for a playoff berth? How many regular season games do they play vs the NYY every year (which in turn factors into the sos and record). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 the A's have a cooler looking hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 David Ortiz > Stan Musial Dude is back on the roids. Gets away with it because he has a playful personality and the media likes him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 David Ortiz > Stan Musial He should be better than Stan is. Stan is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Dude is back on the roids. Gets away with it because he has a playful personality and the media likes him. Didn't work out so well for Ryan Braun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 He should be better than Stan is. Stan is dead. if we're taking shits on deceased st. louis legends, i guess i'll take a stab at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Oakland O.co Coliseum, the House of Thrills Raw sewage Tarps Shibe Park Connie Mack, Jimmy Foxx Charley Finley Reggie "Mr. October" Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, Rollie Fingers, Joe Rudi, Captain Sal Bando, Bert Campaneris, Blue Moon Odom, Billy North Dennis Eckersley, the Bash Brothers: Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco, Carney Lansford, Dave Parker Dave Stewart- who owned Roger Clemens and Boston, Bob Welch (27-3) Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan Sandy Alderson and Walt Jocketty The genius that is Billy Beane and MoneyBall Monty Moore Bill King & Lon Simmons M.C. Hammer, Tom Hanks, Brad Pitt (from MO) playing Billy Beane Mayor Jean Quan Former Oakland Mayor and current California Governor and Oakland resident Jerry Brown Yes, absolutely the Oakland A's, the Pride of the East Bay and Oak-Town! That's not icoism, it's pop culture. Kind of like comparing the Beatles to Maroon Five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The world second biggest tool? Tim McCarver? Show some respect. A 72 year old, still active and productive in the highest level of MLB broadcasting: the goddam World Series. A 20+ year ML baseball player, damn good catcher, exceptional hitter (for a catcher). team leader, a Cardinal who played on one of our World Series championships, who made it to several All Star games. Now has been a featured MLB broadcaster for, what, 30+ years, won an Emmy. Made some gaffes. Who hasn't? Good guy. Solid baseball man. Please list your credentials. (damn I decide to look at this board after a long layoff to see what the usual losers would be saying about the WS, and sure enough, the first goddam post, an old reliable makes ass-of-self. I dunno if I should look at the rest of this...) Joe Morgan was an even better baseball player than McCarver and might be the only guy who has been criticized more than McCarver regarding his commentary during broadcasts. Just because someone was a good/great ballplayer in their day and knows a lot about the game, doesn't mean that makes them entertaining to listen to. It isn't about showing the proper respect because of someone's accomplishments. It is about not wanting to place the television on mute when watching the game. McCarver and Morgan, among others, have had the innate ability to absolutely infuriate people to the point that they go to message boards, Twitter and create entire websites (i.e. Fire Joe Morgan, Awful Announcing) to point out how much they dislike them. Thankfully, Morgan is now off of the air and soon, McCarver will be too. I will hand this to you, MB. You are the first person I've ever heard come to Tim McCarver's defense. Seriously, I've never met anyone who enjoyed listening to McCarver. It almost seems like you're taking a contrarian approach just to maintain your reputation here. Glad to see you're back! (I'm serious about being glad that you're back on the board. It honestly isn't the same without you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Here is some more perspective for you. How many of the teams you list ahead of the Red Sox were in the same division/league as the perrenial WS Champion New York Yankees for the last 100 years directly fighting them for a playoff berth? How many regular season games do they play vs the NYY every year (which in turn factors into the sos and record). No excuse- win, don't lose. The Cardinals have played since 1892 in the highly competitive National League, with 2 other premier NL franchises, the Dodgers and the Giants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Dude is back on the roids. Gets away with it because he has a playful personality and the media likes him. + he plays for Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 David Ortiz > Stan Musial Please. Career Stats: Ortiz: .287, REPEAT .287; 431 HR's playing half his games in a bandbox; 1429 RBI's, and accumulating most of these stats as a Designated Hitter under Junior Circuit Rules, not having to play in the field. These stats are not even Hall of Fame worthy, especially given the "totality of the circumstances." Stan "The Man" Musial: .331, 475 HR's, a whopping 1,951 RBI's. Hall of Famer, without any question. No comparison, no contest, Case Closed. Jimmy Edmonds > Ortiz. Edmonds: .284, 393 HR's playing in 3 fair home parks, 1,199 RBI's, and where Jimmy shines light years over your boy Ortiz- 8, count them, 8 Gold Gloves. MLB does not yet award Gold Gloves to Designated Hitters. However, given this clear slight to all hallowed Boston, when will Bud Selig convene a Blue Ribbon Committee to allow DH's to receive Gold Gloves like all other players? Isn't it all a matter of "intent?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Please. Career Stats: Ortiz: .287, REPEAT .287; 431 HR's playing half his games in a bandbox; 1429 RBI's, and accumulating most of these stats as a Designated Hitter under Junior Circuit Rules, not having to play in the field. These stats are not even Hall of Fame worthy. Stan "The Man" Musial: .331, 475 HR's, a whopping 1,951 RBI's. Hall of Famer, without any question. No comparison, no contest, Case Closed. Jimmy Edmonds > Ortiz. Edmonds: .284, 393 HR's playing in 3 fair home parks, 1,199 RBI's, and where Jimmy shines light years over your boy Ortiz- 8, count them, 8 Gold Gloves. Looks like BAB just got trolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looks like BAB just got trolled. I was in SF this morning, while driving saw the top and lights of AT&T Park, and heard a Boston scribe turned radio talking head make the claim that Ortiz is now a Hall of Famer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLIKNS Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I hate Big Poopy and the red sux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Please. Career Stats: Ortiz: .287, REPEAT .287; 431 HR's playing half his games in a bandbox; 1429 RBI's, and accumulating most of these stats as a Designated Hitter under Junior Circuit Rules, not having to play in the field. These stats are not even Hall of Fame worthy, especially given the "totality of the circumstances." Stan "The Man" Musial: .331, 475 HR's, a whopping 1,951 RBI's. Hall of Famer, without any question. No comparison, no contest, Case Closed. Jimmy Edmonds > Ortiz. Edmonds: .284, 393 HR's playing in 3 fair home parks, 1,199 RBI's, and where Jimmy shines light years over your boy Ortiz- 8, count them, 8 Gold Gloves. MLB does not yet award Gold Gloves to Designated Hitters. However, given this clear slight to all hallowed Boston, when will Bud Selig convene a Blue Ribbon Committee to allow DH's to receive Gold Gloves like all other players? Isn't it all a matter of "intent?" Actually they do. See another steroid boy Rafael Palmeiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I was in SF this morning, while driving saw the top and lights of AT&T Park, and heard a Boston scribe turned radio talking head make the claim that Ortiz is now a Hall of Famer. As much as you may hate it, he probably is. You can whine about him being a DH and playing at Fenway, but 3 World Series titles (if they win this year), a lifetime OPS of .930, 5 top-5 MVP finishes and likely more than 500 homers when he retires probably gets him in on the first ballot. Add to that the media's and Boston's love affair with him and his postseason exploits and the only way he isn't going in is if he gets popped for 'roids or is tied in a major PED scandal ala A-Rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Actually they do. See another steroid boy Rafael Palmeiro That was a disgrace when they did that. Thankfully, Rawlings has finally added a statistical component to the voting, so it isn't just contingent on coaches and managers voting on reputation. 25% of the votes now for the Gold Glove is based on a defensive index provided by SABR. That is probably why there were 8 first-timers named to the Gold Glove team this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That was a disgrace when they did that. Thankfully, Rawlings has finally added a statistical component to the voting, so it isn't just contingent on coaches and managers voting on reputation. 25% of the votes now for the Gold Glove is based on a defensive index provided by SABR. That is probably why there were 8 first-timers named to the Gold Glove team this year. And ... 25% probably isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Joe Morgan was an even better baseball player than McCarver and might be the only guy who has been criticized more than McCarver regarding his commentary during broadcasts. Just because someone was a good/great ballplayer in their day and knows a lot about the game, doesn't mean that makes them entertaining to listen to. It isn't about showing the proper respect because of someone's accomplishments. It is about not wanting to place the television on mute when watching the game. McCarver and Morgan, among others, have had the innate ability to absolutely infuriate people to the point that they go to message boards, Twitter and create entire websites (i.e. Fire Joe Morgan, Awful Announcing) to point out how much they dislike them. Thankfully, Morgan is now off of the air and soon, McCarver will be too. I will hand this to you, MB. You are the first person I've ever heard come to Tim McCarver's defense. Seriously, I've never met anyone who enjoyed listening to McCarver. It almost seems like you're taking a contrarian approach just to maintain your reputation here. Glad to see you're back! (I'm serious about being glad that you're back on the board. It honestly isn't the same without you!) Bizzle boy, you missed the point, as usual. Just like the good old days... did you do that as a favor? MB's point is that McCarver is NOT the second biggest TOOL; and that he should be respected. MB is aware that McCarver can be aggravating, etc. I get it, Bania... criticism is fair, but for a foo-foo lightweight like Billikien Rich to call St. Louis Cardinal great Tim McCarver a TOOL... well, that is not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/matt-carpenter-and-a-strike-most-amazing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 As much as you may hate it, he probably is. You can whine about him being a DH and playing at Fenway, but 3 World Series titles (if they win this year), a lifetime OPS of .930, 5 top-5 MVP finishes and likely more than 500 homers when he retires probably gets him in on the first ballot. Add to that the media's and Boston's love affair with him and his postseason exploits and the only way he isn't going in is if he gets popped for 'roids or is tied in a major PED scandal ala A-Rod. If Ortiz is a Hall of Famer, then Barry Bonds is a candidate for Canonization. At last report, Ortiz still DH's (not plays, mind you, merely hits) at archaic Fenway Park. Barry Bonds saved a franchise and built a ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Looks like BAB just got trolled. Bizzle heating up. I was in SF this morning, while driving saw the top and lights of AT&T Park, and heard a Boston scribe turned radio talking head make the claim that Ortiz is now a Hall of Famer. Wait for it... As much as you may hate it, he probably is. You can whine about him being a DH and playing at Fenway, but 3 World Series titles (if they win this year), a lifetime OPS of .930, 5 top-5 MVP finishes and likely more than 500 homers when he retires probably gets him in on the first ballot. Add to that the media's and Boston's love affair with him and his postseason exploits and the only way he isn't going in is if he gets popped for 'roids or is tied in a major PED scandal ala A-Rod. Bizzle on fire! Ortiz is a lock fort the HOF, they started working on the plaque the moment he launched that grand slam into the bullpen in the ALCS, putting the Sox within another win of a World Series title all by himself. Greatest postseason hitter of all-time (serious on this claim.. or at least the last 25 years.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Ortiz had a positive PED test. No way he gets in. No one with any hint of PEDs has been voted in. They haven't even gotten close to getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Bizzle heating up. Wait for it... Bizzle on fire! Ortiz is a lock fort the HOF, they started working on the plaque the moment he launched that grand slam into the bullpen in the ALCS, putting the Sox within another win of a World Series title all by himself. Greatest postseason hitter of all-time (serious on this claim.. or at least the last 25 years.) Have you ever heard of Reggie Jackson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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