If one assumes Coach Soderberg is building his Billikens from the outside in with major emphasis on signing talented guards, can the team be successful in the near term relying upon the level of bigs

[jjray]

[davidnark]

That is the most long-winded poll question I have seen in a while.

[kshoe]

if the team does not make the tourney but I also expect us to be on the bubble yet again next year. How should I vote?

[jjray]

Heck if I know. I've already been scolded for making the poll question too long so further explanation would seem to be prohibited.

[tseugnekillib]

jj, just curious, why not measure the level of optimism over our 4's and 5's?

If the our post players don't screen well, rebound and defend the post area, our talented guards won't be getting the best opportunity to show their skills.

[jjray]

Roy, et al. are pessimistic about our inside players and I recognize that one cannot dismiss their arguments as completely unjustified. But is there a feeling out there that we shall be so poor at 4-5 as to pull down our increasing atheleticism and skill level at guard? Especially if TL stays the course and comes in with Lisch next season, we shall be great in the back court for years to come. Very few NCAA teams have an Okafor but still are successful. I'm optimistic about this team although I think we are one more recruiting class away from having a solid tournament team.

[BillikenButch]

Be the opinion optimistic or pessimistic I do not see anyone saying that we are not moving in the right direction. There is reason to be excited.

Our future guard play, coaching, and game style are good enough to get us to the tournament...if we can get good non-conference opponents.

If the potential of the inside players recruited by the staff mirrored the potential of the guards, we would really have something terrific. I hope we get to that terrific place. Getting there is going to be very hard work. I think it is a legitimate question to ask if the staff can land the big players as freshman who can make an impact. They simply have not done it yet.

I am a bit more concerned about our future ability to schedule good games. We will lose something moving out of C-USA that the A-10 likely will not replace. As we get better, and thus more difficult to beat, I wonder if we can get games to strengthen our schedule against the premier teams. If we are as good with Lidell and Lisch as we hope to be, do you see Arizona coming to BiondiDome? I am not so sure.

[kwyjibo]

Actually the first two choices are redundant.

With our schedule in C-USA being over .500 means being in the NIT. I assume we will improve our non-conference scheduling when we enter the A-10 so the same will be true then. While it is POSSIBLE to be over .500 and not in the NIT it is highly unlikely in the next few years (only possible if the A-10 RPI as a whole plummets).

So we have a choice between NIT every year, NIT and then NCAA, and NCAA every year? All are possible but that sort of forces the choice to optimistic. It reminds me of my nephew polling on what to have for dinner (all options includes cake and ice cream--only the entree changes).

Personally, I am optimistic but that optimism is about things 3-4 years out. I will wait on next year's forecast until I get more data.

[kshoe]

next year and especially in a few years when Polk, Lisch and Liddell are controlling the team will likely be top 25 caliber. If our 4s and 5s are similar to the current level that should be good enough to get us into the dance. However, if Brad is able to upgrade our bigs to a similar level of quality (guys ranked between 75-150 and recruited by big 10 teams would be a good level) we will have a top 15 caliber team. While I think the goal in any given year should be an NCAA tourney birth the dream is always a sweet 16 birth and more. I believe half the puzzle is in place for that with our guards but for us to really become a major player we are going to have to improve our bigs. Its not that I dislike our current bigs but for us to take the program to the next level we will need to improve our inside presence in a manner similar to how we have improved our guards.

[Sheltiedave]

With Polk, Lisch, Liddell, and Alexander, our presumed backcourt will be similar to Illinois' current backcourt. Illinois has a 6'6" PF in Roger Powell, a 6'10" center in James Augustine, and a 7'+ backup in Nick Smith. Gee, that seems similar to our frontcourt projections. A little less talent, a little less skill, but definitely a Top 25 team with some expected development.

[tseugnekillib]

It seems our future depends on our guards playing up to their high school hype and our biggs developing.

Keep in mind that Coach Brad's stable of biggs (Brown, Braun, Varner, Sloan, Frerick, Izik, JJ, Ian) have contributed to 35 victories over the past two seasons; including wins over Cincy, Louisville, Charlotte 2x, Memphis 2x, DePaul 3x, Dayton 2x, SIU-C, West Virginia, Marquette, K-State and Iowa. Not bad for a no-name bunch of biggs.

I like our future, and I like our chances of recruiting a quality high school post player next November.

[slufanskip]

I still say our bigs are underated. I think that IV will be at least an all conference performer by his Sr. year and will be improving each year on his way up. I will not be surprised to see him hit

7-8ppg and 4-5 rpg as a sophmore. My very early projections for his Sr year are 13-15 ppg and 7-8 rpg. The better our gaurds the more space inside. With DP and KL raining 3's at a nice clip ... teams will not be able to bottle up the inside. I am also not disapointed with IO ... Just my opinion but I don't agree with how he has been used. He receives the ball too far away from the bucket. He needs to get it within 10 feet. He has nice ball skills but his strides are too long and slow to drive from the perimiter ... the ball gets knocked away alot or he walks.

BH is young but you can't teach 7'. TF is very tough and VN we don't know. I think those 4 make a nice inside set of players. My vote is NCAA's next year and then improvement from there. I want and expect an off year to be a 1st round loss in the tourney a normal year to be at least one tourney win and sweet 16 or better in a good year.

I think more than our bigs DP is a key ... he has to create space and opportunities ... and take the pressure off RB. I would like to see RB get an occasional open look, something he got very little of last year. He also must be able to deliver the ball inside to our bigs in the proper position, again something that happened very little last year. I think he can ... and I think he can as a freshman.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[SLUMS81]

During SLU's best years under Spoon, we had great guard play with scoring from the wings. We had very little inside scoring presence and if memory serves me correctly we were usually outplayed inside. Donnie Dobbs and Jeff Harris were warriors but were undersized. Evan Pederson and David Robinson were never in danger of being selected to the all-conference teams.

Our current crop of bigs is adequate, in my opinion. Would I love to see us sign another Anthony Bonner? Of course. Give Husak and Vouyoukas time to develop.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Let me piggyback off of SLUms81's post and say that 10 years ago the Billikens were coming off of an NCAA Tournament appearance with Evan Pedersen and Donnie Dobbs (6'3") departing as inside players, David Robinson and Donnie Campbell (both 6'6" junior college transfers after their first season at SLU) and 6'4" rising sophomore Jeff Harris returning and 6'8" juco rising sophomore coming in at the inside positions. They returned to the NCAA Tournament in 1995. I would take the 2004-05 frontcourt (Izik Ohanon, Tom Frericks, Justin Johnson, Ian Vouyoukas, Vas'shun Newborne, and Bryce Husak) in a heartbeat over the 1994-95 frontcourt.

The Billikens will make the 2005 NCAA Tournament on the strength of strong senior seasons by Ohanon, Reggie Bryant, and Frericks and the upgrade in team athleticism and depth and increased familiarity with Brad Soderberg's system.

[kshoe]

our current level of bigs is good enough for us to be a good team with this group of guards but for us to be a great team (much more than 35 victories in 2 years) the skill level of our bigs needs to be improved.

[3star_recruit]

If IO and Frericks are our starters in the backcourt and Newborne plays backup minutes at the power forward, I don't see how IV will play enough to average 7-8 ppg. I'm thinking the minutes will break down something like this:

IO/Newborne/JJ 20/12/8

Frericks/IV 24/16

I also expect Newborne to see some time at the 3 when we have to defend big, athletic 3s like Francicso Garcia or James White.

[BillikenButch]

I hope the '06-07 backcourt is better than Clagett-Highmark-Walden-Turner. I think it can be.

[Box and Won]

Really, in 93-94, Harris was a non-factor. That year, it was all Donnie Dobbs and his "body love"!

[Quality Is Job 1]

1994-95: Erwin Claggett, H Waldman, Scott Highmark, Carl Turner, Carlos McCauley.

2004-05: Reggie Bryant, Anthony Drejaj, Darren Clarke, Dwayne Polk, Antwan Alexander, Luke Meyer.

I think the '05 backcourt will be a little deeper and tougher on defense. On the strength of Bryant's scoring ability, it will probably be just as effective on offense. I think the only advantage that the '95 backcourt has over the '05 backcourt is experience, particularly at the point. Waldman was a senior and Polk will be a freshman. If DP is steady and doesn't commit many turnovers, the '05 backcourt has the potential to be better than the '95 backcourt, especially if Clarke contributes. Drejaj and Alexander will be key components.

[billiken_roy]

well that has been my point all along. i readily admit that this team might have far more tools all around than either of claggett's two splendid teams. however, it seems like such a waste of an opportunity to put the "star" eggs all in the guard/wing basket. get us one killer giant and who knows how good our future might be. i have always wondered how good those claggett teams could have been if you would have had say donnie dobbs in melvin robinson's body. oh my.

[billiken_roy]

3 star, do you think newborne will be fast enough to guard the likes of garcia away from the basket? that thought scares the hell out of me. i am not sure even izik would be able to do that. we might best let an undersized drejaj or one of the incoming wings/guards take their chances on the likes of garcia at least force him to shoot the 3 instead of driving to the basket all night long.

[billiken_roy]

butch, you have to remember that the 94-95 team had SENIORS claggett, highmark, turner, and waldman. as freshman, that class (of course waldman and turner were freshman elsewhere)was 5-23 and lost some embarrassing games. yet you could see the potential. the fact that our upcoming team will be over 500 and might approach 20 wins is extremely encouraging though. i tend to agree though that the team really takes off as soon as the double l's (liddell and lisch) show up. now find an athletic inside guy with size to come with the l's, and we need to start saving money to travel to the ncaa tourney games! :-)

[billiken_roy]

before reggie had his end of the season swoon, i thought that bryant was doing things better than claggett ever did. so thicks, your point is well taken. the wild card of the claggett teams was waldman though. imo h is the best point guard in recent billiken history. no one approaches his skill and presense. newberry had the one marvelous season, but he didnt do it the way h did. if polk approaches h in production and play, we got something then. i expect polk to be faster, but the intangibles that h gave the team were incredible.

[tseugnekillib]

The "star" eggs have to (1) get here, and (2) perform at "star" level. I anticipate both happening, but until they occur, it's all hope and dreams at this point.

College coaches will tell you that good players like to play with other good players. So, hopefully, our recent recruiting success will give momentum to landing another key player or two in November.

Too bad our metro area has been historically (or so it seems) guard oriented, with big-time post-players limited in number and frequency.

I can't think of one mid to high major post player in our metro area coming out next season.

For me, the development of JJ, BH, and IV will be one of the more interesting Billiken stories to follow next season.

[3star_recruit]

What really ticked me off last year was Garcia driving to the hoop and then putting his own missed shot back in. I suspect that won't happen much with a strong offensive rebounder like Newborne on him. Garcia also won't be able to shoot over a 6-6 forward as easily as a 6'2 guard.