OT: MLS Expansion

[moytoy12]

MLS is terrible and will fail miserably because I said so

That's more like it!

[slufanskip]

I'm not going to get into all the attendance stats, but to deem soocer as failing in the US is just a ridiculous notion. I don't believe it is as popular as the NFL, MLB, or the NBA. I believe there are regions where it is more popular than the NHL and there are regions where it is not. Does anyone really watch the NHL on TV outside of a select few markets?

In one post someone wrote that the leagues have failed in the past and this one will be gone in 10 years ...I'd bet on that and give you 2-1 odds. The play is good, it's not equal to the best leagues in the world ... yes, we know that. It is improving thoough and as the USA does a better job of developing young players the MLS will continue to improve. It's not a 5 year deal ... it'a a 25 year process, but don't be surprised if in 25 years the MLS is as good as the best leagues in the world. It's been 17 years and the level of play has changed dramatically. I just saw the Galaxy completely dominate Juventis ... yes, I know Juventis is in training camp and their players aren't at full strength, but this is something that never would have happened 10 years ago. The level of play from LA in that game was pretty good. Just watch the Nat'l team and see the possesion and skill level of the individual players ... it's improved and it will continue to improve.

Discount it if you like ... but soccer is here to stay and it will continue to improve.

[Box and Won]

MLS is terrible and will fail miserably because I said so

I want a Major League Lacrosse franchise.

[JMM28]

I want a Major League Lacrosse franchise.

[moytoy12]

I want a Major League Lacrosse franchise.

We went to watch a lot of the professional indoor lacrosse games in Denver and they were awesome. It was like an 80's hair band concert with 15,000 of your closest white trash friends. Best $5 ticket I've ever purchased.

I couldn't get into that foo foo outdoor lacrosse league though. Given your commie ways, it's no surprise you want a team.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Where would a mls team play at Busch Park?

It's now Scott Gallagher-owned. No more Busch involvement. I drive past it everyday going to work. Not sure it could hold MLS crowds.

[billikenfan05]

There were plans drawn up to put a stadium near Union Station... Busch Soccer Park would not be feasible.

On a SLU related note....I wish they'd upgrade Hermann to make it more of a closed off facility.

[davidnark]

Just watch the Nat'l team and see the possesion and skill level of the individual players ... it's improved and it will continue to improve.

Discount it if you like ... but soccer is here to stay and it will continue to improve.

This past month, the US "B" team had better, more purposeful possession than I have ever seen. I counted 22 consecutive passes that led to a nice offensive opportunity in one game. I know the competition largely stunk, but it didn't seem to matter in the past. Soccer is improving exponentially in this country, and the improvement will only continue to accelerate.

[slufanskip]

This past month, the US "B" team had better, more purposeful possession than I have ever seen. I counted 22 consecutive passes that led to a nice offensive opportunity in one game. I know the competition largely stunk, but it didn't seem to matter in the past. Soccer is improving exponentially in this country, and the improvement will only continue to accelerate

And this is why the MLS and soccer will continue to grow in the US

[billikens747]

Good week for MLS. Dempsey to Seattle, and looks like Omar Gonzalez is going to sign DP tag with LA Galaxy. Was rumored that he would go to Europe.

[For-DaLove]

Good week for MLS. Dempsey to Seattle, and looks like Omar Gonzalez is going to sign DP tag with LA Galaxy. Was rumored that he would go to Europe.

Both of those guys need to be playing in Europe, thus is the double edged sword between trying to build a league domestically and trying to win on the international stage

[moytoy12]

Both of those guys need to be playing in Europe, thus is the double edged sword between trying to build a league domestically and trying to win on the international stage

Omar, yes. Dempsey, no.

[billikens747]

Both of those guys need to be playing in Europe, thus is the double edged sword between trying to build a league domestically and trying to win on the international stage

Dempsey? Absolutely not. His role at Spurs was diminishing and was not going to get any playing time next year if you look at who the Spurs acquired in the offseason. No comprable teams were necessarily knocking on the doors. Would moving to a lesser team be much better than MLS? Possibly, but at Seattle he gets to play with 2 other WCQ team members. At Seattle he gets to rejuvenate his career and go on loan during the offseason (this was part of his contract). At Seattle he makes ~8 mil a year.

Omar? I would agree that from a USMNT standpoint, but it all depends on the types of offers he was getting. No point in making a lateral move. They did just beat a Juventus team pretty handily.

[For-DaLove]

Omar, yes. Dempsey, no.

Tottenham might not have been the right fit now but he's 100% should be playing for a team like Fulham. I'll say this much, Jozy's preparation for the World Cup will be better than Dempsey's.

But please try to explain why Dempsey should be playing against MLS competition instead of EPL competition

[Littlebill]

But please try to explain why Dempsey should be playing against MLS competition instead of EPL competition

This. I don't know how someone can defend CD's move from a competition standpoint.

[moytoy12]

Tottenham might not have been the right fit now but he's 100% should be playing for a team like Fulham. I'll say this much, Jozy's preparation for the World Cup will be better than Dempsey's.

But please try to explain why Dempsey should be playing against MLS competition instead of EPL competition

You assume he had somewhere to transfer to and would get the same amount of PT. Regardless, he doesn't need to improve his skills. he doesnt need the experience of the EPL. He has the work ethic to maintain his sharpness. He will likely need to carry more of the burden in MLS. And, oh yea, there's this Exhibit A called Landon Donovan. MLS competition hasn't impaired Donovan's ability; he looked better than I've ever seen at the gold cup.

Finally, Dempsey will likely also go on loan to the EPL prior to the World Cup.

Dempsey will be fine for the WC, assuming no injury.

[For-DaLove]

You assume he had somewhere to transfer to and would get the same amount of PT.

He scored 7 goals last year in sporadic time for the Spurs. He definitely could have gotten a starting spot in the EPL.

Regardless, he doesn't need to improve his skills.

What? Don't be ignorant.

he doesnt need the experience of the EPL. He has the work ethic to maintain his sharpness.

Again, what? He has had the best form of his career in the past 2 years and it's because he has been challenged by the EPL.

And, oh yea, there's this Exhibit A called Landon Donovan. MLS competition hasn't impaired Donovan's ability; he looked better than I've ever seen at the gold cup.

"Exhibit A" is the perfect example of what can happen if you're a good player and don't continue to challenge yourself. You're lying to yourself if try to act like Donovan reached his full potential by staying in the MLS.

A player like Donovan should dominate the competition he saw in the Gold Cup. (And he did)

Finally, Dempsey will likely also go on loan to the EPL prior to the World Cup.

What's the point of saying this? If this matters then he would be better off spending the whole season there.

[For-DaLove]

Let me add one more thing - Klinsmann has been adamant about wanting his players to challenge themselves in Europe. He even made a point of calling out Dempsey for ONLY playing for Fulham. But you're right moytoy, this was a great move for Dempsey and the national team.

"[Dempsey] hasn't made s---. You play for Fulham? Yeah, so? Show me you can play for a Champions League team, and then you start on a Champions League team," Klinsmann says. "There is always another level. If you one day reach the highest level then you've got to confirm it, every year."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323940004578258072832363036.html

[moytoy12]

He scored 7 goals last year in sporadic time for the Spurs. He definitely could have gotten a starting spot in the EPL.

What? Don't be ignorant.

Again, what? He has had the best form of his career in the past 2 years and it's because he has been challenged by the EPL.

"Exhibit A" is the perfect example of what can happen if you're a good player and don't continue to challenge yourself. You're lying to yourself if try to act like Donovan reached his full potential by staying in the MLS.

A player like Donovan should dominate the competition he saw in the Gold Cup. (And he did)

What's the point of saying this? If this matters then he would be better off spending the whole season there.

Yes, he has the ability to play and start in the EPL. But were there any teams willing to pay a $9MM transfer fee + salary for a 30 year old american? Or was he going to be forced to stay at Tottenham where he wasn't in the team's plans?

At 30, Dempsey is what he is. Saying he doesn't need to improve wasn't the right choice of words, but I believe he is what he is at this point. He needs to stay sharp. He knows what it's like to play at a world class level, he needs to maintain that work ethic. But I don't believe that playing in the EPL at this point is going to take him to another level. Whether the step down in class to MLS will lessen his sharpness is a fair question. I don't believe it will.

Good point about the loan. My point was about the move in general. He will still have a chance to keep fit with an EPL club during the winter break.

[moytoy12]

Let me add one more thing - Klinsmann has been adamant about wanting his players to challenge themselves in Europe. He even made a point of calling out Dempsey for ONLY playing for Fulham. But you're right moytoy, this was a great move for Dempsey and the national team.

"[Dempsey] hasn't made s---. You play for Fulham? Yeah, so? Show me you can play for a Champions League team, and then you start on a Champions League team," Klinsmann says. "There is always another level. If you one day reach the highest level then you've got to confirm it, every year."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323940004578258072832363036.html

I didn't call this a great move for Dempsey or the national team, however, I'm not nearly as negative about it as you. I think he'll be fine. I think he'll still perform at a level we are used to during the WC. I don't think the USMNT is going to suffer nearly as much as you seem to think.

This is a great move for MLS.

[slufanskip]

Here is a good article on Dempsey and the move. I agree with his take

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/8/5/4590402/clint-dempsey-seattle-sounders-us-soccer-mls

[kwyjibo]

Here is a good article on Dempsey and the move. I agree with his take

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/8/5/4590402/clint-dempsey-seattle-sounders-us-soccer-mls

Anyone who uses the term "Eurosnob" is perpetuating a really pathetic and ugly myth. There really is no such thing (or you could do the define a word trick to make it true de facto--Am I a "Missouisnob" for liking the Billikens?). The fact that the "writer" (sarcastic air quotes intended) rambled on about without a point (which is funny because people who use that word seldom have a point beyond a pathetic and false sense of victimization). If anything wrong is with the MLS it is NOT non-MLS fans who look down on them but the attitude (inverted by the fiction of the "Eurosnob") of some weird shame they project on fictional others. The MLS is what it is and it is generally fine (I hate the mugging, pushing, blocking but that is my "Billikensnob" showing). Stop the navel gazing and whining and root for your team.

I am glad Dempsey is going to Seattle. I like the guy and wish him well. Hell, I like a lot of things the Sounders have done and wish them well. Dempsey should provide some exciting play.

[slufanskip]

Anyone who uses the term "Eurosnob" is perpetuating a really pathetic and ugly myth. There really is no such thing (or you could do the define a word trick to make it true de facto--Am I a "Missouisnob" for liking the Billikens?). The fact that the "writer" (sarcastic air quotes intended) rambled on about without a point (which is funny because people who use that word seldom have a point beyond a pathetic and false sense of victimization). If anything wrong is with the MLS it is NOT non-MLS fans who look down on them but the attitude (inverted by the fiction of the "Eurosnob") of some weird shame they project on fictional others. The MLS is what it is and it is generally fine (I hate the mugging, pushing, blocking but that is my "Billikensnob" showing). Stop the navel gazing and whining and root for your team.

I am glad Dempsey is going to Seattle. I like the guy and wish him well. Hell, I like a lot of things the Sounders have done and wish them well. Dempsey should provide some exciting play.

You can go to the Amsterdam Pub here in St. Louis and talk to dozens of people during any EPL game and understand exactly what he means by Eurosnob.

However, my agreement with him was with his opinion that Dempsey going to Seattle isn't really going to hurt him

[kwyjibo]

You can go to the Amsterdam Pub here in St. Louis and talk to dozens of people during any EPL game and understand exactly what he means by Eurosnob.

However, my agreement with him was with his opinion that Dempsey going to Seattle isn't really going to hurt him

Really, what makes this diverse set of people all uniformly the exact same "Eurosnob"? If I go to Curley Lambeau's pub in Green Bay and watch a Packer game, are they "Cheesehead" Snobs or "FootballSnobs"? If I go to a Greek pizza pub in Springfield, MA and they are all yelling about PAOK vs. Aris are they "GreekoSnobs"? [Hint: to me they are just Packer fans and Greek Soccer fans].

I personally do not follow the EPL much but when I went to the Phoenix Landing in Cambridge, MA to watch EPL games back in the day the subject of the MLS or American soccer never (EVER) came up. It was however a good time even without a rooting interest.

[slufanskip]

Really, what makes this diverse set of people all uniformly the exact same "Eurosnob"? If I go to Curley Lambeau's pub in Green Bay and watch a Packer game, are they "Cheesehead" Snobs or "FootballSnobs"? If I go to a Greek pizza pub in Springfield, MA and they are all yelling about PAOK vs. Aris are they "GreekoSnobs"? [Hint: to me they are just Packer fans and Greek Soccer fans].

I personally do not follow the EPL much but when I went to the Phoenix Landing in Cambridge, MA to watch EPL games back in the day the subject of the MLS or American soccer never (EVER) came up. It was however a good time even without a rooting interest.

I think you're being a bit over the top. Of course the term is a generalization and it's not so much that they like the EPL or European soccer in general it's their complete disdain for American soccer. I've been called a beer snob and the term probably fits, however, over the last 10 years there are many young professional (don't want to say yuppie) who take my beer snobbery to a whole new level ...Yes Pistol, that's you in case you weren't sure.

And if the Packer fan happened to think that all football besides the Pack was of lesser quality and beneath the Packers or beneath him to even watch ... Yes, he'd be a cheeseheadsnob. Btw ... cheeseheadsnob is all one word