Taj79 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 So who is this guy and why does verbalcommits.com show him transferring off our roster (as a senior-to-be, no less) to the University of New Orleans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenFriar Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Maybe it is SELU (south east louisiana u) They call them SLU down there in Hammond, LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 So who is this guy and why does verbalcommits.com show him transferring off our roster (as a senior-to-be, no less) to the University of New Orleans? Relax...he's a former walkon. Never played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Relax...he's a former walkon. Never played. Isn't he Matt Dickey's cousin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Isn't he Matt Dickey's cousin? Rumored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Seeing as f05 is so connected, I believe him. But still I find it odd that this kid makes that listing and yet he's not on a single roster as posted at the offical SLU basketball web site. They list LePak, and Duff, and Remke. The even list red-shirts like McBroom, Drew and ET. Just found it starnge --- and for a guy who follows all things Billiken, it just goes to show that no I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Verbalcommits seems like a cool idea with a lot of potential. That said I would be careful to lend the site to much credence just yet. It's not like they have inside info it's basically just a compilation of information on the web. Granted, that could be a pretty useful task. Max Banchy is not something worth worrying about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 I'm not "worrying" about Max Banchy as much as I am worrying about whether to accept verbalcommits as a reliable recruiting information source. For example, I too applaud Pistol for his ongoing recruiting updates but let's say that some or even most of his info come from a corrupt source, like verbalcommits (I'm not saying that here PistolPete, just as an example). That to me means garbage in, garbage out. Something like the Max Banchy stuff just seems to start to corrupt the valdiity of all information found there. Which would be too bad because I like what they offer and go there almost daily. Most of you guys weren't around for the "recruiting guru" incident some years ago. I forget the kid's name, but he was passing himself off as a college basketball "insider" ala Clark Francis, Dave Telep and Paul Biancardi. Turns out he was a 15-year-old kid in Indiana with limited actual knowledge (he did NOT go see the kids play) passing himself off as something greater. And then there was old friend V-time who kind of, sort of did the same thing here with essentially St. Louis-local talent. Damn .. I really like(d) verbalcommits.com too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Verbal Commits seems like a fairly new recruiting database, from what I can tell. It hasn't been on my radar at all until recently. The people there seem to do a fairly good job of linking schools with names when an offer is made. There are a couple issues I have found with the site: -Like I said, the offer information is generally good; however, when an offer is no longer valid or a guy is no longer interested, they aren't always aware. So there are some stale offers on just about every team's page. -It's noble to shade the names in terms of active roster players, transfers, high interest, low, etc. but it's very hard to determine high or medium or low interest among currently offered recruits. For instance, they have Daishon Knight as high and both Randy Onwuasor and Tanner Lancona - our top two targets - as medium interest. -Guys like Max Banchy can muddy the waters. When you're going beyond scholarship players, a lot changes with walk-ons year-to-year and typical fans aren't keeping up with it. Other than that, I like what they're doing. As for how I incorporate VC into my breakdowns, it's just one of many places I'll go for information on SLU's offers and an individual player's offers. I know that it isn't perfect and wouldn't use it as my only source for anyone. My searches always start with Google and use a combination of: -Scout -Rivals -Google News search -Verbal Commits -MaxPreps (which usually has nothing of value) -Other recruiting sites (some are regional, some are clearly paid for by the recruits' families - for example, Lancona has a page at student-athleteshowcase.com, or sasprospects.com) -National recruiting blogs, as well as school- and conference-specific ones -Message boards -Twitter (unfiltered direct statements from recruits, and less creepy than Facebook) -Local news articles, stats, etc. -YouTube And that's about it. No single recruiting source - even the pay ones - are 100% dependable alone. You have to do a little legwork. The good news is it's possible now and doesn't take much time. Even a few years ago, there are names on our recruiting list who I'd be completely in the dark on; now with Twitter, a constantly updated Google News result page, and so forth, we have a scary amount of information available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Taj, You have to understand how computers (algorithms) "report" the information to understand Max Banchy's role at SLU. VerbalCommits is not really a "personned" site. At best Max Banchy was around SLU for a year (2009-10) hoping to walk-on (I have no idea if he ever practiced as he was also "hurt" at some point in that year). Verbalcommits is a set of algorithms that repackages information from Rivals and Scout (maybe others). They probably just use school rosters to confirm that information after the fact but if someone is reported by Scout and Rivals to be going/committed to a school that player is tracked at that site as "belonging" to that school in some degree for 4-5 years. It is not "edited" by humans, only (sloppy) algorithms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Verbal Commits seems like a fairly new recruiting database, from what I can tell. It hasn't been on my radar at all until recently. The people there seem to do a fairly good job of linking schools with names when an offer is made. There are a couple issues I have found with the site: I have used it for over a year. I think it formats information in a nice way. It reports nothing; it only uses algorithms to pick up info from Rivals and Scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I have used it for over a year. I think it formats information in a nice way. It reports nothing; it only uses algorithms to pick up info from Rivals and Scout. Right- which makes it both useful and imperfect at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 @Pistol & kwyjibo -- as usual, thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It is not "edited" by humans, only (sloppy) algorithms. I'm not disagreeing that most of the information is compiled by by algorithms. However, there is an element of human "editing" involved with VerbalCommits.com. If you go to a team page, at the top of the "scholarship chart" there is a "chart options" section where there is a "submit correction" button. If you click it gives you a form to fill out with your name, email, the correction, and a link that validates your correction. I submitted a correction when they did not have Jared Drew listed as a red shirt and I got an email back from what I assume was an actual person because it didn't sound like a robot sent it. I deleted the email, but it basically said thanks and that they would look into it and make a correction. Therefore, I think VerbalCommits.com uses an algorithm, but there is also a Wikipedia sort of element to it where fans can help correct any mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulPettengill Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Hey Billikens, My name is Paul Pettengill, and I started Verbal Commits a little over a year ago as a fan frustrated at how tough it was to keep up with recruiting for my alma mater, NC State. Initially I wanted the site to be a data aggregator of all the information out there presented in a clear manner with links back to the source of the information gathered. We try to provide the source of our information in every update. In this case it was the information on the New Orleans roster that was our external source. One of my main concerns for the site is that it is accurate and reliable, and doesn't participate in speculation. Until a couple of months ago, I was the only person working on Verbal Commits. This is why I wrote algorithms to try to bring in information from around the web on offers and commitments, as there was no way for me to keep up with all of the information personally, especially not while also trying to build the site. One of the automations I created was the "Recent Activity" section on each team's page, so it would be easy for fans to see what has been going on with their school. Unfortunately when we were creating a new team page for New Orleans due to their move back into Division 1, we saw that Max Banchy's New Orleans bio had him as a former Billiken, so when we attempted to create an accurate profile for Max Banchy to include his time SLU, this information then showed up on your team page. We've since amended Max Banchy's profile so that it no longer appears on SLU's chart. Typically we indicate (FWO) next to former walk-ons who leave programs. However in this case since he never played for SLU, and wasn't listed on the official rosters, I think that removing his name rather than adding (FWO) seemed more appropriate. I really appreciate the candor of this discussion. I do think we have a lot of room for improvement on many fronts. In terms of humanizing the site, in the past two months, we've brought on two amazing individuals, Nathan LeClair and Jordan Kendall, who have taken on the role of actively engaging with College, HS and AAU coaches. They've also been attempting to keep up with all of the major twitter and news sources to help with some of the stale issues you've been encountering. In terms of interest levels High,Medium,Low, we try to take the highest reported interest level we find for a player and a school. I'm hoping that moving forward we can more actively engage with the players themselves to find their interest levels in the schools recruiting them. As RUBillsFan mentioned, we do have a feedback site, and it is answered by real live human beings. Outside of a glitch a few months back where the feedback wasn't getting to us, we're pretty good about getting things updated and getting back to you. I'd love to hear other ways we can improve the site. Best of luck to your Billikens on the court, and on the recruiting trail! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Thanks for the info Paul. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Wow. Great stuff, and good luck with the site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Paul, you are the Matt Dickey of algorithm-based college basketball recruiting site administrators. That's the highest honor a Billiken fan can bestow on an algorithm-based college basketball recruiting site administrator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 paul thanks for visiting and explaining. that was a very nice gesture. i for one have marked vebalcommits.com as a favorite because of you taking the time to visit billikens.com and explain. thanks so much and good luck with your site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Now that was a class move. Thanks Paul. I've already admitted I'm hooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 it is well organized and obviously they eat and breathe college basketball maybe microsoft will buy them up in haste to copy another good thing before it eats away at their turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulPettengill Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Thanks for all the kind words on the site! Feel free to email me directly at [email protected] if you ever see anything off, or if you have any suggestions for improvements. In the meantime, I've got about 50 or so features on my to do list that I need to get working on to help make the site the best it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 That's awesome Paul. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikens747 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Thanks Paul for the info. Site has become the only recruiting site I check now along with Twitter. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRN Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Thanks for your work and sharing it with everyone. It is a good service with a different niche than the large recruiting sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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