kshoe Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Good questions. What I've always done with this is if I can verify through an independent source, ie a recruits name is on rivals list for SLU along with Scout's or if a newspaper article from a recruits hometown reports on said recruit and SLU I consider the info not contained anymore and I feel free to comment on it here. This is also applies to information I verify personally, if I get it myself and say who I spoke to then the "code" doesn't apply anymore. I don't think the existence of the Scout site has killed any recruiting talk on this board. We never have had that much. I used to report on games or events I attended here and give some personal views on local players and possible recruits. These posts were met with a litany of so & so sucks, who cares, and you don't know anything about basketball. I just quit doing it. We used to have a lot more posters who would evaluate and give their thoughts on recruits, mostly local, and one way or another they were run off the board. To further Torch's point, I think RM's style of recruiting is not terribly conducive to lots of billikenboard chatter. He is fairly tight to the vest on who they are tracking (why publicize your top priorities so others can poach) and he doesn't recruit all that many local kids. Since we don't know who he is recruiting and have never seen the players he is recruiting play, its pretty difficult to get much of a discussion going. It was different with prior coaches as they all had a St. Louis focus to their recruiting efforts and you could debate all day about the merits of offering a player, how he would translate to college etc. because many people had seen them play. Even if BW came on here today and listed every player we are going after, I doubt there would be ton of discussion because few have seen them play. Sure we'd get the usual "he sounds like Drew Diener" comments if he's white and can shoot and people have a negative outlook or "he sounds like Kevin Lisch" if they have a positive outlook, but none of it would have any real value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Skip, this actually an interesting thought - one that companies face all the time, do they charge a high price for something and try to make it that way or a lower price and try to make it with volume. I see your point that BW may be better off trying to build his brand rather than making it something that is a high priced activity. For me, I simply do not have the time nor the keen interest to check these kinds of websites on a regular basis 12 months a year so I have tended not to get involved with them. However, I am reminded of a friend of mine (in the business) who asked me many years ago at what price point would I be willing to pay for an oil change rather than do it myself - for those of you that this sounds odd to it was very common 25 or more years ago to change your own oil - anyway, his point was if it was cheap enough would I do this. He was absolutely correct, there is always a price point that people would be willing to change their behavior. I guess I would answer your question with a qualified yes - $90 is not an enormous amount of money but enough that I would think twice about it - where is the price point that I would be more casual - is it $29.99, maybe but the info would have to be worth it as Roy indicated. Maybe a solution to this is to have BW offer a free subscription for 3 months that requires your credit card to activate but allowing you to actively drop out if after the 3 months you are not satisfied. It is hard to get people to take a flyer for $90 so he has set the bar high for himself in my opinion. I do agree that while I am generally content to wait for info I do think that the board could be more forthcoming with some of the bigger stuff - like coaches being hired but once again BW and his group of subscribers can do what they want. I think I remember Scout doing that very promo back in Nate's day. It wasn't enough for me to pony up then but then again I still change my own oil. As to oil changes, it nice to know what you are putting into your crankcase and what kind of filter you are getting. It's also a good opportunity to take a look at your brakes and hoses and exhaust system, rather than counting on joe bog-o-donuts at the Jiffy Lube to point out potential problems. Maybe we need a "who changes their own oil" poll....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You can subscribe one month at a time to the website too. He had a buy one get 2 months free deal last month too I think. In my opinion the information is worth it and he has all the post game interview videos during the season. Now may not be the best time to subscribe as recruiting rumors are dying down and the season is far away still but the information as a whole is worth it for me. It's not just recruiting news. He has stuff about the coaches and players too. Also you get some good discussions on there without all the arguing over the same topics. I like billikens.com better and I love the discussions on here, but I do think his site is good. $7.50 a month is a lot, and I might get made fun of or whatever for saying this, but if you buy one less beer at a game a month, you could use that money to pay for a subscription. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You can subscribe one month at a time to the website too. He had a buy one get 2 months free deal last month too I think. In my opinion the information is worth it and he has all the post game interview videos during the season. Now may not be the best time to subscribe as recruiting rumors are dying down and the season is far away still but the information as a whole is worth it for me. It's not just recruiting news. He has stuff about the coaches and players too. Also you get some good discussions on there without all the arguing over the same topics. I like billikens.com better and I love the discussions on here, but I do think his site is good. $7.50 a month is a lot, and I might get made fun of or whatever for saying this, but if you buy one less beer at a game a month, you could use that money to pay for a subscription. 13, how about you detail for us the information you have rec'd that makes it worth the cost? it would take an immense amount of first time facts for me to accept that price in advance. so i am intrigued by "as a whole it is worth it to me", means to you. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 In regards to Torch's point about discussion. I agree with him and know a certain ex poster who follows Juco pretty closely but doesn't post because people who have never seen the kid he's writing about play have to be know it all's. If as a whole we'd just take in and be thankful for the posts giving us info on any potential player or recruit we'd be getting more of it. Many know who I'm talking about, and I sure wish he'd come back. Not just a good poster but a really good guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Regarding recruiting info, ....... outside of us on the board, perhaps there is not a lot of demand for Billiken recruiting news. -i think this is the unfortunate truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Roy. First of all. Sorry for never introducing myself at one of the games. Without giving away any information, reasons that it is worth it to me in no particular order: 1. Being able to watch the players and coaches in the post game interviews is great. For us who are big billiken fans, you get a lot more out of that than what Timmerman puts in the paper. TT does a great job and I love his day after blog thing. But its interesting to hear everything that is said. 2. You hear who we are recruiting. You get quotes from that player on the recruiting process. We are looking at multiple recruits that no other website (even the main scout.com website) knows about. It would be nice for fans on here to know that so that they don't act like we aren't recruiting certain positions. 3. Not that many people talk on the board there but we get really good discussions from time to time. There are no trolls on that board and you can actually have serious discussions. Would be even better if guys like roy, 05, jbizz, alumnifan, etc got involved too. 4. Benseems to be in constant touch with the staff. He's had reports on a player or 2 recently that has made strong progress this offseason. 5. He at times has scheduling updates but he usually shares that with everyone on twitter and there hasn't been a ton of that either. 6. The coaching situation is interesting. The unique reports like that are always good. 7. He also has lots of just random stories from time time. The story on Conklin's future is good. He had a really good one on the teams academics earlier. You'd be surprised who works the hardest in the classroom according to the coaches. 8. He does previews with the scout rep from other teams before big games. Good to get 2 expert views on the games. There are more things that I can't. Think of now. Id suggest a 1 month subscription for everyone. Maybe Ben would have more stories and stuff in that month. Its yard to do now but the site (just like this site) is better during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 In regards to Torch's point about discussion. I agree with him and know a certain ex poster who follows Juco pretty closely but doesn't post because people who have never seen the kid he's writing about play have to be know it all's. If as a whole we'd just take in and be thankful for the posts giving us info on any potential player or recruit we'd be getting more of it. Many know who I'm talking about, and I sure wish he'd come back. Not just a good poster but a really good guy -i agree we have run off some qualtiy posters and wish they would come back, although i don't know who you are referencing with this post (and don't need to) -i hope if they are still reading they would consider coming back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 A couple of things. First, let me be clear that I don't subscribe. Mainly because I don't need whatever information he may post. Secondly, can Ben determine the price he charges? I don't know, but my assumption is that Scout determines it. Thirdly, $90 a year, or whatever it is, is not a lot. I don't care If I'm stepping on any toes by saying that. Go to McDonalds one less time a month or buy one less 6 pack and you can easily pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 A couple of things. First, let me be clear that I don't subscribe. Mainly because I don't need whatever information he may post. Secondly, can Ben determine the price he charges? I don't know, but my assumption is that Scout determines it. Thirdly, $90 a year, or whatever it is, is not a lot. I don't care If I'm stepping on any toes by saying that. Go to McDonalds one less time a month or buy one less 6 pack and you can easily pay for it. So is $7.50 for a gallon of gas a lot? How about a gallon of milk? A movie ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 So is $7.50 for a gallon of gas a lot? How about a gallon of milk? A movie ticket?Those are completely different situations, outside of maybe a movie ticket. The reason movies may seem expensive now days (I rarely go) is because there's other options such as Netflix. If in fact he's providing unique information that can't be found elsewhere, then no, $7.50 is not a lot per month. The site could be looked at as a leisure activity. If you can't find $7.50 of other leisure activities monthly to cut back on I feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 It's good that we have you to help us out with what is a good value for each of us. Maybe you could charge for that service. But you can't get the movie on Netflix when it's out at the Theater. So do you not go because it's not a good value for you at $6? Would you go more if you could go to first run movies and get the ticket for $3? How about $2, how about the $1 you pay at redbox? I bet you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 It's good that we have you to help us out with what is a good value for each of us. Maybe you could charge for that service. But you can't get the movie on Netflix when it's out at the Theater. So do you not go because it's not a good value for you at $6? Would you go more if you could go to first run movies and get the ticket for $3? How about $2, how about the $1 you pay at redbox? I bet you would. Sure I would go to more if it was the same price as the alternative. The value of a movie to me is the same the day it comes out as it is 9 months later. What alternative is there to Ben's site? You guys obviously find value in the information or you wouldn't be bitching about the price. I'm not here to decide what anything is worth. But I will tell you that $7.50 isn't a lot, especially when there's no alternative for the information. If you don't value the information (I don't), fine, don't get on here and complain. Truth of the matter is that any big information will get reported. Do you guys ever eat fast food or have a few drinks? I'm serious in asking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Sure I would go to more if it was the same price as the alternative. The value of a movie to me is the same the day it comes out as it is 9 months later. What alternative is there to Ben's site? You guys obviously find value in the information or you wouldn't be bitching about the price. I'm not here to decide what anything is worth. But I will tell you that $7.50 isn't a lot, especially when there's no alternative for the information. If you don't value the information (I don't), fine, don't get on here and complain. Truth of the matter is that any big information will get reported. Do you guys ever eat fast food or have a few drinks? I'm serious in asking that. you ever pay a mortgage, car payment, pay your kid's interest on their student loan while they are still in school, pay your billiken club fee, donate money to the charity, pay your utilities, pay your property taxes, pay your amex bill, replace the lawn mower, pay the deductible on the hail damaged roof, buy a new suit, trip to sam's, etc. the point is, as a student, you have no idea. you equate making it worthwhile with skipping mcdonalds? hillarious. you will soon find out the joys of the real world. that said, it isnt the money. you are correct that in the scheme of things it isnt much. but i just got a problem paying in advance for information you dont even know will come. especially when the site has advertising on it as well i dont care if the "owner" of the site gets any of the advertising or not. if he negotiated a bad deal in getting on the site, that somehow has to be transferred to the viewer as an additional cost to be a "subscriber"? as i said many posts ago in this thread, i am glad steve doesnt charge us. but if he did, i guarantee you i would find the value of our discussions and much more diverse family here at billikens.com the much better buy if i had to make the choice. second, while 13 had a very nice list of positives on his perceived worth of his membership, i still dont see where those supposed perks couldnt happen right here. and as others have brought out, we had the people on this board that did give us the recruiting tidbits only to be chased off by posters. the biggest percieved positive seems to be the recruiting buzz, but since we dont recruit 3 and 4 star recruits, and we dont recruit locally, nobody really has a concept of the names and information beyond the physical dimensions and the competition that is typically listed for the recruits in question. to be honest, when i see our competition is the likes of loyola, ohio, and toledo for a recruit, that really doesnt make me feel any better. i am glad all of your subscribers are happy with your little club of exclusiveness. but you obviously arent convincing the rest of us. let the thread die. it is pretty obvious you in the knows arent sharing your knowledge. so we are content to wait until October to see who are coaches are. i think it is time we move onto other subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't especially value the info, but like anything else if the price was what I considered a good deal, I would probably get it. At $7.50 I don't. What is so hard to understand? The kicker to your movie statement is "value to me" Can you realize that other people pay more because it's worth it to see it earlier. I doubt you don't go because you can't afford it ...or you could just drink one less beer or take one less trip to McDonalds ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 you ever pay a mortgage, car payment, pay your kid's interest on their student loan while they are still in school, pay your billiken club fee, donate money to the charity, pay your utilities, pay your property taxes, pay your amex bill, replace the lawn mower, pay the deductible on the hail damaged roof, buy a new suit, trip to sam's, etc. the point is, as a student, you have no idea. you equate making it worthwhile with skipping mcdonalds? hillarious. you will soon find out the joys of the real world. that said, it isnt the money. you are correct that in the scheme of things it isnt much. but i just got a problem paying in advance for information you dont even know will come. especially when the site has advertising on it as well i dont care if the "owner" of the site gets any of the advertising or not. if he negotiated a bad deal in getting on the site, that somehow has to be transferred to the viewer as an additional cost to be a "subscriber"? as i said many posts ago in this thread, i am glad steve doesnt charge us. but if he did, i guarantee you i would find the value of our discussions and much more diverse family here at billikens.com the much better buy if i had to make the choice. second, while 13 had a very nice list of positives on his perceived worth of his membership, i still dont see where those supposed perks couldnt happen right here. and as others have brought out, we had the people on this board that did give us the recruiting tidbits only to be chased off by posters. the biggest percieved positive seems to be the recruiting buzz, but since we dont recruit 3 and 4 star recruits, and we dont recruit locally, nobody really has a concept of the names and information beyond the physical dimensions and the competition that is typically listed for the recruits in question. to be honest, when i see our competition is the likes of loyola, ohio, and toledo for a recruit, that really doesnt make me feel any better. i am glad all of your subscribers are happy with your little club of exclusiveness. but you obviously arent convincing the rest of us. let the thread die. it is pretty obvious you in the knows arent sharing your knowledge. so we are content to wait until October to see who are coaches are. i think it is time we move onto other subjects. If its not about the fee then why bring up all of those other expenses. I have plenty of expenses. You have no idea if I'm a student or not. The reason I used McDonald's as an example is because it's comparable in price. That's all. I agree with you. Whatever information that may be on there isn't a necessity for me to read. Like I said above, the big information always comes forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I am just curious, who are these great posters who were "chased" off? Are people that sensitive that they leave when there is a difference of opinion? I guess some people are, but I just don't get that. Some posters can get a little worked up and express their disagreements very strongly, but it seems like more of a case of some people having thin-skin as opposed to good posters truly being chased off the board. The only time there are organized movements to run people off the board, it typically involves getting rid of a troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 If its not about the fee then why bring up all of those other expenses. I have plenty of expenses. You have no idea if I'm a student or not. The reason I used McDonald's as an example is because it's comparable in price. That's all. I agree with you. Whatever information that may be on there isn't a necessity for me to read. Like I said above, the big information always comes forward. I find it a little humorous that you compare McDonalds after staing that my comparison to a gallon of milk was a bad comparison. We all determine individually what is a good value to us for our money. I may think $6 to see a movie first run is something that is worth it to me, but $7.50 for a scout.com subscription isn't. If the movie wen't up to $10 I may not think it's as good a value and may not go as often, and it probably wouldn't be because I couldn't collect enough aluminum cans for the extra $4. If the movie went down to $3 I'd probably go more often, I could use the savings for a big mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I am just curious, who are these great posters who were "chased" off? Are people that sensitive that they leave when there is a difference of opinion? I guess some people are, but I just don't get that. Some posters can get a little worked up and express their disagreements very strongly, but it seems like more of a case of some people having thin-skin as opposed to good posters truly being chased off the board. The only time there are organized movements to run people off the board, it typically involves getting rid of a troll. It's not about "thick skin" maybe some people just tire of idiots while others are able to laugh it off or enjoy the back and forth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I find it a little humorous that you compare McDonalds after staing that my comparison to a gallon of milk was a bad comparison. We all determine individually what is a good value to us for our money. I may think $6 to see a movie first run is something that is worth it to me, but $7.50 for a scout.com subscription isn't. If the movie wen't up to $10 I may not think it's as good a value and may not go as often, and it probably wouldn't be because I couldn't collect enough aluminum cans for the extra $4. If the movie went down to $3 I'd probably go more often, I could use the savings for a big mac PM me your address and I'll send the $7.50 in the mail so you can afford a month. I didn't view milk as a good example because I think everyone can agree its a lot more of a necessity than fast food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I just renewed my subscription to ESPN insider at 30 for the year. I wouldn't have done so at $90. Does the 90 give you access to all scout sites or just the Billiken info? I can understand that price point, but still don't care to spend 100 on it. I would be on board at 30-50 most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 PM me your address and I'll send the $7.50 in the mail so you can afford a month. I didn't view milk as a good example because I think everyone can agree its a lot more of a necessity than fast food. You don't make a good case for a SLU education being a decent value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I just renewed my subscription to ESPN insider at 30 for the year. I wouldn't have done so at $90. Does the 90 give you access to all scout sites or just the Billiken info? I can understand that price point, but still don't care to spend 100 on it. I would be on board at 30-50 most likely. Eat less McDonalds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You don't make a good case for a SLU education being a decent valueHmm glad to see you are now making this about SLU. You aren't an alum, correct? Good. Maybe if you would've went to SLU you'd be able to afford that subscription. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You don't make a good case for a SLU education being a decent valueIt's hard to justify that with any argument. Almost no college education these days, if you have to pay sticker price, is a good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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