MusicCityBilliken Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Adding to this, in November our offense looked the best it's ever been. Does anyone else agree that it's not looked as crisp since that time? I think the reason is early in the year there's not a lot of game film to go around so it's almost as if you're running it in practice, but once people see it they just know how to defend it better. Prior to the UMASS game I recall Kellogg saying, we had a week off and we had a week of studying the Bills past game tapes. Back in November, when we played Washington and in Anaheim, many of those teams did no preparation for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU7881 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Mediocrity can be defined in a number of ways. Among A-10 teams, we are 9th in scoring offense, 11th in rebounding offense,8th in assists, and 5th in scoring percentage. We miss too many easy shots and thats not in dispute, and we're just okay from the line.We do have good balance in terms of inside/outside play, and 3 point percentage. But on the whole, I would say the offense is mediocre. Thank goodness for the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The whole issue with people talking about our offense is too many people pay attention to counting stats. It is pretty funny Bernie is falling into that trap, because he rails against people who do this in baseball. Our offense is actually above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The whole issue with people talking about our offense is too many people pay attention to counting stats. It is pretty funny Bernie is falling into that trap, because he rails against people who do this in baseball. Our offense is actually above average. imo bernie is not a basketball guy so i give him some slack for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 imo bernie is not a basketball guy so i give him some slack for that. But he's probably Majerus' best media friend in STL, so I'll also give him so slack for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU7881 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 "Our offense is actually above average." No, its not. At best, its average in the A 10. Among other statistics per Timmerman's article today, SLU ranks 154th among 338 Division 1 schools in points scored. Points scored may be the best statistic when validating an offense.That's average anyway you slice it. And there's no quarreling with the easy shots missed and free throw percenatge. Good offenses tend not to have these problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Points scored tells you nothing about how good your offense is in a timed game. It doesn't take into account the pace a game is played at. Offense should be judged on how well they score per pocession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.hayes Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 "Our offense is actually above average." No, its not. At best, its average in the A 10. Among other statistics per Timmerman's article today, SLU ranks 154th among 338 Division 1 schools in points scored. Points scored may be the best statistic when validating an offense.That's average anyway you slice it. And there's no quarreling with the easy shots missed and free throw percenatge. Good offenses tend not to have these problems. Points scored has to be the single silliest thing I've ever heard to argue as the best statistic when validating an offense. How about point per possession? If a team has 100 possessions in a game, runs up and down the court like mad men jacking up three's at every opportunity and they score 80 points, are they better than a team who slows the game down, only gets 60 possessions, but scores 60 points? SLU is 33rd in the nation in points per possession. Tied with Memphis and Marquette, who I'd say are good offensive teams. How about field goal percentage? SLU is 82nd in the nation out of 344 results on ESPN. (~23rd percentile). Free throw percentage? SLU is 121st (~35th percentile) How about turnovers per game? SLU has the 22nd fewest turnovers in the nation out of 344. If you adjust that to a possession-based statistic, they fall to somewhere in the mid-40's for turnover rate. If the offense run by SLU is average in the A10, they A10 must be the best conference in basketball, because the Bills have one of the 50 best offenses in the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 imo bernie is not a basketball guy so i give him some slack for that.Few local sports personalities are...frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Points scored has to be the single silliest thing I've ever heard to argue as the best statistic when validating an offense. How about point per possession? If a team has 100 possessions in a game, runs up and down the court like mad men jacking up three's at every opportunity and they score 80 points, are they better than a team who slows the game down, only gets 60 possessions, but scores 60 points? SLU is 33rd in the nation in points per possession. Tied with Memphis and Marquette, who I'd say are good offensive teams. How about field goal percentage? SLU is 82nd in the nation out of 344 results on ESPN. (~23rd percentile). Free throw percentage? SLU is 121st (~35th percentile) How about turnovers per game? SLU has the 22nd fewest turnovers in the nation out of 344. If you adjust that to a possession-based statistic, they fall to somewhere in the mid-40's for turnover rate. If the offense run by SLU is average in the A10, they A10 must be the best conference in basketball, because the Bills have one of the 50 best offenses in the nation. ha. awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 "Our offense is actually above average." No, its not. At best, its average in the A 10. Among other statistics per Timmerman's article today, SLU ranks 154th among 338 Division 1 schools in points scored. Points scored may be the best statistic when validating an offense.That's average anyway you slice it. And there's no quarreling with the easy shots missed and free throw percenatge. Good offenses tend not to have these problems. Does our win loss record mean anything? 22-5 doesn't appear to be mediocre. Oh I get it - a circular argument. Our wins are only good b/c of the defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukeebill Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Points scored has to be the single silliest thing I've ever heard to argue as the best statistic when validating an offense. How about point per possession? If a team has 100 possessions in a game, runs up and down the court like mad men jacking up three's at every opportunity and they score 80 points, are they better than a team who slows the game down, only gets 60 possessions, but scores 60 points? SLU is 33rd in the nation in points per possession. Tied with Memphis and Marquette, who I'd say are good offensive teams. How about field goal percentage? SLU is 82nd in the nation out of 344 results on ESPN. (~23rd percentile). Free throw percentage? SLU is 121st (~35th percentile) How about turnovers per game? SLU has the 22nd fewest turnovers in the nation out of 344. If you adjust that to a possession-based statistic, they fall to somewhere in the mid-40's for turnover rate. If the offense run by SLU is average in the A10, they A10 must be the best conference in basketball, because the Bills have one of the 50 best offenses in the nation. The thing I get hung up on is yes by all statistics we are a top 50 offense in the nation. Now where i start to think about how good teams are I usually just basically assume the teams from around 130 or 150 to the bottom dont actually count.. Theyre just not players in the national game. thats why I consider our offense to be slightly above average. Just different ways of speaking about things. I try to measure us against relevant teams in the NCAA no against all of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 "Our offense is actually above average." No, its not. At best, its average in the A 10. Among other statistics per Timmerman's article today, SLU ranks 154th among 338 Division 1 schools in points scored. Points scored may be the best statistic when validating an offense.That's average anyway you slice it. And there's no quarreling with the easy shots missed and free throw percenatge. Good offenses tend not to have these problems. http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2011-2012/confldrs.html This is hilariously wrong, for reasons that others have stated. Our FT% is currently 5th in the conference, FG% is 5th, 3PT% is 3rd, turnover margin is 2nd, and rebounding margin is 5th. And most importantly, 1st in the conference by a landslide in scoring margin (69 PPG scored, 56 PPG allowed). Watch some other teams sometime too, we aren't the only team in the country that misses "easy" shots occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 why do we care where we rank in offense or defense? i would think our win loss record is all we really care about when it comes down to looking at the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Big Dance = Only Measure of Success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU7881 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Big Dance = Only Measure of Success. To that we should all agree. I'll still stand by my earlier remarks regarding the offense. The defense is tremendous by any measure and is, in my opinion, the major reason we're at 22-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Adding to this, in November our offense looked the best it's ever been. Does anyone else agree that it's not looked as crisp since that time? I think the reason is early in the year there's not a lot of game film to go around so it's almost as if you're running it in practice, but once people see it they just know how to defend it better. I agree with you '72. It doesn't look nearly as crisp as November. I think teams have figured out how to defend us a little better. Also, we just aren't hitting as many open shots. Finally, teams are either defending Conk tougher or he is just off the mark or a combo of both. Here are Conk's numbers in late Nov-early Dec: 9-15 FG - UW 7-11 FG - BC 3-8 FG - Vill 9-11 FG - OU 3-5 FG - LMU 7-7 FG - Port 38-57 FG - 67% In our last 7 games, his numbers: 7-16 FG - UMASS 6-6 FG - SBU (we scored 86 this game) 6-12 FG - Day 3-9 FG - SJU 4-12 FG - LS 1-6 FG - Rich 1-5 FG - Ford 28-66 FG - 42% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 why do we care where we rank in offense or defense? i would think our win loss record is all we really care about when it comes down to looking at the season.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Big Dance = Only Measure of Success. Stop the presses. Kshoe and Taj agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Bill Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 PB's definition: mediocre [mee-dee-oh-ker] (adj): enough to get by on. RM philosophy: rebounds, FTs, 3 pointers, yeah, we need all of those, we'll work on them, but "D" isn't the main thing, its the ONLY thing you really need for a win, with just enough offense to get by on. Trouble is, on those inevitable days when the "D" breaks down, a mediocre "O" can't take up the slack. Temple, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Although we are not a high scoring team we do not play a slow tempo. What we play is an offense that probes the defense and will not shoot until we get an open shot of the type we want to take. If that comes early in the shot clock then we take the shot. If not, we work the offense to get a good shot. It was amazing on Sat to see Fordham in a stall type offense where they would just hold the ball for about 15-20 seconds and then start their offense. I have no idea why they would do that--it was almost like they wanted to keep the score down! In football it is easier to see the defense score, repeatedly. In our basketball game against Fordham they were trying to protect the ball from turnovers; we would have beat them by 45 if they played normal tempo and they were not good enough shooters to play up tempo Even if they were behind. All of our guards killed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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