Big East Changes

[kshoe]

According to ESPN, TCU will join the Big East as an all sports member, bringing the entire conference to 17 teams. Villanova will eventually start playing football bringing the total to 10 football and 7 basketball teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

This is a blow to those thinking the Big East will dissolve anytime soon. The 7 basketball only schools may not have an equal footing anymore but they aren't going anywhere as long as the money is good and the on court play is strong (its very strong).

Personally, I was afraid of the scenario where they take TCU and look to add one more basketball only team from the A-10 (Xavier being a potential candidate).

We should all get comnfortable with the A-10 as our long term home. Is it perfect, no, but Xavier has proven that you can have an outstanding program in it so we just need to take care of business on the court.

[kevinfootes]

According to ESPN, TCU will join the Big East as an all sports member, bringing the entire conference to 17 teams. Villanova will eventually start playing football bringing the total to 10 football and 7 basketball teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

This is a blow to those thinking the Big East will dissolve anytime soon. The 7 basketball only schools may not have an equal footing anymore but they aren't going anywhere as long as the money is good and the on court play is strong (its very strong).

Personally, I was afraid of the scenario where they take TCU and look to add one more basketball only team from the A-10 (Xavier being a potential candidate).

We should all get comnfortable with the A-10 as our long term home. Is it perfect, no, but Xavier has proven that you can have an outstanding program in it so we just need to take care of business on the court.

IMO, a very strong play by the Big East. TCU is the best "available" school in the state of Texas and football is driving things. Heck, they're the best football team in Texas this year.

I'm not sold on the idea that the Big East won't implode. In most years they'll have at least 9 or 10 teams sitting out the big dance. As we've speculated before, SLU could be pretty solid if a new league had 12 teams, but maybe not so much in a 10-team formation.

[sluball200]

Helps Baseball big time..Football but, Big East football isn't that good, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me

[cheeseman]

Helps Baseball big time..Football but, Big East football isn't that good, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me

Puts TCU now in a BCS conf - makes all the sense in the world. Travel is a problem but the money increase will cover that is my guess.

[slu72]

Puts TCU now in a BCS conf - makes all the sense in the world. Travel is a problem but the money increase will cover that is my guess.

I can still see them adding two more FB teams for a playoff. Temple would be an obvious choice before X. Of course, Nova might put up a stink there. Amazed they extended to TCU but still not to Memphis, which is a lot closer to their core makeup. Advice to X, yeah you're good, but take a look at how UC's fared in hoops before you start tossing in with these East Coast biggies. All in all though, the way we're running our hoops program right now, small time but w/ extremely high morals, having X leave makes it a little easier on us in the future. Cripes, sometimes I think we'd be better off in something like the horizon and dominate the hell out of it. Worked for Butler and Zaga. Why not us?

[kshoe]

I can still see them adding two more FB teams for a playoff. Temple would be an obvious choice before X. Of course, Nova might put up a stink there. Amazed they extended to TCU but still not to Memphis, which is a lot closer to their core makeup. Advice to X, yeah you're good, but take a look at how UC's fared in hoops before you start tossing in with these East Coast biggies. All in all though, the way we're running our hoops program right now, small time but w/ extremely high morals, having X leave makes it a little easier on us in the future. Cripes, sometimes I think we'd be better off in something like the horizon and dominate the hell out of it. Worked for Butler and Zaga. Why not us?

1) They wanted TCU because it gives them immediate BCS respectability. The Big East was going to have its BCS membership come due in 3 years so they needed to get the best football team possible.

2) Can't see them going to 19 teams with two more football teams.

3) Xavier leaving would not make it easier on us. We need to be in the best basketball conference possible and Xavier gives the A-10 respectibility. Its a lot easier being the 3rd or 4th team in the dance from the A-10 than being the only team in a one bid league.

4) We haven't shown the ability to dominate any league.

[MusicCityBilliken]

1) They wanted TCU because it gives them immediate BCS respectability. The Big East was going to have its BCS membership come due in 3 years so they needed to get the best football team possible.

2) Can't see them going to 19 teams with two more football teams.

3) Xavier leaving would not make it easier on us. We need to be in the best basketball conference possible and Xavier gives the A-10 respectibility. Its a lot easier being the 3rd or 4th team in the dance from the A-10 than being the only team in a one bid league.

4) We haven't shown the ability to dominate any league.

I think you are right. Grawer had some really strong teams in late '80s and all that got us was NIT finals because we were in the Midwest Col. (Horizon). I am all for getting us in the strongest conference possible and right now that is the A10.

[kevinfootes]

I can still see them adding two more FB teams for a playoff. Temple would be an obvious choice before X. Of course, Nova might put up a stink there. Amazed they extended to TCU but still not to Memphis, which is a lot closer to their core makeup. Advice to X, yeah you're good, but take a look at how UC's fared in hoops before you start tossing in with these East Coast biggies. All in all though, the way we're running our hoops program right now, small time but w/ extremely high morals, having X leave makes it a little easier on us in the future. Cripes, sometimes I think we'd be better off in something like the horizon and dominate the hell out of it. Worked for Butler and Zaga. Why not us?

TCU is light years ahead of Memphis in football.

Most years we seem to be the 4th-7th best team in whatever conference we're in.

[kevinfootes]

1) They wanted TCU because it gives them immediate BCS respectability. The Big East was going to have its BCS membership come due in 3 years so they needed to get the best football team possible.

2) Can't see them going to 19 teams with two more football teams.

I agree that TCU was by far the best option, but waiting for Villanova to get up to speed seems like a stretch. It would take at least 5 years. The remaining football options aren't great either...Memphis, Southern Miss, East Carolina, UAB, Navy, etc. I guess they're hoping to tap into the Philly market for football, but that's pretty solid Penn State country.

Edit: after thinking about this Houston would make a lot of sense for the Big East.

[Cowboy]

-this does make sense on several levels for both sides, the only place where it doesn't seem to is travel and the money should make up part of this

-the non-revenue sports could be making some very long (mileage) and extended (# of days) road trips

[BLIKNS]

Maybe now would be a good time for the A-10 to go on the offensive. DePaul, looks like the Big East is being driven by football,and you would be very welcome here. Butler we have other Midwestern schools here also.

I think Marquette is quite comfortable in the Big East though.ALOT of MONEY there, but DePaul hasn`t had the success.

Say in a perfect world , the A-10 adds DePaul then have 5 - 3 team divisons.IF Butler were invited and joined also now 16 teams, 2 divisons.Or 4 4 team divisons.

I still see Memphis as an option for the Big 12, as well as Houston.

[kshoe]

Maybe now would be a good time for the A-10 to go on the offensive. DePaul, looks like the Big East is being driven by football,and you would be very welcome here. Butler we have other Midwestern schools here also.

I think Marquette is quite comfortable in the Big East though.ALOT of MONEY there, but DePaul hasn`t had the success.

Say in a perfect world , the A-10 adds DePaul then have 5 - 3 team divisons.IF Butler were invited and joined also now 16 teams, 2 divisons.Or 4 4 team divisons.

I still see Memphis as an option for the Big 12, as well as Houston.

I could see that conversation going well with Depaul:

Depaul: We are interested in joining the A-10 because we'd likely be more competive in it. Can you walk us through the finances.

A-10: Well, we have a t.v. deal with CBS Sports t.v. Its no Big Monday but if you're lucky it'll be in the sports tier package of the Comcast cable network.

Depaul: Well, what about conference tournament?

A-10: Atlantic City baby! Who needs a sold-out MSG, NYC and every game televised on ESPN when you can have 300 of your closest friends at Atlantic City in a half gym, half hotel boardroom.

Depaul: Well what about the NCAA tourney revenues?

A-10: We typically get 3 teams and 1 of them makes the Sweet 16, so expect 5 credits per year, split 15 ways.

Depaul: But the Big East sends about 8 teams a year and on average they win 1.5 games, which equates to about 20 credits, split 16 ways.

A-10: So can we count on you?

Depaul: Dial-tone.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I could see that conversation going well with Depaul:

Depaul: We are interested in joining the A-10 because we'd likely be more competive in it. Can you walk us through the finances.

A-10: Well, we have a t.v. deal with CBS Sports t.v. Its no Big Monday but if you're lucky it'll be in the sports tier package of the Comcast cable network.

Depaul: Well, what about conference tournament?

A-10: Atlantic City baby! Who needs a sold-out MSG, NYC and every game televised on ESPN when you can have 300 of your closest friends at Atlantic City in a half gym, half hotel boardroom.

Depaul: Well what about the NCAA tourney revenues?

A-10: We typically get 3 teams and 1 of them makes the Sweet 16, so expect 5 credits per year, split 15 ways.

Depaul: But the Big East sends about 8 teams a year and on average they win 1.5 games, which equates to about 20 credits, split 16 ways.

A-10: So can we count on you?

Depaul: Dial-tone.

DePaul, itself, is locked out of the NCAA Tournament as long as it tries to make a go of it in the Big East.

[Bizziken]

According to ESPN, TCU will join the Big East as an all sports member, bringing the entire conference to 17 teams. Villanova will eventually start playing football bringing the total to 10 football and 7 basketball teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

This is a blow to those thinking the Big East will dissolve anytime soon. The 7 basketball only schools may not have an equal footing anymore but they aren't going anywhere as long as the money is good and the on court play is strong (its very strong).

Personally, I was afraid of the scenario where they take TCU and look to add one more basketball only team from the A-10 (Xavier being a potential candidate).

We should all get comnfortable with the A-10 as our long term home. Is it perfect, no, but Xavier has proven that you can have an outstanding program in it so we just need to take care of business on the court.

From a football perspective, this sucks for Boise St. They move to the Mountain West thinking it will be a step up...a Conference of TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise, and Nevada sounds pretty good...This MWC would be better than the Big East AND ACC...It's just too bad everybody jumped ship. This Conference was capable of producing a National Championship non-BCS team...

[Bay Area Billiken]

According to ESPN, TCU will join the Big East as an all sports member, bringing the entire conference to 17 teams. Villanova will eventually start playing football bringing the total to 10 football and 7 basketball teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

This is a blow to those thinking the Big East will dissolve anytime soon. The 7 basketball only schools may not have an equal footing anymore but they aren't going anywhere as long as the money is good and the on court play is strong (its very strong).

Personally, I was afraid of the scenario where they take TCU and look to add one more basketball only team from the A-10 (Xavier being a potential candidate).

We should all get comnfortable with the A-10 as our long term home. Is it perfect, no, but Xavier has proven that you can have an outstanding program in it so we just need to take care of business on the court.

I heard earlier about the Villanova invitation from a Villanova parent, as Villanova sent out a letter. The matter is under review, but many expect Villanova to accept. There are stadium issues, as it is believed that Villanova will encounter opposition if it tries to expand its existing on-campus stadium. But Franklin Field (Penn) and perhaps Lincoln Financial Field, are potential options, although both are a drive from the Villanova campus.

If Villanova goes FBS in Football, it would become the third Catholic school in the FBS.

I don't see the Big East imploding any time soon. There's just too much money and prestige involved.

[Bay Area Billiken]

From a football perspective, this sucks for Boise St. They move to the Mountain West thinking it will be a step up...a Conference of TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise, and Nevada sounds pretty good...This MWC would be better than the Big East AND ACC...It's just too bad everybody jumped ship. This Conference was capable of producing a National Championship non-BCS team...

And the Mountain West was a threat to the Big East's automatic BCS bid.

There is some thought that Houston might be next for the Mountain West.

The BYU situation seems bizarre. BYU is going the Independent route in football after the loss of rival Utah to the Pac-10, with BYU following the Notre Dame model. BYU's move to the WCC in all other sports seemed to come out of LF. At the time, I thought I was reading that BYU was returning to the WAC, as had been at least half expected, until I realized that it was actually the WCC. BYU with its 22,700 seat Marriott Center will be in the same league wherein the next biggest venue seats 7,000. But BYU will be aligned with 8 other religious based schools.

[kshoe]

From a football perspective, this sucks for Boise St. They move to the Mountain West thinking it will be a step up...a Conference of TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise, and Nevada sounds pretty good...This MWC would be better than the Big East AND ACC...It's just too bad everybody jumped ship. This Conference was capable of producing a National Championship non-BCS team...

Exactly. That conference would have been good enough but the 6 BCS guys had such a monopoly over the money that each school felt they individually needed to look out for number one. Its a shame.

[bk18]

Jealous. Simply jealous.

SLU will only have legitimate national attention if it is in the Big East.

We better make some moves quickly so when the opportunities come, we can go for it.

[billiken_roy]

kshoe, i dont think big east basketball schools will ask to leave. i agree the strength of the basketball conference is such they would be foolish to do so.

i think eventually the football schools will push out the basketball schools. they think that football brings them opportunities as a conference and even if the basketball schools dont share in football revenue, they get the priceless benefit of just being a part of the big east conference with their bcs football status.

[Bizziken]

Exactly. That conference would have been good enough but the 6 BCS guys had such a monopoly over the money that each school felt they individually needed to look out for number one. Its a shame.

Boise's best chance is to get invited to the Big 12 and opt out of their MWC contract...may have to pony up some dollaz, but, imo, it would be well worth it if they are looking to legitimately upgrade their program...

[kevinfootes]

Maybe now would be a good time for the A-10 to go on the offensive. DePaul, looks like the Big East is being driven by football,and you would be very welcome here. Butler we have other Midwestern schools here also.

I think Marquette is quite comfortable in the Big East though.ALOT of MONEY there, but DePaul hasn`t had the success.

Say in a perfect world , the A-10 adds DePaul then have 5 - 3 team divisons.IF Butler were invited and joined also now 16 teams, 2 divisons.Or 4 4 team divisons.

I still see Memphis as an option for the Big 12, as well as Houston.

IMO, the Big 12 has little to gain by adding another Texas school. They already have the state covered and then some. Expanding conferences are typically doing so in new territories for them in order to broaden their TV appeal. I'm not sure the Big 12 will add teams any time soon. The extra money of a football playoff is somewhat negated by having to share with 2 more teams. Plus you run the risk of having your better team knocked out of the BCS by losing the championship game.

(pure speculation on my part) IMO, if the Big 12 is looking to add teams, Boise State, Cincy, Louisville, and Memphis are among the better possibilities.

[lefty]

IMO, the Big 12 has little to gain by adding another Texas school. They already have the state covered and then some. Expanding conferences are typically doing so in new territories for them in order to broaden their TV appeal. I'm not sure the Big 12 will add teams any time soon. The extra money of a football playoff is somewhat negated by having to share with 2 more teams. Plus you run the risk of having your better team knocked out of the BCS by losing the championship game.

(pure speculation on my part) IMO, if the Big 12 is looking to add teams, Boise State, Cincy, Louisville, and Memphis are among the better possibilities.

Back when the Big 12 was formed, Texas and A&M thought too many Texas schools were being included. If Ann Richards, the Governer, wasn't a Baylor alum, they never would have been admitted. There are many who think the Big 12 is only holding together until UT gets their TV network in place to be grandfathered in whereever they go. They, A&M and Oklahoma can moreorless choose from several expanded conferences. The remaining won't be able to be so choosy and a few, like K-State and/or Iowa State could be out of luck as far as a BCS conference affiliation.

[Pistol]

All these conference changes are just proving that football is king. Memphis consistently has one of the best, and likely one of the highest revenue generating, basketball programs in the country but they haven't gotten a sniff from the Big East or Big 12. The Big East is known for basketball but adds TCU and probably Villanova for football, even though TCU's basketball program isn't much to speak of.

This all mystifies me on some level, because aren't only a handful of football programs profitable? And aren't a larger number (though still a minority) of basketball programs profitable?

I know only an elite group of athletic programs overall have a positive bottom line, and that the big profits of a select few in football are greater than those top programs in basketball. But I'm having a hard time understanding why football is dictating all of these moves; if so few programs are generating a profit, where is all the TV revenue (which seems to be a main driver of these moves) going?

[slu72 fan]

All these conference changes are just proving that football is king. Memphis consistently has one of the best, and likely one of the highest revenue generating, basketball programs in the country but they haven't gotten a sniff from the Big East or Big 12. The Big East is known for basketball but adds TCU and probably Villanova for football, even though TCU's basketball program isn't much to speak of.

This all mystifies me on some level, because aren't only a handful of football programs profitable? And aren't a larger number (though still a minority) of basketball programs profitable?

I know only an elite group of athletic programs overall have a positive bottom line, and that the big profits of a select few in football are greater than those top programs in basketball. But I'm having a hard time understanding why football is dictating all of these moves; if so few programs are generating a profit, where is all the TV revenue (which seems to be a main driver of these moves) going?

[kshoe]

All these conference changes are just proving that football is king. Memphis consistently has one of the best, and likely one of the highest revenue generating, basketball programs in the country but they haven't gotten a sniff from the Big East or Big 12. The Big East is known for basketball but adds TCU and probably Villanova for football, even though TCU's basketball program isn't much to speak of.

This all mystifies me on some level, because aren't only a handful of football programs profitable? And aren't a larger number (though still a minority) of basketball programs profitable?

I know only an elite group of athletic programs overall have a positive bottom line, and that the big profits of a select few in football are greater than those top programs in basketball. But I'm having a hard time understanding why football is dictating all of these moves; if so few programs are generating a profit, where is all the TV revenue (which seems to be a main driver of these moves) going?

I like college football but I love college basketball and I agree that it is disheartening to see football becoming the undisputed king and basically screwing some pretty good basketball conferences (CUSA being a good example) all for more money.

There is a view out there that the revenue for basketball is largely maxed out as CBS really can't increase increase the rights fees all that much more. The view with football is that revenues can continue to grow with various t.v. packages and maybe even some sort of playoff down the line. For that reason, most schools will screw basketball in favor of increased football power.

As for football losing money at most schools, that may be true but I think most universities have come to believe that a big time football program has many ancillary benefits ranging from school pride, to increased admissions applications to alumni donations that aren't necessarily to the athletics department. One can argue all day about how to attribute those things but if you are willing to lose a little money on the football program in order to improve all those other things it may be worth it.