18 days until the opener

[BillikenROAR]

just out of sheer curiosity -- have you even seen these new players? are you making these "judgments based on posts here on billikens.com??

if so I would say your "analysis" is pretty much worthless. sorry if this is stepping on your toes too much, but goodness: these are sweeping critiques based on exactly nothing.

for example: guessing the DE will transfer, what a condescending remark. FYI--he is a cool all around talent and not unlike one Tommie Liddell, one that we would have been ecstatic about getting just a few years ago. I wish only the best for DE-- he is working hard and a very fine addition to SLU. He will definitely get some minutes, early and often IMHO.

Your expert analysis: PE seeing the floor is not good? Well, we'll see. Go Paul, take you (in effect) senior season and enjoy. Pour in some 3-pointers, OK?

I'd also like for you to look BC in the eye (or rather, probably the belly button) and call him a jackass. Or inform him he played like one. bring a towel.

But my main point is, when you make idiotic comments based on internet rumors, it sort of makes you look like an idiot. ouch!

or as Jimbo likes to say it : HATE!

Ok. This one goes out to DocB.

You are came at me saying i look like an idiot, and literally backed it up with nothing..

your first tag at me says you think my comments are "worthless" because I have not been to a billiken practice. You would be correct, but there were times they played in the rec over the summer. you say that my comments are based on nothing..do you watch basketball? do you follow other programs? have you ever read any other website besides this one? Do you work in sports? based on your answers, you are clearly a passionate billiken fan but a poorly educated college basketball fan.

You really think my analysis is worthless and your first one involves a comparison between tl3 and DE..i think hussakattack broke that one down pretty easily for you, but said it in a nicer way than I would have. DE is not even on the same planet as TL3..I also said he was my pick to transfer because it has been a trend in the past few seasons for kids to realize they are not in the a system that fits their style of play..sorry i threw out a guess broseph.

I was looking to answer some other of your accounts on how my opinions are worthless but realized you basically said nothing in your other comments asside from acting like a soccer mom and encouraging paul like he reads this board before he goes to bed at night. "go paul" hahaha that made me laugh because you really do sound like a jackoff. the kid is coming back from a major knee injury and wasnt the most athletic of players b4 he got hurt, look what happened to femi..i expect little from him..and yes, i would be glad to tell brian he played like a jackass at times last year. it would be the nicest way it was described compared to the ass chewings rickma gave him last year. and if you read the rest of my post, i do believe i said he would be greatly improved. READ FOOL! here's your towel back.

And you say I make comments based on rumors. Well guy, I make my opinions based on what i see, hear and general knowledge of the game.

How can you sit back and say they are so far off?? This season will be almost impossible to predict, but I state what I think and somehow it is completely wrong? Are you the expert I really need to be talking to here? its all personal guesswork anyway and im pretty sure i can spill what i think ..unless you are some sort of billiken basketball oracle who also gives out hugs and kisses to each and every player before they go to bed just to make sure they feel special. [deleted]

To the people acting like I am treating this team like a BS team..

This is going to be a difficult year. Yes, we are lucky enough to have one of the most talented teams we have ever had, but it wont be enough.

I believed, like everyone else, that the complete team was going to do great things this year. We had all the right pieces to the puzzle. They fit and it was going to be great. But now we have lost the 2 main pieces that gave every other player their identity and role. The talent may be there, but the way rickma has built this team, each of the different talents complimented each other, which brought out the best in each players abilities. The freshman will be a major factor, we know that. maybe MM is the freshman of the year and plays beyond his years, who knows. but it is highly unlikely. CE is solid, but he was able to work off having kwamain attack the d and dish or could leak out if willie was getting double teamed. how will his game be when he is the primary offensive threat to the other teams? CR was solid last year playing valuable fill in minutes, but can he handle the minutes required being the only true 5?

My main point is each person is shifting to a new role on the team. Who knows if they will be able to make it work or not. I really believe kwamain being back will change a lot of these OPINIONS i have because he is the true leader of this team. But we are in a loaded A-10 this year, and even with the best team we have seen here in a looooonnngg time, we were still picked 3rd 4th or 5th by most experts. We have struggled with teams with talented big-men in the past even with willie, I cant imagine what players like Lavoy Allen, Damian Saunders and Aaric Murray will do to us now..All in all, I really hope my negativity gets thrown back in my face in the middle of the season, but I cant help but be a realist now in our current state.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Absurd_Bills_fan
inappropriate material

[DoctorB]

ROAR: thanks for taking seriously my comments.

1st, yes, FYI, I have watched a little college basketball over the years. I've been around major programs for a long time, and in fact have argued that most of this is not really rocket science, so this "expertise" question is pretty silly for old-timers who played and watched for decades. Based on your diction, style, and general word choice I am going to guess you are in the early to mid 20s, age-wise, so that means I've been doing this 30 years or more than you have -- i.e. I was around your current age when you were a sperm and an egg. For example, I actually remember Wooden's UCLA, for instance, and I cut my teeth with Bob Knight's Hoosiers, who played the Bruins one year in the Final 4. I went to ABA games in the old Indiana Coliseum. I saw Magic Johnson live as a freshman, and shot free throws with Steve Alford. If experience and "reading other sites" (what we used to call magazines and newspapers) rules the day, then I'm afraid you'd lose that one, pal, assuming it even matters. (In rhetoric that's called the appeal to authority; it's a good tactic but only if you are certain you will win.)

No on to actual basketball. I am really curious about your jumping on the Husakattack bandwagon regarding DE and TL. All due respect -- I am sort of curious about this, and would love to hear other's opinions-- I really liked TL's skills and yes he came in and played over 30 minutes a game, was rookie of the year and all that. But was he really from another planet? Now John Wall, he was from another planet. Honestly, and I mean this seriously, I remember watching Tommie when he came in, and he could sure dunk and all that; but no he did not strike me as being simply outer stratosphere. I admit I could be wrong about this and welcome other input. I think we are talking degrees here -- and part of it may have been TL's very lazy play in scrimmages too. I hate to put it this way but I will -- I guess I always felt that TL was just a little overrated by the billiken faithful. Maybe a LOT. Maybe part of it was hanging around Bloomington in the 80s and early 90s, and knowing players, playing pick-up with team members, and watching them up close -- in that regard, TL is just another athlete standing next to those guys, believe me. Certainly NOT on some other planet. I've seen other planet types up close -- Isiah Thomas, Calbert Cheaney, Alan Henderson -- and TL is not in that general vicinity. If it is true that TL is the best athlete we've had, it only speaks to the generally poor recruits over the years.

And why all the animosity toward Paul E.? I don't get that at all -- after all he's worked through and all he has meant to this team? I may be wrong again, but I'm assuming he will get his minutes this year.

More general point: I really dislike it and it pulls my chain when someone says nasty and quite hurtful things about our players. I don't think I do that. I think we live in a culture of aggressive idiocy and if you want to know what that looks like just listen to some of these sports talk shows on radio. Meanness is not a great or even good thing. Meanness is just vicious and depraved. I don't like the air of this sort of thing. So I think much of my calling out someone is usually when they are attacking players for no apparent reason.

[HusakAttack]

ROAR: thanks for taking seriously my comments.

1st, yes, FYI, I have watched a little college basketball over the years. I've been around major programs for a long time, and in fact have argued that most of this is not really rocket science, so this "expertise" question is pretty silly for old-timers who played and watched for decades. Based on your diction, style, and general word choice I am going to guess you are in the early to mid 20s, age-wise, so that means I've been doing this 30 years or more than you have -- i.e. I was around your current age when you were a sperm and an egg. For example, I actually remember Wooden's UCLA, for instance, and I cut my teeth with Bob Knight's Hoosiers, who played the Bruins one year in the Final 4. I went to ABA games in the old Indiana Coliseum. I saw Magic Johnson live as a freshman, and shot free throws with Steve Alford. If experience and "reading other sites" (what we used to call magazines and newspapers) rules the day, then I'm afraid you'd lose that one, pal, assuming it even matters. (In rhetoric that's called the appeal to authority; it's a good tactic but only if you are certain you will win.)

No on to actual basketball. I am really curious about your jumping on the Husakattack bandwagon regarding DE and TL. All due respect -- I am sort of curious about this, and would love to hear other's opinions-- I really liked TL's skills and yes he came in and played over 30 minutes a game, was rookie of the year and all that. But was he really from another planet? Now John Wall, he was from another planet. Honestly, and I mean this seriously, I remember watching Tommie when he came in, and he could sure dunk and all that; but no he did not strike me as being simply outer stratosphere. I admit I could be wrong about this and welcome other input. I think we are talking degrees here -- and part of it may have been TL's very lazy play in scrimmages too. I hate to put it this way but I will -- I guess I always felt that TL was just a little overrated by the billiken faithful. Maybe a LOT. Maybe part of it was hanging around Bloomington in the 80s and early 90s, and knowing players, playing pick-up with team members, and watching them up close -- in that regard, TL is just another athlete standing next to those guys, believe me. Certainly NOT on some other planet. I've seen other planet types up close -- Isiah Thomas, Calbert Cheaney, Alan Henderson -- and TL is not in that general vicinity. If it is true that TL is the best athlete we've had, it only speaks to the generally poor recruits over the years.

And why all the animosity toward Paul E.? I don't get that at all -- after all he's worked through and all he has meant to this team? I may be wrong again, but I'm assuming he will get his minutes this year.

More general point: I really dislike it and it pulls my chain when someone says nasty and quite hurtful things about our players. I don't think I do that. I think we live in a culture of aggressive idiocy and if you want to know what that looks like just listen to some of these sports talk shows on radio. Meanness is not a great or even good thing. Meanness is just vicious and depraved. I don't like the air of this sort of thing. So I think much of my calling out someone is usually when they are attacking players for no apparent reason.

For SLU standards TL3 IS on another level. Anyone who debates this is out of his or her gord. I have been following the program for 2 and a half decades since thats what we are going by now, and in that time I can count on one hand, former or current Billiken players who had the ability to single-handedly take over games. Tommie is one of them. Yeah his work ethic was awful but that has nothing to do with pure skills which is the debate you began. I hope and thinks DE can be very good if he adjusts his game at this level but he will not take over games on his own.

[HusakAttack]

Let me clarify something before this next point, I have nothing against DE at all and am excited to see what kind of player he is.

I comparing skill sets of players it is fair to compare the list of final schools recruiting those players, especially with DoctorB name dropping UCLA and Indiana.

Final schools recruiting DE: Kent State, Loyola Chi, Western Michigan, Norhtwestern, Northern Illinois, SLU

Final schools recruiting TL3: UConn, Illinois, UNLV, Wake Forest, SLU

This data is via Scout.com which is a fairly reliable website. Slightly different, eh?

[ACE]

ROAR: thanks for taking seriously my comments.

1st, yes, FYI, I have watched a little college basketball over the years. I've been around major programs for a long time, and in fact have argued that most of this is not really rocket science, so this "expertise" question is pretty silly for old-timers who played and watched for decades. Based on your diction, style, and general word choice I am going to guess you are in the early to mid 20s, age-wise, so that means I've been doing this 30 years or more than you have -- i.e. I was around your current age when you were a sperm and an egg. For example, I actually remember Wooden's UCLA, for instance, and I cut my teeth with Bob Knight's Hoosiers, who played the Bruins one year in the Final 4. I went to ABA games in the old Indiana Coliseum. I saw Magic Johnson live as a freshman, and shot free throws with Steve Alford. If experience and "reading other sites" (what we used to call magazines and newspapers) rules the day, then I'm afraid you'd lose that one, pal, assuming it even matters. (In rhetoric that's called the appeal to authority; it's a good tactic but only if you are certain you will win.)

No on to actual basketball. I am really curious about your jumping on the Husakattack bandwagon regarding DE and TL. All due respect -- I am sort of curious about this, and would love to hear other's opinions-- I really liked TL's skills and yes he came in and played over 30 minutes a game, was rookie of the year and all that. But was he really from another planet? Now John Wall, he was from another planet. Honestly, and I mean this seriously, I remember watching Tommie when he came in, and he could sure dunk and all that; but no he did not strike me as being simply outer stratosphere. I admit I could be wrong about this and welcome other input. I think we are talking degrees here -- and part of it may have been TL's very lazy play in scrimmages too. I hate to put it this way but I will -- I guess I always felt that TL was just a little overrated by the billiken faithful. Maybe a LOT. Maybe part of it was hanging around Bloomington in the 80s and early 90s, and knowing players, playing pick-up with team members, and watching them up close -- in that regard, TL is just another athlete standing next to those guys, believe me. Certainly NOT on some other planet. I've seen other planet types up close -- Isiah Thomas, Calbert Cheaney, Alan Henderson -- and TL is not in that general vicinity. If it is true that TL is the best athlete we've had, it only speaks to the generally poor recruits over the years.

And why all the animosity toward Paul E.? I don't get that at all -- after all he's worked through and all he has meant to this team? I may be wrong again, but I'm assuming he will get his minutes this year.

More general point: I really dislike it and it pulls my chain when someone says nasty and quite hurtful things about our players. I don't think I do that. I think we live in a culture of aggressive idiocy and if you want to know what that looks like just listen to some of these sports talk shows on radio. Meanness is not a great or even good thing. Meanness is just vicious and depraved. I don't like the air of this sort of thing. So I think much of my calling out someone is usually when they are attacking players for no apparent reason.

I agree. I think a lot of people overrated Tommie's athleticism. Comparing him to a former Billiken with similar size like Mo Jeffers, Tommie was not nearly at that level if we are simply judging athleticism. Tommie was not an NBA caliber athlete. Tommie had a lot of basketball skill and I would love to have another player like him (preferrably one with a little more heart). Hopefully that will be Dwayne Evans. I just got the sense that some Billiken faithful were expecting Tommie to be something approaching Larry Hughes. He just didn't have that type of explosive athleticism.

[slu72]

Ya know, I see a lot of people on here dog Conklin's jumper, but I don't see it. For as much as he takes it, he sure seems to be fairly accurate from the free throw line and base line. It's a bit ugly and looks like a half ass fade away most of the time, but it seems to me anyway, that he hits the shot at a consistent clip. I really hope his vertical has improved like you guys are saying...that would make a significant difference. Still a bit leary though at only 6'6". I keep telling myself he is really 6'8" if measured elsewhere.

Edit - not referring to actual free throws when I say free throw line. Just the jumpers from the general area.

With Conklin it's not his jump shot that drives me crazy it's his followups. He missed a bunch of chippies last year. Hoping that was due to his ankle because he didn't want to experience the pain of jumping. I mean at 6'6" and being a D1 player he ought to be able to slam a few in the hole rather than laying it in.

[billiken_roy]

I agree. I think a lot of people overrated Tommie's athleticism. Comparing him to a former Billiken with similar size like Mo Jeffers, Tommie was not nearly at that level if we are simply judging athleticism. Tommie was not an NBA caliber athlete. Tommie had a lot of basketball skill and I would love to have another player like him (preferrably one with a little more heart). Hopefully that will be Dwayne Evans. I just got the sense that some Billiken faithful were expecting Tommie to be something approaching Larry Hughes. He just didn't have that type of explosive athleticism.

i disagree with downrating tommie liddell's athletic ability. when he wanted to play he did some amazing things. i watched him from about 14 years old through his billiken days, and athletic ability was not tommie liddell's problem.

i think tommie's underachievement comes from sporadic effort and the fact that until he got to college he was never really coached. (omg come and watch eastside play sometime) thus i think tommie was always behind the learning curve of patterned basketball which both soderberg and majerus preach.

had tommie played in a calipari like dribble drive offense (dont forget the founder of the dribble drive offense was a junior college coach)or some sort of unlv run and gun offense, tommie would have thrived. we never saw the true tommie liddell at slu imo.

[bonwich]

There are also some huge surprises on how a player matures. Tommie had all kinds of crosswinds, among them what appeared to be a loss of drive and a conflict with RM's style (both of which could have been related).

Then again, think back to Gray-Douglass-Bonner. Douglass was supposed to be the stud, but arguably was the underachiever of the bunch. Did anyone think AB would be NBA material when he first arrived at SLU?

We're in the immediate preseason doldrums again in terms of board discussion (the Mitchell/Reed sideshow notwithstanding). I must admit, though, that the Doc-ROAR exchange has been entertaining.

[jbizzle09]

i disagree with downrating tommie liddell's athletic ability. when he wanted to play he did some amazing things. i watched him from about 14 years old through his billiken days, and athletic ability was not tommie liddell's problem.

i think tommie's underachievement comes from sporadic effort and the fact that until he got to college he was never really coached. (omg come and watch eastside play sometime) thus i think tommie was always behind the learning curve of patterned basketball which both soderberg and majerus preach.

had tommie played in a calipari like dribble drive offense (dont forget the founder of the dribble drive offense was a junior college coach)or some sort of unlv run and gun offense, tommie would have thrived. we never saw the true tommie liddell at slu imo.

I agree with BRoy that TL3 had truly great athletic ability. I still think that he basically pouted his way through his last two years at SLU due to Majerus' coaching style. It is amazing to see the dropoff from his soph season all the way to his senior year. By the end, he just didn't care. After his sophomore year, he looked like a player with NBA potential. He averaged nearly 7 boards a game (as a guard) scored over 15 PPG and shot an insane 45% from 3. If BS would have stayed on to coach, I think we would have seen TL3's numbers continue to increase over his final 2 seasons, as he would have been given carte blanche to do whatever on the court. Of course, that did not happen.

But to digress, the discussion is in regards to TL3's athletic ability. And to that, I have to say that he was maybe one of the best athlete's SLU basketball has ever seen. I still remember seeing his thunderous dunk against GW his soph season, as it looked like he leap frogged the defender. Amazing! Therefore, if DE is even somewhat similar to TL3 in ability and skill set, I for one am excited!

[Clock_Tower]

You have seen this in practice right? I don't recall him showing much ability to shoot the basketball from any distance, but my only basis for this is home games at Chaifetz.

No. Never been an RM practice. BC's best shot is a 10 to 12 footer from the wing/base line. Is he best shooter SLU has ever had? No. But he has good form and hit several shots, as I described, in games as a Frosh. Being abit short, a 6'6" guy, with limited jumping skills even when healthy and then being injured in both ankles last year, BC naturally struggled with 5 footers. IMO, most 6'6" guys do better at 12 foot than at 5 foot and BC is one of them. Success at 5 foot is NOT an indication of success at 12 foot. For instance, I'll bet KM's percentage at 20 foot would be better than at 5 foot. As a freshman, BC was more of a 10 to 12 foot shooter but this year should be a solid 15 foot shooter. Even healthy, I expect BC to be better at 15 foot than at 5 foot.

[BillikenROAR]

ROAR: thanks for taking seriously my comments.

1st, yes, FYI, I have watched a little college basketball over the years. I've been around major programs for a long time, and in fact have argued that most of this is not really rocket science, so this "expertise" question is pretty silly for old-timers who played and watched for decades. Based on your diction, style, and general word choice I am going to guess you are in the early to mid 20s, age-wise, so that means I've been doing this 30 years or more than you have -- i.e. I was around your current age when you were a sperm and an egg. For example, I actually remember Wooden's UCLA, for instance, and I cut my teeth with Bob Knight's Hoosiers, who played the Bruins one year in the Final 4. I went to ABA games in the old Indiana Coliseum. I saw Magic Johnson live as a freshman, and shot free throws with Steve Alford. If experience and "reading other sites" (what we used to call magazines and newspapers) rules the day, then I'm afraid you'd lose that one, pal, assuming it even matters. (In rhetoric that's called the appeal to authority; it's a good tactic but only if you are certain you will win.)

No on to actual basketball. I am really curious about your jumping on the Husakattack bandwagon regarding DE and TL. All due respect -- I am sort of curious about this, and would love to hear other's opinions-- I really liked TL's skills and yes he came in and played over 30 minutes a game, was rookie of the year and all that. But was he really from another planet? Now John Wall, he was from another planet. Honestly, and I mean this seriously, I remember watching Tommie when he came in, and he could sure dunk and all that; but no he did not strike me as being simply outer stratosphere. I admit I could be wrong about this and welcome other input. I think we are talking degrees here -- and part of it may have been TL's very lazy play in scrimmages too. I hate to put it this way but I will -- I guess I always felt that TL was just a little overrated by the billiken faithful. Maybe a LOT. Maybe part of it was hanging around Bloomington in the 80s and early 90s, and knowing players, playing pick-up with team members, and watching them up close -- in that regard, TL is just another athlete standing next to those guys, believe me. Certainly NOT on some other planet. I've seen other planet types up close -- Isiah Thomas, Calbert Cheaney, Alan Henderson -- and TL is not in that general vicinity. If it is true that TL is the best athlete we've had, it only speaks to the generally poor recruits over the years.

And why all the animosity toward Paul E.? I don't get that at all -- after all he's worked through and all he has meant to this team? I may be wrong again, but I'm assuming he will get his minutes this year.

More general point: I really dislike it and it pulls my chain when someone says nasty and quite hurtful things about our players. I don't think I do that. I think we live in a culture of aggressive idiocy and if you want to know what that looks like just listen to some of these sports talk shows on radio. Meanness is not a great or even good thing. Meanness is just vicious and depraved. I don't like the air of this sort of thing. So I think much of my calling out someone is usually when they are attacking players for no apparent reason.

Age:..35 years old, thrice divorced, and living in a van down by the river

How about those name drops!? A few questions tho..

How do you like the 3-point line? Do you miss staring at steve alfords boy thighs while he wore those short shorts? YOU SHOT FREE THROWS WITH HIM TOO! OMG* TELL ME MORE! HOW ABOUT THAT TALK RADIO? Technology Baby!!!

*OMG=oh my gosh. its in the dictionary.

I'm sorry I pulled your chains, but you are really grinding my gears with your lust for PE. If you would yet again READ MY ORIGINAL POST you would see that I said he is a great kid who is most valuable as a role model/on court coach..these types of players are vital for young teams and I hope he stays around if he goes to med school here..with that being said, this is not a blog where i have to give out gumdrops, lolipops and taco-flavored kisses to all things billiken player related. THIS IS BILLIKENS.COM (300 voice) this kid is not better than the 4 other guards, kwamain excluded. kc? CS? MM? JJ? where does he get minutes that are not fill in? If he is playing that means that JJ and MM are not as good as we all think..and thats nones too good coach. i bet he gets around 7 min a game..happy now?

Final thought on DE: He is a great kid who is smart, extremely well spoken and obviously loves the game. The perfect definition of student-athlete. He may be good, he may not. but he is not TL3.

Back to your name drops. How were those tickets from the nose bleed section? Did you shoot free throws with magic too? DID HE SWEAT ON YOU?? ARE YOUR TEETH STILL THERE AFTER GRINDING THEM FOR SO LONG ON BOB KNIGHTS TEAMS? This is 2010 pal. I would name drop too but I dont want to hurt my toes. I may not have seen pre-aids magic play and I may not be 98 years old, but I have seen enough basketball and been fortunate enough to talk with great minds of the game to go back and forth all day about what you are seeing in todays game. Maybe you you should consider reading other sites and listening to talk radio..but if you want to stay up on your soap box, i will understand.

[Box and Won]

Age:..35 years old, thrice divorced, and living in a van down by the river

I figured you had to be around my age (also 35) based on your use of the word "gaylord" a few weeks ago.

[Quality Is Job 1]

For SLU standards TL3 IS on another level. Anyone who debates this is out of his or her gord. I have been following the program for 2 and a half decades since thats what we are going by now, and in that time I can count on one hand, former or current Billiken players who had the ability to single-handedly take over games. Tommie is one of them. Yeah his work ethic was awful but that has nothing to do with pure skills which is the debate you began. I hope and thinks DE can be very good if he adjusts his game at this level but he will not take over games on his own.

No, not really. Tommie Liddell III was a very good athlete, but SLU has had comparable talents through the years: Kevin Footes, Justin Love, Marque Perry (who, while quick, wasn't a high-riser), and others. There were some who didn't pan out. Now, Larry Hughes: that's a guy on another level!

[DoctorB]

you are a pesky one, ROAR -- I'll give you that. was the 3 divorce thing serious? if so, I believe it.

Still interested in other opinions on DE vs. Tommie -- I never said Evans was as great an athlete, btw, I'm just saying he is a comparable recruit/athlete. "not unlike" TL, I put it. If you check Scout -- which I just did -- Evans was the only 3-star of this class, and #37 at his position. Now I'm not a huge follower of that sort of thing and neither is RM & staff, but I'm just saying, Evans had some notoriety. It's not like TL was some McDonald 's AA or anything. Was TL 4-star? was TL #5 or 10 at his position? I doubt it.

Did Tommie really get an offer from UConn? that was one thing ROAR said that actually surprised me.

Anyway, I liked Tommie and he did have game. But Absurd is right he was no Larry Hughes and there have been others on the team since I've been here that I have admired more that TL. I'm talking about basketball players and I think by the time it is all said and done DE will be an excellent college basketball player. Plus he will fit the team and the school--and the coach, I hope-- better than TL ever could. All those things are part of my argument. Still wondering, all due respect: Why this huge exaggeration of the HUGE differences between the 2?

Basically, I am holding to my view that TL was a great get for Coach Soderberg, but in the end overrated and overhyped. Let's see how much progress Evans can make over 4 years.

[doowop]

DoctorB, if TL would have played four years under coach Soderberg, he would have been one of the best ever at SLU. To judge his and KL's years under coach RM is unfair to both of them. They both would have been all conference IMO their last two years had Soderberg not left. And the team could not have been much worse tham RM's first two teams. Also, if you are so used to top notch bb talent, how could you think PE will get meaningful minutes? If he does, MM and JJ are vastly overrated.