One and done

[slu72]

Good article on the one and done subject on Cnnsi. Basically saying make Frosh ineligible. The age 19 rule is really making a joke out of college for these kids. And now Calipari lands Knight and two other kids, one being The Turk, who will probably leave after one year. Sure hope UK's proud of their program. I prefer the way RM's doing it.

[billikenfan05]

Good article on the one and done subject on Cnnsi. Basically saying make Frosh ineligible. The age 19 rule is really making a joke out of college for these kids. And now Calipari lands Knight and two other kids, one being The Turk, who will probably leave after one year. Sure hope UK's proud of their program. I prefer the way RM's doing it.

I definitely like having kids for 4 years, but I wouldn't mind getting a one and done every so often.

[TheA_Bomb]

It doesn't really matter that much. There aren't that many players that are drafted each year. The ones that are get a lot of attention and are usually congregated on a few teams.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I definitely like having kids for 4 years, but I wouldn't mind getting a one and done every so often.

Exactly. I don't want one every year or a whole recruiting class of them, but every now and then it would be wonderful to watch a sure-fire, can't-miss NBA prospect don the Billiken uniform, even if it's only for a year or two.

[JMM28]

I wouldn't be surprised if, in LOCKOUT 2011, David Stern tries to get the age raised from 19 to 21. Perhaps he could do away with the age and make it similar to the NFL rule of 3 years out of high school.

You can believe that DStern is going for the jugular this time, and he will probably get everything he wants. If the players union is smart...

[bsheldon]

The year Larry was here was really fun--especially the timing of it. We had a 2 great years in 94-95 and 95-96 and then we had a break there. His arrival re-piqued the diminishing interest in the program.

Of course I would love to have a player or two of that caliber on the team every year--almost assured a dance ticket and more than likely a victory or two or three in the dance. However, I would much rather have players come into the program like WR did--an underweight, slightly uncoordinated, and definitely underdeveloped freshman and work his way up the ranks. His transition from year one to year two was phenomenal. I am excited to see what years 3 and 4 bring. I would love to see his game continue to improve in leaps and bounds and watch him become a true NBA first rounder after his senior season. Then of course do this simoultaneously with player after player over and over...in a perfect world.

I still think I could/would be a fan of the program if we were to magically become like a KY--an entirely new and different batch of players every single year. Year after year of one and dones. You would still have some role players to watch develop--although not nearly to the extent--as most of them won't be nearly as invovled in the games as a whole team of "non NBA-ers." Plus, you would be a top 25 team almost every year, which is always fun.

Again, I really like the way RM is building this program and if things continue to grow as we expect them to, hopefully we are in the discussion as a realistic place to go for some of the nation's top players and hen hopefully we start landing some of these. Then, we may have some one and dones. Again, not ideal, but I wouldn't complain if Brandon Knight would have said SLU instead of KY yesterday.

[slu72]

Again, I really like the way RM is building this program and if things continue to grow as we expect them to, hopefully we are in the discussion as a realistic place to go for some of the nation's top players and hen hopefully we start landing some of these. Then, we may have some one and dones. Again, not ideal, but I wouldn't complain if Brandon Knight would have said SLU instead of KY yesterday.

You're right. If Knight had come to SLU we'd all be going nuts right now. However, it's also fun watching a guy like KM develop his game, become a leader, and be a real student. You have a Knight for one year. And you know he's not really a student athlete but instead killing time and working on his game for 6 months... then it's sayonora. There was a discussion on first take about KY becoming known as the one and done school. This label obviously doesn't bother KY fans as long as they win. However, look at the teams in the final 4 this year... no rosters filled w/ one and doners. Even the UNC championship teams that sent a lot of kids to the NBA had rosters of mostly sophs and jrs. So a one and done program doesn't guarantee you'll grab the brass ring every year.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

I definitely like having kids for 4 years, but I wouldn't mind getting a one and done every so often.

Agreed. I enjoy watching our players grow and improve over their four years, but the year Hughes was here was an exciting year, the crowds were huge, and we made it to the tournament. With SLU, I don't think we have to worry about having a team of one and done players.

[davidnark]

I would like to see the rule change so that a kid can enter the draft straight out of high school but if the kid elects to go to school he should have to wait at least 3 years (maybe 2) before he can re-enter the draft. Only a handful of kids are good enough to go straight out of high school anyway, and requiring everyone else to stay 2 or 3 years would add some stability back to the college game and eliminate the sham of having kids spend one year in college pretending to be part of the academic system. Plus, a kid who stays 3 years and goes to the NBA still has a shot at getting a degree at some point like Shaq and Jordan did.

[Runnin'Billiken]

I would like to see the rule change so that a kid can enter the draft straight out of high school but if the kid elects to go to school he should have to wait at least 3 years (maybe 2) before he can re-enter the draft. Only a handful of kids are good enough to go straight out of high school anyway, and requiring everyone else to stay 2 or 3 years would add some stability back to the college game and eliminate the sham of having kids spend one year in college pretending to be part of the academic system. Plus, a kid who stays 3 years and goes to the NBA still has a shot at getting a degree at some point like Shaq and Jordan did.

Agreed. Like the MLB system, which works, or the NFL system (with that straight to pro option) which also works better. College is a privalege, not an obligation. If they don't want to be a student or get an education, they shouldn't have to.

[Hawk]

I would like to see the rule change so that a kid can enter the draft straight out of high school but if the kid elects to go to school he should have to wait at least 3 years (maybe 2) before he can re-enter the draft. Only a handful of kids are good enough to go straight out of high school anyway, and requiring everyone else to stay 2 or 3 years would add some stability back to the college game and eliminate the sham of having kids spend one year in college pretending to be part of the academic system. Plus, a kid who stays 3 years and goes to the NBA still has a shot at getting a degree at some point like Shaq and Jordan did.

+1

That's really what needs to be done.

[Hawk]

You're right. If Knight had come to SLU we'd all be going nuts right now. However, it's also fun watching a guy like KM develop his game, become a leader, and be a real student. You have a Knight for one year. And you know he's not really a student athlete but instead killing time and working on his game for 6 months... then it's sayonora. There was a discussion on first take about KY becoming known as the one and done school. This label obviously doesn't bother KY fans as long as they win. However, look at the teams in the final 4 this year... no rosters filled w/ one and doners. Even the UNC championship teams that sent a lot of kids to the NBA had rosters of mostly sophs and jrs. So a one and done program doesn't guarantee you'll grab the brass ring every year.

Again not coincidence that the teams that win big are experience laden. Talent alone can only get you so far.

[bsheldon]

You're right. If Knight had come to SLU we'd all be going nuts right now. However, it's also fun watching a guy like KM develop his game, become a leader, and be a real student. You have a Knight for one year. And you know he's not really a student athlete but instead killing time and working on his game for 6 months... then it's sayonora. There was a discussion on first take about KY becoming known as the one and done school. This label obviously doesn't bother KY fans as long as they win. However, look at the teams in the final 4 this year... no rosters filled w/ one and doners. Even the UNC championship teams that sent a lot of kids to the NBA had rosters of mostly sophs and jrs. So a one and done program doesn't guarantee you'll grab the brass ring every year.

Excellent point on the final four teams. I dare say (with no real research) that the vast majority of the teams that make it that far were real good "team" teams and had at least a couple of guys who have played and grown together for at least a couple of years.

The brass ring is a bit different for a program like KY and SLU over the past decade. Getting a one and doner for a program like slu has been for the last ten years would have been a great thing for the program--a trip to the dance and their brass ring. Just getting to the dance isn't that big deal for KY, winning it all is their brass ring. So, your point is perfect if KY truly becomes even more of a one and done prgram (if that is possible) they may never get their brass ring. For many other teams, though, they might get their brass ring by getting a one and done-r.

[billiken_roy]

I wouldn't be surprised if, in LOCKOUT 2011, David Stern tries to get the age raised from 19 to 21. Perhaps he could do away with the age and make it similar to the NFL rule of 3 years out of high school.

You can believe that DStern is going for the jugular this time, and he will probably get everything he wants. If the players union is smart...

i am totally against any age restrictions to go to the nba. if the kid in question is only in college to play basketball and the school is doing whatever is necessary just to keep him eligible until he can, imo that is the biggest contrived farce. if it was up to me, i'd ramp up all academic requirements and ncaa police work even more. make the nba develop a real minor league system to develop their own players. but there is no reason for colleges to be minor league professional development leagues.

the college scene would actually be better imo. let the pros be pros and let's have student athletes on the college courts.

[JMM28]

i am totally against any age restrictions to go to the nba. if the kid in question is only in college to play basketball and the school is doing whatever is necessary just to keep him eligible until he can, imo that is the biggest contrived farce. if it was up to me, i'd ramp up all academic requirements and ncaa police work even more. make the nba develop a real minor league system to develop their own players. but there is no reason for colleges to be minor league professional development leagues.

the college scene would actually be better imo. let the pros be pros and let's have student athletes on the college courts.

Completely agree. I thought the NBDL would be better utilized than it has been, but its just the CBA with the name changed. If they had 1 NBDL team for every 2 NBA teams, I think it might work better. Let them draft high schoolers and put them in the NBDL. Each team has a 6-7 man NBDL roster to pluck from through the season.

[Pirahna]

i am totally against any age restrictions to go to the nba. if the kid in question is only in college to play basketball and the school is doing whatever is necessary just to keep him eligible until he can, imo that is the biggest contrived farce. if it was up to me, i'd ramp up all academic requirements and ncaa police work even more. make the nba develop a real minor league system to develop their own players. but there is no reason for colleges to be minor league professional development leagues.

the college scene would actually be better imo. let the pros be pros and let's have student athletes on the college courts.

Agreed. The NBA markets players not teams. It basically uses the NCAA as its marketing program for future stars in its league. ESPN is a big culprit of this they hype up players like John Wall while they are in college then when they leave after a year the NBA can capitalize on all that free publicity it got from the NCAA and ESPN and just keep it rolling into the pros. The NBA actually is the one that makes the rule that the players have to spend the year out of High School so they can do this marketing system. It's smart but I'm not a fan of it personally I would much rather see a player mature in college for 3 years and develope under a true team oriented system.

[davidnark]

but there is no reason for colleges to be minor league professional development leagues. the college scene would actually be better imo. let the pros be pros and let's have student athletes on the college courts.

These aren't mutually exclusive things. The college game equally benefits from being the training and development ground for future NBA stars, and there is no reason to believe most of those stars can't also take the academics serious. In fact, arguably the three biggest NBA stars from the past decade--Jordan, Shaq, Duncan--have their college degrees. (Shaq even has an MBA.) I agree that the academic standards should be a priority and should be enforced, but I certainly don't wish the talent away from the college game into a meaningless development league. Of course, there are colleague leagues that don't recruit over players and don't worry about losing players to the NBA for those who are interested, but they aren't very popular.

[slu72]

Agreed. The NBA markets players not teams. It basically uses the NCAA as its marketing program for future stars in its league. ESPN is a big culprit of this they hype up players like John Wall while they are in college then when they leave after a year the NBA can capitalize on all that free publicity it got from the NCAA and ESPN and just keep it rolling into the pros. The NBA actually is the one that makes the rule that the players have to spend the year out of High School so they can do this marketing system. It's smart but I'm not a fan of it personally I would much rather see a player mature in college for 3 years and develope under a true team oriented system.

Do what Jennings did, go to Europe and do some serious growing up experiences mixed w/ some serious basketball training/work. If I had a son who was clearly gonna be a lottery pick or top 10, I'd tell him to skip the one year of college, which is a sham anyways, and hop a plane to Spain, Italy, Ukraine, etc. The 19 rule is the NBA's and it's not doing anyone any good except D. Stern. The KY fans will have their comeuppance soon enough though. Calapari will leave for greener pastures and his successor will be left with a near empty cupboard. And how can Calipari expect to recruit any serious non ready NBA players there? He'll reload with 3 or more players from the top of the 25 best unsigned kids and start probably 3-4 frosh next year. His rotation will include another 2 one and dones, so upperclassmen are nothing more than spectators and practice fodder, read Josh Harrelson. It's crazy.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

The 19 rule is the NBA's and it's not doing anyone any good except D. Stern.

So you don't think that this rule financially benefits the universities and NCAA? These players that should be in the NBA are now playing in college. The schools and the ncaa are making money off of showcasing these players that would not normally be there if it weren't for this rule.

The NBA is a business and has the right to make whatever rules they feel benefits their company. I think that if the players have the ability, they should be able to go to play professionally whenever they would like to...... and they can. If these kids want to play professional ball, they can play internationally somewhere.

[billiken_roy]

So you don't think that this rule financially benefits the universities and NCAA? These players that should be in the NBA are now playing in college. The schools and the ncaa are making money off of showcasing these players that would not normally be there if it weren't for this rule.

The NBA is a business and has the right to make whatever rules they feel benefits their company. I think that if the players have the ability, they should be able to go to play professionally whenever they would like to...... and they can. If these kids want to play professional ball, they can play internationally somewhere.

ok, my question to you is as an example, would the money that ohio state made this year because evan turner was on the team be any less if evan turner was in the nba? to help you along, ohio state has had an average attendance figure every year over the last 5 years between 15 and 17k. i.e. that star player didnt mean a thing.

[Clock_Tower]

I agree with Roy on this one. I could care less if kids skip college or if leave college early. If they don't want the education, the campus life and experiences, then don't let the door hit you... Anyone ever say, NCAA college basketball is great but if only Kevin Garnett, Darius Miles played ....

The whole age restriction things is nothing more than an artificial mechanism designed to keep the knuckle head 18 and 19 years from entering the NBA when nearly all (NBA owners and execs included) believe they are not yet ready for it. Collectively, the owners cannot pass on these kids out of fear that the youngster will be the next Kevin Garnett ... (insert your player name here). Therefore, out of fear of passing on the youngster only to have your rival organization take a chance on him and and produce him into the next NBA great, the NBA clubs reluctantly select the youngster, pay him based upon his potential alone. There are just not minor leagues to send these kids to and not enough NBA roster spots. When most of these youngsters turn out to be busts and the owners realize how much they overpaid for this bust, then they get buddy David Stern to try and pass regulations to protect themselves from themselves.

Nark. The NBA then tries to justify these restrictions claiming they are for really good for the youngster's safety, maturity level .... These restrictions will have no justifiable basis if the kids can go to the NBA at age 17 but then not got to the NBA at ages 18 and 19. No doubt the kids will file legal challenges and restrictions, as you know, cannot be arbitrary. The NCAA does not need these guys. You can take the top 10 players out of the NCAA each year and the sport will be just as exciting and just as profitable. Forcing these kids, who don't want to be in school, to remain in school would set the NCAA up for real damage and monetary lossess if the existing public perception (that the athtletes are not also students) is then increased even more. The natural and likely negative consequences of some of the captive kids (skip classes, sign w/ agents, receive money...) will just tarnish the image of the NCAA even more. At the some point, if the image is tarnished enough, then the sponsors will start dropping the NCAA and revenues will then go down.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

ok, my question to you is as an example, would the money that ohio state made this year because evan turner was on the team be any less if evan turner was in the nba? to help you along, ohio state has had an average attendance figure every year over the last 5 years between 15 and 17k. i.e. that star player didnt mean a thing.

Evan Turner is in his third year with Ohio State and I was speaking of "one and done" players and the money the universities and ncaa make off of them. But you got me thinking and helped me in my argument. Your numbers are a little off though. The Buckeyes averaged 13,411 fans per game this season with junior Evan Turner as their star, which is more than 4,100 fewer fans than Ohio State averaged during its run to the Final Four three seasons ago. These are significant numbers which show there was more of an interest in the team a few years back. The difference between this year's team and the team that went to the Final Four 3 years ago was that the Final Four team had 2 "one and done" players on that team (Conley, Oden). Those attendance numbers just show that the "one and done" players do make an impact, as they are showcased by their teams (and the NCAA in the tournament) to bring in more people, more viewers and more money.

[slu72]

Those attendance numbers just show that the "one and done" players do make an impact, as they are showcased by their teams (and the NCAA in the tournament) to bring in more people, more viewers and more money.

And they'll probably get there this year w/ Matta bringing in some studs. However, Columbus has been hit pretty hard by the economy and they may have had more of an impact on OSU hoops attendance. The economy doesn't matter as much when it comes to OSU football, since people travel from all over the state. And OSU fans would sell their children to see the Buckeyes at the shoe and get toasted at the Heiniegate party.