budget help for next season

[Cowboy]

-this is an idea that may move some money in the bball budget from one category (buy fees) to the travel (see charter) category in hopes of calming the waters

-i have no idea about these particulars, so if someone does fill us in please

-if you have parts of this that are missing, fill them in

-also this assumes at least part of the issues recently with rick is the way we are traveling

-the idea...take 3 buy games and instead of the buy fee (which it seems like is at least $25k) schedule two for ones with the additional road game played each season for the next 3 seassons

-this gives up one home game each season and the on site revenue (parking, concessions, walk up netted agains teh cost to turn on the lights) for that game as i do not propose a change in the cost of season tickets or the bclub fees to purchase tickets

-the two teams that make sense to me, if they were buy games, are semo and siue, as these are close enough for fans to travel if they desire, the third team (or all of teams for that matter if semo and siue are not buys) is what needs to be determined

-these schools (semo and siue) are close enough where the cost for slu to play the game is the bus ride, no hotel or plane needed, not sure we have another school in that category but we may need to find one that requires hotel and some food costs

-the "saved" money can then be applied to the charter expenses

-if rick is sincere about academic progress and charters are such a big help, not sure how he could be against this

-this probably only gets 2 additional charters, but 2 more is better than whatever number we have now

-just a thought and if this has already been proposed, my apologies, but i don't recall it

-for our readers in the adept, once we have this figured out, take it as your own to whoever needs to hear it

-sorry for the disjointed parts, rough saturday night trying to forget the richmond game so the cobwebs have not yet been swept away

[Taj79]

Anybody know what it costs to charter an airplane? I seriously do not however, let's say it costs $5,000. Roundtrip. And say we have ten trips per year --- busing to Carbondale or Springfield. So $50,000 for the airplane. Simple math.

Now, those same trips cost what for commercial air? What's the difference? How much are we talking about here? You are still going to pay the same freight for hotels, and meals, and transport to and from airports. What are the real costs and is this something you want to fight over?

While its bigger nickles and dimes, its still nickles and dimes. How does Villanova, for example, get its entire football team to an away game at Applachin State? How does Dayton get its football team to San Diego for a league game against Sand Diego University? Sure, High Point can drive to Coastal Carolina and Radford, but Boston College to Miami? I fly alot and I have never been on a flight with a college basketball team. Women's volleyball? Yes. Men's soccer? Yes. Wait -- I take that back, once I was in an airport with a team ---- IUPFW or IUPUI.

The point being, we are not doing this alone. How do the others do it?

[J.J. Loscutoff]

Or, why not take a couple of buy fees from playing anyone "long bus-ride" close at their place early in the season say, Louisville (new arena), Kentucky (Rupp, what 27K?), Memphis, Illinois, Indiana, KU, or heck even maybe that school in the MidMo. Or find someone willing to pay some top $ anywhere. The game will be televised if it is against a BCS team. It seems to me that Temple would play anyone anywhere anytime and it seemed to work for them. If SLU is going to lose a game to Bowling Green, cripes SLU may as well lose to Ohio State (or Michigan State).

I don't buy that crap that "nobody wants to play SLU." I mean, who wouldn't play SLU at home, the way SLU plays on the road. How many road conference games has SLU won in the A-10? With that road record, I am sure that folks are quaking at the very thought of SLU hanging 45 on them in their own place. (BTW, has anyone out there analyzed BB scoring? It sure seems that the Bills seem to be shut down more than anyone around--of course, we are all close to this situation. But, 20 vs. GW; 36 vs. Dayton, 36 vs. Richmond, 40 in the A-10 Tourney a few years back).

The thing that gets me is the Jeckel and Hyde aspect of the program. (1) Building a $60mm plus arena with no parking garage (which, could analyzed as a stand-alone project--you telling me that many of our long-time fans would not pay $10-15 per game to park inside a garage where they could walk to the game inside and leave their coats in the car?). (2) Hiring a top dollar coach and then apparently abandoning charter flights. Why not see whether SLU could sell out a whole plane and take the band, cheerleaders (oops, forgot, SaintSations), donors, staff, faculty, students, students who win a drawing for a trip to go to Olean(!) or NYC, or Philly, or any of the road destinations) and travel "well" to the SEVEN conference road games.

Suppose it costs $100,000 a game to charter a big jet. Charge the students a $100 annual fee and give them free hoop tickets to men's and women's games (you think the men's team is struggling, yikes). That would be $800k to $1.2mm, depending on whether UG or all students were charged. Many schools charge extra fees for "prepaid athletic attendance." Just announce it in plenty of time (unlike the graduation fee) so that students who wish to leave SLU instead of paying the extra $100 get the chance to vote with their feet. And the ones who stay, no tears.

[Cowboy]

Anybody know what it costs to charter an airplane? I seriously do not however, let's say it costs $5,000. Roundtrip. And say we have ten trips per year --- busing to Carbondale or Springfield. So $50,000 for the airplane. Simple math.

Now, those same trips cost what for commercial air? What's the difference? How much are we talking about here? You are still going to pay the same freight for hotels, and meals, and transport to and from airports. What are the real costs and is this something you want to fight over?

While its bigger nickles and dimes, its still nickles and dimes. How does Villanova, for example, get its entire football team to an away game at Applachin State? How does Dayton get its football team to San Diego for a league game against Sand Diego University? Sure, High Point can drive to Coastal Carolina and Radford, but Boston College to Miami? I fly alot and I have never been on a flight with a college basketball team. Women's volleyball? Yes. Men's soccer? Yes. Wait -- I take that back, once I was in an airport with a team ---- IUPFW or IUPUI.

The point being, we are not doing this alone. How do the others do it?

-i believe someone mentioned it is $25k to charter, i don't exactly remember where the figure got in my mind

-back in the day at this time of year there was a very good chance you would see at least one bball team at lambert, not so much anymore

-i would be interested to know how other schools in our conf and other local schools travel

[adramos77]

Anybody know what it costs to charter an airplane? I seriously do not however, let's say it costs $5,000. Roundtrip. And say we have ten trips per year --- busing to Carbondale or Springfield. So $50,000 for the airplane. Simple math.

Now, those same trips cost what for commercial air? What's the difference? How much are we talking about here? You are still going to pay the same freight for hotels, and meals, and transport to and from airports. What are the real costs and is this something you want to fight over?

While its bigger nickles and dimes, its still nickles and dimes. How does Villanova, for example, get its entire football team to an away game at Applachin State? How does Dayton get its football team to San Diego for a league game against Sand Diego University? Sure, High Point can drive to Coastal Carolina and Radford, but Boston College to Miami? I fly alot and I have never been on a flight with a college basketball team. Women's volleyball? Yes. Men's soccer? Yes. Wait -- I take that back, once I was in an airport with a team ---- IUPFW or IUPUI.

The point being, we are not doing this alone. How do the others do it?

It's actually the University of San Diego. Get it right.

[GOSLU68]

-this is an idea that may move some money in the bball budget from one category (buy fees) to the travel (see charter) category in hopes of calming the waters

-i have no idea about these particulars, so if someone does fill us in please

-if you have parts of this that are missing, fill them in

-also this assumes at least part of the issues recently with rick is the way we are traveling

-the idea...take 3 buy games and instead of the buy fee (which it seems like is at least $25k) schedule two for ones with the additional road game played each season for the next 3 seassons

-this gives up one home game each season and the on site revenue (parking, concessions, walk up netted agains teh cost to turn on the lights) for that game as i do not propose a change in the cost of season tickets or the bclub fees to purchase tickets

-the two teams that make sense to me, if they were buy games, are semo and siue, as these are close enough for fans to travel if they desire, the third team (or all of teams for that matter if semo and siue are not buys) is what needs to be determined

-these schools (semo and siue) are close enough where the cost for slu to play the game is the bus ride, no hotel or plane needed, not sure we have another school in that category but we may need to find one that requires hotel and some food costs

-the "saved" money can then be applied to the charter expenses

-if rick is sincere about academic progress and charters are such a big help, not sure how he could be against this

-this probably only gets 2 additional charters, but 2 more is better than whatever number we have now

-just a thought and if this has already been proposed, my apologies, but i don't recall it

-for our readers in the adept, once we have this figured out, take it as your own to whoever needs to hear it

-sorry for the disjointed parts, rough saturday night trying to forget the richmond game so the cobwebs have not yet been swept away

our record at Carbondale is miserable; this is not the answer

The answer may be getting sponsors to telecast the road games and use the proceeds to pay for the charter; anyone have an in at Enterprise leasing

for example?

[Cowboy]

our record at Carbondale is miserable; this is not the answer

The answer may be getting sponsors to telecast the road games and use the proceeds to pay for the charter; anyone have an in at Enterprise leasing

for example?

-where does carbondale enter into this?

-sure it would be easier to find someone to give the money, if they were out there

[slu72]

our record at Carbondale is miserable; this is not the answer

The answer may be getting sponsors to telecast the road games and use the proceeds to pay for the charter; anyone have an in at Enterprise leasing

for example?

A friend of mine has a brother who owns a jet, a gulfstream that seats 12 people. The charter rate is like $5k and hour for airtime and some kind of flat fee for idle time depending upon how long it sits. There may also be some airport fees. But if you double this for a team, it seems like you'd be paying around $10k an hour flight time. So my guess would be for our longest A-10 game... your probably looking somewhere between $35-40k per flight. What's commercial? How many people do they take on the road 25? Say you get a discount at $300 ahead + baggage fees of $100, and you're looking at $10k. Pretty substanstial savings but then figure they're staying on the road an extra night or two with commercial and the savings decrease. No matter how you look at it, I dont' think charter vs commercial had anything to do with the dismal performance we witnessed on Saturday.

[Clock_Tower]

Three (3) points:

1. Chris May needs to get action with the league and the TV revenue. The current deal is killing us. Other teams in the A10 are televising their games locally - and making money!! This is needed: more money and exposure. With more money, SLU can afford some more charters. While I knew it was long-shot, CL did mention that SLU's attorneys were exploring options and even suggested lititgation regarding the A10 contract. What happened? Then, CL said things would improve. I, for one, don't see improvement. Then, we went almost a year w/o an AD. Chris May arrived and said the TV package would improve. I still see very little improvement. To date, we have largely heard nothing. Maybe things have improved. Maybe not. Either way, SLU is not talking much at all. Yes, we are on WXOS 101.1 FM (better signal than 590 AM) but if our ratings continue to lag, our head coach won't do a radio show, we will lose this contract. Would not be surprised if SLU loses $25.000 (cost of a charter flight) by not doing the radio show!!

2. Chris May needs to get action with the league and find ways to improve the travel situation. More combined trips. Games played closer together (Thurs - Sat) when on the road. Less time spent away from the classroom. With a bad economy, revenues down, less travel options at Lambert, it is obvious why Fr. Biondi wants to cut charters and why RM is so against flying commercial. If Lambert had the flights it did even 5 years ago, flying commercial would not be so bad.

3. Going cheap cheap now and pissing off the guy who might finally get SLU to become a "Top 50" program is not the answer. I sure hope Fr. Biondi is talking with Dr. Chaif and Novelly. SLU has obviously flown some charter flights this year. No one has said SLU will never fly charter again. My guess is that we are talking about 4 charters extra per year - $100,000. To SLU, and Fr. "Cheap Cheap" Biondi, this is like an unsurmountable figure. For other NCAA programs, this is pocket change. Other programs around the NCAA will an additional $100K to $500K in salary this Spring to reward their coaches and make it less likely to leave for greener pastures. SLU, of course, won't. This whole situation is really foolish. You don't buy a Hummer and then complain about gas mileage.

[WVBilliken]

I don't know if this happens routinely in the Big East, but I noticed that Louisville's men and woman's teams both played at West Virginia this past weekend.

Why not have the A-10 schedule both the men's and woman's team on the same day? That would save the men's and women's teams from having to travel separately to places like Richmond. Sure would make chartering a plane seem a lot more economical.

[bonwich]

-i believe someone mentioned it is $25k to charter, i don't exactly remember where the figure got in my mind

-back in the day at this time of year there was a very good chance you would see at least one bball team at lambert, not so much anymore

-i would be interested to know how other schools in our conf and other local schools travel

I would be interested to know, specifically, how Creighton and Marquette travel.

[Cowboy]

Three (3) points:

1. Chris May needs to get action with the league and the TV revenue. The current deal is killing us. Other teams in the A10 are televising their games locally - and making money!! This is needed: more money and exposure. With more money, SLU can afford some more charters. While I knew it was long-shot, CL did mention that SLU's attorneys were exploring options and even suggested lititgation regarding the A10 contract. What happened? Then, CL said things would improve. I, for one, don't see improvement. Then, we went almost a year w/o an AD. Chris May arrived and said the TV package would improve. I still see very little improvement. To date, we have largely heard nothing. Maybe things have improved. Maybe not. Either way, SLU is not talking much at all. Yes, we are on WXOS 101.1 FM (better signal than 590 AM) but if our ratings continue to lag, our head coach won't do a radio show, we will lose this contract. Would not be surprised if SLU loses $25.000 (cost of a charter flight) by not doing the radio show!!

2. Chris May needs to get action with the league and find ways to improve the travel situation. More combined trips. Games played closer together (Thurs - Sat) when on the road. Less time spent away from the classroom. With a bad economy, revenues down, less travel options at Lambert, it is obvious why Fr. Biondi wants to cut charters and why RM is so against flying commercial. If Lambert had the flights it did even 5 years ago, flying commercial would not be so bad.

3. Going cheap cheap now and pissing off the guy who might finally get SLU to become a "Top 50" program is not the answer. I sure hope Fr. Biondi is talking with Dr. Chaif and Novelly. SLU has obviously flown some charter flights this year. No one has said SLU will never fly charter again. My guess is that we are talking about 4 charters extra per year - $100,000. To SLU, and Fr. "Cheap Cheap" Biondi, this is like an unsurmountable figure. For other NCAA programs, this is pocket change. Other programs around the NCAA will an additional $100K to $500K in salary this Spring to reward their coaches and make it less likely to leave for greener pastures. SLU, of course, won't. This whole situation is really foolish. You don't buy a Hummer and then complain about gas mileage.

-tv deal is not the best, no doubt, but look at our ratings, they quite frankly suck, so i would guess for slu games to be on tv the athdept would have to buy the time and then sell the ads or give the time to the bschool, law school, etc to advertise their programs

-who is making what amount of money?

-why does it have to be on the big time donors? if half the members of our board would send an additional $100 to the bclub it would be $72,500

-i agree that we seem close to breaking through, let's not hinder our progress now, see the money as an investment, not an expense

[Clock_Tower]

-tv deal is not the best, no doubt, but look at our ratings, they quite frankly suck, so i would guess for slu games to be on tv the athdept would have to buy the time and then sell the ads or give the time to the bschool, law school, etc to advertise their programs

-who is making what amount of money?

-why does it have to be on the big time donors? if half the members of our board would send an additional $100 to the bclub it would be $72,500

-i agree that we seem close to breaking through, let's not hinder our progress now, see the money as an investment, not an expense

Doesn't have to be on the big-time donors alone, but Dr. Chaif and Novelly are paying 1/2 of RM's salary. Fr. Biondi, on his own, did not decide to make a real commitment to basketball. Yes, he agreed to build the new arena but he would never have agreed to hire RM, pay him $1 million/year, upgrade to charters, hire tutors/strength coach, etc. w/o the backing of the big donors. To me, this all seems to be the same thing. Again, you don't buy a Hummer and then complain about the gas mileage.

[adramos77]

I'm still in shock about the whole "contracts" situation. How Dan Donigan goes "month-to-month" makes our A.D. sound like a welfare office.

I'd like to know a percentage of major D-I athletic programs that operate in the Monty Pythonish ways that Saint Louis U. operates. Benny Hill would also like to know.

[Cowboy]

Doesn't have to be on the big-time donors alone, but Dr. Chaif and Novelly are paying 1/2 of RM's salary. Fr. Biondi, on his own, did not decide to make a real commitment to basketball. Yes, he agreed to build the new arena but he would never have agreed to hire RM, pay him $1 million/year, upgrade to charters, hire tutors/strength coach, etc. w/o the backing of the big donors. To me, this all seems to be the same thing. Again, you don't buy a Hummer and then complain about the gas mileage.

-clock, who in the a10 is making what amount of money on their tv? we need to figure out what we can learn from them

-we just need to figure out a way to get more money into the program overall, and in this economic climate that is a big challenge, but hopefully one we can overcome

[jimbofive]

I'm still in shock about the whole "contracts" situation. How Dan Donigan goes "month-to-month" makes our A.D. sound like a welfare office.

I'd like to know a percentage of major D-I athletic programs that operate in the Monty Pythonish ways that Saint Louis U. operates. Benny Hill would also like to know.

I believe the term you're looking for is slightly more obvious and even more apropos...

[Clock_Tower]

-clock, who in the a10 is making what amount of money on their tv? we need to figure out what we can learn from them

-we just need to figure out a way to get more money into the program overall, and in this economic climate that is a big challenge, but hopefully one we can overcome

I don't have the info so I'm not real sure. From much earlier posts, though, believe X, UMass and the Philly schools are getting on TV despite the A10. Let's face it: winning sure helps and we have yet to win in now RM's 3rd years.

I suspect that schools like Fordham, St. Bonnie and Duquesne never received much TV before the A10 and I doubt they are getting much now. Still, they don't miss what they never had and they probably do enjoy the A10 TV money. As mentioned in earlier threads, SLU had been in with other top & regional schools such as Cincy, Louisville and Memphis. We had been getting a good share of the conference money but that's long gone. Now, the A10, I understand, is splitting some of the A10 TV money - not all monies - 14 ways. For schools like Fordham, St. Bonnie and Duquesne, seems like the A10 TV contract - $1 million - is the greatest thing to ever happen to them. For X, not the case. Still, because of their past history and current teams, together with name recognition and ratings, they are able to not only get the A10 broadcasts but also get on Fox Sports Ohio. We have the Blues who take most of the time slots, and even if there is an opening and no Mizzou, etc, our ratings are so low that FSM probably doesn't want us. Even if we broke even, being on the local TV (Charter) gave the team some exposure and the fans something to follow.

Those of us on this Board, we all see the progress and see the bright future, but the average St. Louis sports fan is shaking his head, wondering what's wrong with SLU and asking why RM is not yet turning things around. Same with many older supporters and, most likely, advertisers of the program. Bad economy, NCAA clearace issues, .500 basketball team, young kids, HC who doesn't want to mingle with the local media... Chris May defintely has a tough job. The trouble is, though, that I see the program doing little to help. SLU basketball program = RM. That's just not a good situation. Once RM starts winning, then SLU will start to look good. To me, that's not acceptable.

[billiken_roy]

Chris May needs to get action with the league and the TV revenue. The current deal is killing us. Other teams in the A10 are televising their games locally - and making money!! This is needed: more money and exposure. With more money, SLU can afford some more charters. While I knew it was long-shot, CL did mention that SLU's attorneys were exploring options and even suggested lititgation regarding the A10 contract. What happened? Then, CL said things would improve. I, for one, don't see improvement. Then, we went almost a year w/o an AD. Chris May arrived and said the TV package would improve. I still see very little improvement. To date, we have largely heard nothing. Maybe things have improved. Maybe not. Either way, SLU is not talking much at all. Yes, we are on WXOS 101.1 FM (better signal than 590 AM) but if our ratings continue to lag, our head coach won't do a radio show, we will lose this contract. Would not be surprised if SLU loses $25.000 (cost of a charter flight) by not doing the radio show!!

clock i think the problem with the a-10 tv is that cstv was insisting that the local providers pony up profit dollars or no billikens. in the pre-A-10 days, slu probably not only didnt make anything, i am betting they paid to be on tv beyond having to find ALL the willing sponsors for charter. not saying that was bad, i agree we need exposure, but it is no wonder cstv put a stop to that. the likes of xavier, dayton, temple etc probably already have the local network of sponsors to allow a local provider to pony up the money.

[Clock_Tower]

clock i think the problem with the a-10 tv is that cstv was insisting that the local providers pony up profit dollars or no billikens. in the pre-A-10 days, slu probably not only didnt make anything, i am betting they paid to be on tv beyond having to find ALL the willing sponsors for charter. not saying that was bad, i agree we need exposure, but it is no wonder cstv put a stop to that. the likes of xavier, dayton, temple etc probably already have the local network of sponsors to allow a local provider to pony up the money.

Probably right about X, UD and Temple. I know, for instance, that the locals in Dayton Ohio have NOTHING else all year long. All they have is UD basketball and you would think they are an NBA team the way they are covered locally. No doubt they have local providers.

The problem with the A10 contract, of course, is that if you are not a top team - or are attractive to the other East Coast TV markets - there is not only no coverage but the existence of the contract PREVENTS local coverage even when the A10 is not interested.

[billiken_roy]

Probably right about X, UD and Temple. I know, for instance, that the locals in Dayton Ohio have NOTHING else all year long. All they have is UD basketball and you would think they are an NBA team the way they are covered locally. No doubt they have local providers.

The problem with the A10 contract, of course, is that if you are not a top team - or are attractive to the other East Coast TV markets - there is not only no coverage but the existence of the contract PREVENTS local coverage even when the A10 is not interested.

i googled "things to do in dayton" and this was the top website:

http://www.10best.com/Dayton,OH/

i thought it was odd they could only come up with 8 things.

one question, what's a boonshoft? anybody?

Best Attractions & Activities"

in Dayton

Boonshoft Museum of Discovery

America's Packard Museum

National Afro-American Museum & Cultural Center

National Aviation Hall of Fame

Brookville Historical Society's Spitler House and Museum

Robert & Elaine Stein Galleries

National Museum of the United States Air Force

Dayton Art Institute

[bonwich]

I believe this depicts the term "giving him the old Boonshoft."

[adramos77]

i googled "things to do in dayton" and this was the top website:

http://www.10best.com/Dayton,OH/

i thought it was odd they could only come up with 8 things.

one question, what's a boonshoft? anybody?

Best Attractions & Activities"

in Dayton

Boonshoft Museum of Discovery

America's Packard Museum

National Afro-American Museum & Cultural Center

National Aviation Hall of Fame

Brookville Historical Society's Spitler House and Museum

Robert & Elaine Stein Galleries

National Museum of the United States Air Force

Dayton Art Institute

Roger Clemens' birthplace should be on there.

[Iggy]

That Air Force Museum is great.

[Tonka]

That Air Force Museum is great.

Can somebody tell me why the charter flights were canceled? Also, were they canceled or were they cut back on?

[bonwich]

Can somebody tell me why the charter flights were canceled? Also, were they canceled or were they cut back on?

Nobody can really say anything, because the athletic department hasn't addressed the subject directly, and I'm pretty sure no one in the media has reported anything but hearsay and second-hand. I'd suggest someone ask some very straightforward questions at the next Billiken Club meeting.