NEW Ellis thread

[DoctorB]

that old Ellis thread is getting WAY tiresome, and I just want to know:

what precisely is the basis for saying he scored 10 points below acceptable? did it come from a facebook site???

is it just me or does anyone else find all that pretty dubious? is there any confirmation from ANYONE regarding the truthfulness of that claim??

I find all that steamy debate about Ellis and testing pretty hard to take, given the fact that there is no confirmation and it's all based on hearsay from some website. Or am I missing something? Did Ellis say it himself???

The other thing that seems to be missing is the very obvious (from an educator's perspective) problems with standardized testing in general. Not simply from the perspective of foreign students.

[J.J. Loscutoff]

DoctorB, I agree that a new thread containing some Ellis facts would be greatly appreciated.

With respect, I do think, however, that standardized tests are not always the "boogie-man." As you know, there is a joint hypothesis problem with respect to standardized tests. Also, unless one uses an individual test for each student, most college exams and quizes are "standardized" to some extent.

JJL

[slu72]

DoctorB, I agree that a new thread containing some Ellis facts would be greatly appreciated.

With respect, I do think, however, that standardized tests are not always the "boogie-man." As you know, there is a joint hypothesis problem with respect to standardized tests. Also, unless one uses an individual test for each student, most college exams and quizes are "standardized" to some extent.

JJL

I love it, an old school Celts fan of Jungle Jim, the NBA's original hatchet man. Anyways, I'm just glad we got off the petty BS about scores, what test, asking for apologies, etc. Somewhat typical of this board's behavior for the last year or two it starts out about one thing and then veers off into some *** for tat argument between certain unnamed posters (you know who you are). But as I understand it, Dr. B, the info about the short 10 points came from CE's facebook page, where he's also supposed to have stated he's showing up in STL in mid December. Right now I think the atttitude of the board is where all bracing for an NCAA screw job. Which is way too sad. I would love to have seen how those two Chicago games would have gone had CE been on the floor.

[Guest BillikenReport]

that old Ellis thread is getting WAY tiresome, and I just want to know:

what precisely is the basis for saying he scored 10 points below acceptable? did it come from a facebook site???

is it just me or does anyone else find all that pretty dubious? is there any confirmation from ANYONE regarding the truthfulness of that claim??

I find all that steamy debate about Ellis and testing pretty hard to take, given the fact that there is no confirmation and it's all based on hearsay from some website. Or am I missing something? Did Ellis say it himself???

The other thread started because someone took info from Cody's facebook site and posted it here.

I can confirm that Cody came up short on the test. I think he's planning on taking more tests while also waiting to hear if SLU's appeal for his eligibility is decided by the NCAA.

[Box and Won]

I get the feeling that Ellis is Upchurch 2.0 and we're still going to be talking about him 20 years from now.

[Clock_Tower]

The other thread started because someone took info from Cody's facebook site and posted it here.

I can confirm that Cody came up short on the test. I think he's planning on taking more tests while also waiting to hear if SLU's appeal for his eligibility is decided by the NCAA.

Thanks Nate. Can you confirm if CE is, in fact, coming to St. Louis in December? If so, I wonder why? I realize that a visit to campus is not the same thing as enrolling in school and signing loan papers in the event he is not cleared but have things really changed at all since August? Should we read into his possible presence here in the Lou as anything other than he is bored and wants to visit CS, RM and the guys?

[kshoe]

Thanks Nate. Can you confirm if CE is, in fact, coming to St. Louis in December? If so, I wonder why? I realize that a visit to campus is not the same thing as enrolling in school and signing loan papers in the event he is not cleared but have things really changed at all since August? Should we read into his possible presence here in the Lou as anything other than he is bored and wants to visit CS, RM and the guys?

Is it possible he would be able to practice with the team during the semester break on the assumption that he will get cleared by the start of the 2nd semester?

[jimbofive]

I heard the exact same thing from a guaranteed source a few days prior to this breaking and was asked not to repeat it. Now that the dog's out of the carseat, I'll repeat it. The SAT score is definitely the issue and CE BARELY missed it.

These scores don't typically change much, but it can easily go up by 10 points. Just a shame that we haven't had him since August, because I think we'd have a really good shot at being 6-0 right now. However, if he can get here in time to impact the conference schedule, I think we'll be sitting pretty well anyways.

[Clock_Tower]

I heard the exact same thing from a guaranteed source a few days prior to this breaking and was asked not to repeat it. Now that the dog's out of the carseat, I'll repeat it. The SAT score is definitely the issue and CE BARELY missed it.

These scores don't typically change much, but it can easily go up by 10 points. Just a shame that we haven't had him since August, because I think we'd have a really good shot at being 6-0 right now. However, if he can get here in time to impact the conference schedule, I think we'll be sitting pretty well anyways.

Thanks Jimbo. Unless I a misreading the sitution, it seems the SAT score was going to a possible resolution to him qualifying as opposed to the issue all along. I thought the issue all along was the pass/fail grade(s) or is that only part of the issue? Being a foreign student, did CE even take the SAT last year? I thought foreign student/athletes do not have to take the SAT, or do they?

[jimbofive]

Thanks Jimbo. Unless I a misreading the sitution, it seems the SAT score was going to a possible resolution to him qualifying as opposed to the issue all along. I thought the issue all along was the pass/fail grade(s) or is that only part of the issue? Being a foreign student, did CE even take the SAT last year? I thought foreign student/athletes do not have to take the SAT, or do they?

I don't know anything more than that the NCAA was requiring CE to acquire a certain SAT score (in addition to other conditions that he had either met or had imposed upon him) and that he was 10 points shy. I assume that originally he flat out didn't qualify because of the BS pass/fail class, and they created a special "worst case" scenario for him and said that if he maxed out his SAT, they would take that as his qualification.

Don't know anything about his grades, just that the NCAA said 1010, he got 1000 and they said show me more.

[slu72]

I don't know anything more than that the NCAA was requiring CE to acquire a certain SAT score (in addition to other conditions that he had either met or had imposed upon him) and that he was 10 points shy. I assume that originally he flat out didn't qualify because of the BS pass/fail class, and they created a special "worst case" scenario for him and said that if he maxed out his SAT, they would take that as his qualification.

Don't know anything about his grades, just that the NCAA said 1010, he got 1000 and they said show me more.

Timmerman reported the NCAA was studying SLU's appeal and a decision should come one way or the other in the next two weeks. This is just pure unadulteraded bureaurocracy on the part of the NCAA. Cripes, call that school down under and have them say, "hey, Mr. NCAAA man, we made a mistake, that course wasn't pass fail, CE got an A+". That's what Calipari, Pitino, Huggins, Self, or _________________ fill in the blank would do.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Thanks Nate. Can you confirm if CE is, in fact, coming to St. Louis in December? If so, I wonder why? I realize that a visit to campus is not the same thing as enrolling in school and signing loan papers in the event he is not cleared but have things really changed at all since August? Should we read into his possible presence here in the Lou as anything other than he is bored and wants to visit CS, RM and the guys?

It is my understanding that Ellis isn't coming to St. Louis until he is cleared by the NCAA.

[billiken_roy]

Timmerman reported the NCAA was studying SLU's appeal and a decision should come one way or the other in the next two weeks. This is just pure unadulteraded bureaurocracy on the part of the NCAA. Cripes, call that school down under and have them say, "hey, Mr. NCAAA man, we made a mistake, that course wasn't pass fail, CE got an A+". That's what Calipari, Pitino, Huggins, Self, or _________________ fill in the blank would do.

i agree. imo that was the simplest solution. get the school in question to make it a letter grade. hell if they said it was a "pass" there should be no reason they wouldnt at minimum give it a "D" then correct?

[cheesycow]

Timmerman reported the NCAA was studying SLU's appeal and a decision should come one way or the other in the next two weeks. This is just pure unadulteraded bureaurocracy on the part of the NCAA. Cripes, call that school down under and have them say, "hey, Mr. NCAAA man, we made a mistake, that course wasn't pass fail, CE got an A+". That's what Calipari, Pitino, Huggins, Self, or _________________ fill in the blank would do.

Chock full of integrity.

[billiken_roy]

Chock full of integrity.

cheesy, i dont think there is anything wrong with a high school reclassifying a "pass" grade to the appropriate letter grade. now if slu72 meant make a deserving "D" an "A" then that would be wrong. but his post didnt say that.

[cheesycow]

cheesy, i dont think there is anything wrong with a high school reclassifying a "pass" grade to the appropriate letter grade. now if slu72 meant make a deserving "D" an "A" then that would be wrong. but his post didnt say that.

It was more about him suggesting SLU should resort to Calipari tactics just to get ellis eligible, not the letter grade adjustment. I think a minimum of a D would be an appropriate translation and said so in the other thread.

[Clock_Tower]

It was more about him suggesting SLU should resort to Calipari tactics just to get ellis eligible, not the letter grade adjustment. I think a minimum of a D would be an appropriate translation and said so in the other thread.

Absurd. Sorry, but a D is not a passing grade. Anyone with a D in each of the classess will not remain in college very long.

[willie]

Absurd. Sorry, but a D is not a passing grade. Anyone with a D in each of the classess will not remain in college very long.

I don't know about that. I had a frat brother who stuck around for 6 years with a bunch of D's.

[billiken_roy]

Absurd. Sorry, but a D is not a passing grade. Anyone with a D in each of the classess will not remain in college very long.

clock, i was under the impression it was only one class. and the "D" would be the minimum grade and according to the board, ellis grades are so strong that one "D" mixed in wouldnt affect his GPA enough to make him ineligible.

however the board thinks the ncaa is considering a "pass" like an incomplete and thus leaving him an entire required course short of qualifying.

it isnt a matter that ellis deserved a "D" grade, it was a matter that the ncaa is insisting on a letter grade so giving him the worst case scenario grade supposedly would fix all.

[cheesycow]

Absurd. Sorry, but a D is not a passing grade. Anyone with a D in each of the classess will not remain in college very long.

I'm not suggesting he deserves a D, I'm suggesting that a D would be better than an incomplete.

[GOSLU68]

I'm not suggesting he deserves a D, I'm suggesting that a D would be better than an incomplete.

pass fail is not the same as audit or incomplete

[cheesycow]

pass fail is not the same as audit or incomplete

Apparently not in the eyes of the NCAA.

[MB73]

Does anybody really know all of the facts on this? Seems like total speculation, with only a few known details. Lack of info from SLU and RM makes me think there is more to this...

[joe_davola]

All I know is his plan is to come in mid December...this was after he knew he was short on the SAT so take it as you want. From what I understand he is still dedicated to taking the tests until he gets the score he needs. He's not giving up....Good sign

[Clock_Tower]

clock, i was under the impression it was only one class. and the "D" would be the minimum grade and according to the board, ellis grades are so strong that one "D" mixed in wouldnt affect his GPA enough to make him ineligible.

however the board thinks the ncaa is considering a "pass" like an incomplete and thus leaving him an entire required course short of qualifying.

it isnt a matter that ellis deserved a "D" grade, it was a matter that the ncaa is insisting on a letter grade so giving him the worst case scenario grade supposedly would fix all.

Understood. As you mention, tthe trouble is, there HAS to be alot more to the story than reported. Pass/Fail cannot be that unusual and there has to be precedent for this situation. CE did not choose to take Pass/Fail electives in lieu of basic English classes and now have only himself to blame. There is no way the NCAA can treat a single Pass Fail grade - in which he presumably passed (what if he failed?) -- and call it an incomplete, that he didn't take the class or that he received and F or even a D.

Still unsure if anyone even knows if CE was required to take the SAT as part of normal enrollment/clearance. Did CS have to take the SAT? Do all foreign student have to take the SAT to be cleared by the NCAA to play sports?

I am no fan of the NCAA but I've got to believe that if Parkway School changed to a Pass/Fail, the class valedictorian would not be in this predictament.

Isn't Prop 48 still around? Isn't there a sliding scale/average? Anyone know the grades/test scores? Low test scores can be offset with higher grades and vice versa??