Thoughts on Improving the A-10

[billiken_roy]

I get that, but what number is Ivy. The origin of the name does not come from IV. Try again smart guy.

click on the link right above your above response from cornell.

[MB73]

No direct flights to New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Dayton, Cincinnati, Richmond, DC, Charlotte, or Providence? You must live in Siberia. The only tough ones are Olean and Springfield, and that's just 30 minutes from Hartford.

But there are truly few direct flights to Springfield MO, Bloomington-Normal, Terre Haute, Cedar Falls, Peoria, Wichita, and Carbondale. Omaha and Des Moines are weak, too.

Let me ask this to all the geography arguers: which is worse, a 2-3 hour flight or a 3-7 hour bus ride?

Roy has a good point- there are always teams on the geographic ends of conference maps. We happen to be the western-most team in the A10 and we can deal with it. Moving to the Valley saves little or no travel time, as we would still have to travel the day before games and could spend potentially more time in transit. All it saves is some money, as buses are cheaper than planes.

As far as I'm concerned, the past few Selection Sundays, and this one in particular, should end any of this move-to-the-Valley nonsense.

Buster, you clearly do not know a thing about travel TODAY, post 9-11, and with the airlines in economic crisis. You must be in a cubicle watching life go by...

A bus to Carbondale, Peoria, Springfield vs flights to NY, CT, PA = extensive cost issues; think of all the teams, not just hoops!

The direct flights that are available are NOT PLENTIFULL so that you can NOT take convenient flights, (eg you have to leave at 8am or 3pm, those are the only options).

When you look at all the sports (baseball, soccer, etc) it is a goddam disaster to get these kids to bumf**k NY, PA, CT instead of hopping on a bus; do not forget airport check in, security, delays...

That is just one of the issues... bad TV package, bad biased refs, no fan following to the NE extremeties to see the team, conference tournament in NJ every year, no regional rivalries, no player identities (kids from SL in MVC), and so on.

[tenthyearsenior]

click on the link right above your above response from cornell.

The first explanation is wrong. It didn't come about till conferences were started in the 1950's

[billiken_roy]

The first explanation is wrong. It didn't come about till conferences were started in the 1950's

someone should tell cornell.

[cheeseman]

You can add scheduling as a league.

The league needs to make an effort to limit the RPI killer bottom teams scheduled. And, the team needs to plan which solid RPI teams to play when and where.

For example, Elgin started his plan and theory with N. Iowa years ago, and the idea was to schedule BCS conference teams. The idea became schedule Southern Football school BCS teams early in the season on the road, when football is still rampant, crowds less and less of a home court advantage. The hope is that middling and lower level BCS teams will be able to get some conference wins and upsets along the way. Even the bad conference teams often time pull off some solid conference wins in most leagues.

This is one example of league scheduling. Have a plan and execute it.

I heard Elgin last week being interviewed and he said that the MVC had gotten away from scheduling like they had done and that he was going to have to have a long hard talk with ADs this spring. The problem is they schools may have got away from scheduling like that because they got tired of not getting any return games even after they thought they had proved their worth. I also wonder if the new coaches that have come into the conf lately have a different thought on this scheduling issue?

[tenthyearsenior]

someone should tell cornell.

Or Cornell could check the Ivy League web site. I win again. More importantly, where are we watching the bills post season tourney games?

[kwyjibo]

someone should tell cornell.

Roy, even the Cornell site you list is trying to tell you that the urban legend is wrong but is doing so nicely by saying there are two theories (you know one based on historical research and the apocryphal one someone made up more recently but is often repeated). This "IV" issue is a hard one to break because it is so often repeated just like the Billiken being an "Eskimo God". The one way you know that IV story is incorrect is that is never the same 4 schools (it depends on where people graduated from). Cornell is seldom mentioned outside of the Cornell version.

[tenthyearsenior]

Roy, even the Cornell site you list is trying to tell you that the urban legend is wrong but is doing so nicely by saying there are two theories (you know one based on historical research and the apocryphal one someone made up more recently but is often repeated). This "IV" issue is a hard one to break because it is so often repeated just like the Billiken being an "Eskimo God". The one way you know that IV story is incorrect is that is never the same 4 schools (it depends on where people graduated from). Cornell is seldom mentioned outside of the Cornell version.

Take that roy

[StLouBlue]

I heard Elgin last week being interviewed and he said that the MVC had gotten away from scheduling like they had done and that he was going to have to have a long hard talk with ADs this spring. The problem is they schools may have got away from scheduling like that because they got tired of not getting any return games even after they thought they had proved their worth. I also wonder if the new coaches that have come into the conf lately have a different thought on this scheduling issue?

I hadn't read that from Elign, but not surprised. The Creighton AD mentioned they might have to look at doing 1 game road trips to BCS schools to improve the schedule. I think scheduling is something the NCAA needs to look at, especially for schools that have a proven record of good attendance. Creighton averaged around 15 or 16k per game this year but cannot get BCS schools to come to town. We haven't heard RM complain about scheduling yet, but I would guess the same thing will happen in about 2 years. Schools that can average as many fans as BCS schools should be able to schedule home & away games with those BCS schools.

[billiken_roy]

Take that roy

what are you about 12?

[slu72]

I hadn't read that from Elign, but not surprised. The Creighton AD mentioned they might have to look at doing 1 game road trips to BCS schools to improve the schedule. I think scheduling is something the NCAA needs to look at, especially for schools that have a proven record of good attendance. Creighton averaged around 15 or 16k per game this year but cannot get BCS schools to come to town. We haven't heard RM complain about scheduling yet, but I would guess the same thing will happen in about 2 years. Schools that can average as many fans as BCS schools should be able to schedule home & away games with those BCS schools.

I just wish the controversy, if there is one, about us in the A-10 would end until a viable new option is offered. First, I gather most would be disappointed if we just jumped to the MVC. I see us having nothing in common with most of the schools there academically, philosophocally, or athletically even. Creighton and Drake being the exceptions. Furthermore, I think it's wrong for us to knock the rest of the A-10 schools since we've done nothing special since joining except having the 3rd highest attendance rate in it's major program. The only hardship I see for SLU in the A-10 is the travel for the lesser sports. It's got to be costly sending the Baseball team to Philadelphia. I would hope there are ways around this. One suggestion, SLU just doesn't play away games against the teams furthestmost from St. L. The rest of the league makes the same adjustment. We don't travel to Umass they don't come here. Kind of sucks but hey so does the current economy. We have to adjust. The only other complaint I have w/ the A10 is of course the TV contract. Sure it would be nice to knock out a few of the schools and add some mid west flavor to the mix. But how do we say St. B's should be out they suck... they've ate our lunch 3 years in a row. If I was in Biondi's shoes, I'd be pushing for maybe an expanded A-10 with two divisions....East/West.... try and add Creighton, Drake, Butler, maybe Loyola. If you can't get them realign the conference by mileage. I'm guessing here but would figure our division would be: X, UD, SLU, Charlotte, Richmond, GW, Duquense. The others would be UMass, RI, St. B's, Fordham, the Three Philly schools. Play each in your div twice a year for 12 games, and add 6 single games (3 home 3 away) with the other division. In any event, the A10 is getting better 3 teams in the dance ain't shabby.

[Postcard]

what are you about 12?

Roy, who will you root for if Marquette and Mizzou play?

[Pistol]

Buster, you clearly do not know a thing about travel TODAY, post 9-11, and with the airlines in economic crisis. You must be in a cubicle watching life go by...

A bus to Carbondale, Peoria, Springfield vs flights to NY, CT, PA = extensive cost issues; think of all the teams, not just hoops!

The direct flights that are available are NOT PLENTIFULL so that you can NOT take convenient flights, (eg you have to leave at 8am or 3pm, those are the only options).

When you look at all the sports (baseball, soccer, etc) it is a goddam disaster to get these kids to bumf**k NY, PA, CT instead of hopping on a bus; do not forget airport check in, security, delays...

That is just one of the issues... bad TV package, bad biased refs, no fan following to the NE extremeties to see the team, conference tournament in NJ every year, no regional rivalries, no player identities (kids from SL in MVC), and so on.

I fly about once a month. I've flown both before and after 9/11/01, but more after. I don't work in a cubicle. In fact, my office in Cincinnati overlooks the Great American Ballpark, the new Banks mixed-use project, the Ohio River, Northern Kentucky, the Freedom Center, 5 bridges, an interstate, and a lot more- a great place to watch life go by. And why wouldn't I be talking about travel "TODAY"? I travel more today than ever before, and unlike many of SLU's older alums, I prefer to look to the future instead of the past.

I find that most who want us to move to the Valley have minimal understanding of SLU as an institution TODAY, are stuck in the past when the Valley had what are now nationally recognizable programs, and are fearful of institutions, places, and people outside the Midwest. There are certain other characteristics that most of the Valley arguers share, such as a provincial mindset, fear of change, fear of "bigness", limited debate skills, an inability to think past the short term.

I acknowledged that bus travel is cheaper than air travel and I understand that travel policies effect the whole athletic program, not just men's basketball. I'm not sure why you are hammering this again, as we seem to agree. My point is that in terms of travel time (an issue brought up in your first post), there isn't a major difference. Yes, sometimes there are flight delays. Yes, it sucks to go through security. These aren't always going to make a flight to NYC take longer than a bus ride to Wichita, though.

It is absolutely hilarious that you call the A10 cities "bumf**k" in an argument to move to the Valley. What warped mind would consider A10 cities more "bumf**k" than Valley cities? I could do a quick analysis but it would be a waste of everyone's time. Outside of Olean, Dayton, and Springfield, every A10 school is in a major metropolitan area. The largest metropolitan areas of the Valley are Omaha, Des Moines, and Wichita.

I hate the A10 TV package; everyone does. This is presumably being changed, and there is pressure from all 14 schools on the conference to do so.

"Bad biased refs" as you call them are all over the Valley. Have you gone to games at Missouri State or Carbondale? I have. We get hosed- the classic "stick it to the city boys" treatment. This won't change if we join the conference; we'll just get it in more places. A10 refs are bad but not in a defending-the-home-team sort of way. I've been to enough games at Dayton and Xavier to know that the questionable officiating is not exclusive to Chaifetz.

No fans following the team? That's another ridiculous one. Yes, it is harder for SLU alums in St. Louis to pack up and follow the team on road games in the A10. However, we've already discussed on this board that SLU has huge alumni bases in the massive markets of the A10, and established alumni clubs in most of those cities (and not in the Valley towns). If SLU were in the Valley, I personally would not see one of their road games; living in Cincinnati, I can obviously see them play easily at Xavier and Dayton, and I would have made Duquesne and St. Bonaventure this year if they weren't on weeknights- and that's just by car. SLUSignGuy himself goes to all the games in those northeastern outposts you loathe; I saw him on TV at Boardwalk Hall, and I know Sloan, Levick, and others went to Rose Hill Gym this year to catch our game. One more thing about Valley villages- there is NOTHING else to do in those places besides watch the game. The ride home normally consists of thankful thoughts that you don't live there.

The conference tournament has only been in Atlantic City the past three years. The 2010 site is up for bidding as we speak, and no decision has been made beyond that. Prior to the AC site, the tournament rotated. The Valley tournament is in St. Louis now but would have to be moved if SLU joined the conference, probably to KC.

No regional rivalries? I hope you're kidding. SLU-Dayton, SLU-Xavier, Dayton-Xavier, the 3 Philly schools, UMass-URI, and so on. Look at the map. This is a very compact conference when you take out the 3 westernmost teams, all of whom have developed nice series among themselves.

No player identities? Once again, you're embarrassing yourself. I'd rather have a conference with back-to-back national players of the year (David West and Jameer Nelson) and a nice amount of NBA players than one with more local ties. So SIU, Missouri State, and Illinois State have a few guys from the STL area? Yeah, that makes for some added interest when the Valley tourney rolls into town or when they play SLU so we can play the "should we have offered them?" game. Otherwise, they're just kids that weren't highly recruited going to places other than SLU. That's way less interesting than the top-level area recruits that went to bigger programs (e.g. Suggs, Lee, Brandenburg, and so on).

[Bay Area Billiken]

I hadn't read that from Elign, but not surprised. The Creighton AD mentioned they might have to look at doing 1 game road trips to BCS schools to improve the schedule. I think scheduling is something the NCAA needs to look at, especially for schools that have a proven record of good attendance. Creighton averaged around 15 or 16k per game this year but cannot get BCS schools to come to town. We haven't heard RM complain about scheduling yet, but I would guess the same thing will happen in about 2 years. Schools that can average as many fans as BCS schools should be able to schedule home & away games with those BCS schools.

So now we know the definition of Mike Slive's new "entire body of work" standard. What that means is non-BCS teams have to go on the road to BCS teams without any return visits, all de facto "buy" games, no home and homes. If that happens, then the next "entire body of work" standard will be that the non-BCS teams have to go on the road and beat BCS teams without any return visits.

BCS also rans like Arizona and Cal will get to continue to play the vast majority of their nonconference games before the first of the year in Tucson and Berkeley, respectively, etc.

[moytoy12]

I fly about once a month. I've flown both before and after 9/11/01, but more after. I don't work in a cubicle. In fact, my office in Cincinnati overlooks the Great American Ballpark, the new Banks mixed-use project, the Ohio River, Northern Kentucky, the Freedom Center, 5 bridges, an interstate, and a lot more- a great place to watch life go by. And why wouldn't I be talking about travel "TODAY"? I travel more today than ever before, and unlike many of SLU's older alums, I prefer to look to the future instead of the past.

I find that most who want us to move to the Valley have minimal understanding of SLU as an institution TODAY, are stuck in the past when the Valley had what are now nationally recognizable programs, and are fearful of institutions, places, and people outside the Midwest. There are certain other characteristics that most of the Valley arguers share, such as a provincial mindset, fear of change, fear of "bigness", limited debate skills, an inability to think past the short term.

I acknowledged that bus travel is cheaper than air travel and I understand that travel policies effect the whole athletic program, not just men's basketball. I'm not sure why you are hammering this again, as we seem to agree. My point is that in terms of travel time (an issue brought up in your first post), there isn't a major difference. Yes, sometimes there are flight delays. Yes, it sucks to go through security. These aren't always going to make a flight to NYC take longer than a bus ride to Wichita, though.

It is absolutely hilarious that you call the A10 cities "bumf**k" in an argument to move to the Valley. What warped mind would consider A10 cities more "bumf**k" than Valley cities? I could do a quick analysis but it would be a waste of everyone's time. Outside of Olean, Dayton, and Springfield, every A10 school is in a major metropolitan area. The largest metropolitan areas of the Valley are Omaha, Des Moines, and Wichita.

I hate the A10 TV package; everyone does. This is presumably being changed, and there is pressure from all 14 schools on the conference to do so.

"Bad biased refs" as you call them are all over the Valley. Have you gone to games at Missouri State or Carbondale? I have. We get hosed- the classic "stick it to the city boys" treatment. This won't change if we join the conference; we'll just get it in more places. A10 refs are bad but not in a defending-the-home-team sort of way. I've been to enough games at Dayton and Xavier to know that the questionable officiating is not exclusive to Chaifetz.

No fans following the team? That's another ridiculous one. Yes, it is harder for SLU alums in St. Louis to pack up and follow the team on road games in the A10. However, we've already discussed on this board that SLU has huge alumni bases in the massive markets of the A10, and established alumni clubs in most of those cities (and not in the Valley towns). If SLU were in the Valley, I personally would not see one of their road games; living in Cincinnati, I can obviously see them play easily at Xavier and Dayton, and I would have made Duquesne and St. Bonaventure this year if they weren't on weeknights- and that's just by car. SLUSignGuy himself goes to all the games in those northeastern outposts you loathe; I saw him on TV at Boardwalk Hall, and I know Sloan, Levick, and others went to Rose Hill Gym this year to catch our game. One more thing about Valley villages- there is NOTHING else to do in those places besides watch the game. The ride home normally consists of thankful thoughts that you don't live there.

The conference tournament has only been in Atlantic City the past three years. The 2010 site is up for bidding as we speak, and no decision has been made beyond that. Prior to the AC site, the tournament rotated. The Valley tournament is in St. Louis now but would have to be moved if SLU joined the conference, probably to KC.

No regional rivalries? I hope you're kidding. SLU-Dayton, SLU-Xavier, Dayton-Xavier, the 3 Philly schools, UMass-URI, and so on. Look at the map. This is a very compact conference when you take out the 3 westernmost teams, all of whom have developed nice series among themselves.

No player identities? Once again, you're embarrassing yourself. I'd rather have a conference with back-to-back national players of the year (David West and Jameer Nelson) and a nice amount of NBA players than one with more local ties. So SIU, Missouri State, and Illinois State have a few guys from the STL area? Yeah, that makes for some added interest when the Valley tourney rolls into town or when they play SLU so we can play the "should we have offered them?" game. Otherwise, they're just kids that weren't highly recruited going to places other than SLU. That's way less interesting than the top-level area recruits that went to bigger programs (e.g. Suggs, Lee, Brandenburg, and so on).

Great post!

[kshoe]

We haven't heard RM complain about scheduling yet, but I would guess the same thing will happen in about 2 years.

I take it you haven't listened to his radio show much. I'd guess 10 minutes a show, every show, are spent talking about scheduling problems and who we want to schedule but can't get to do home and homes.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, who will you root for if Marquette and Mizzou play?

i'd probably watch 'blazing saddles' and try to forget it was even happening.

picking a team to root for there would be like deciding between the stick in the eye or the rock to the back of the head.

[StLouBlue]

I take it you haven't listened to his radio show much. I'd guess 10 minutes a show, every show, are spent talking about scheduling problems and who we want to schedule but can't get to do home and homes.

This year I was only able to catch a couple of minutes here and there of the show. I didn't think he would be complaining much about scheduling now because having such a young team I wasn't sure how much he wanted to challenge them in the non-conference.

I think the only way most BCS teams will go on the road to non-BCS schools if it is mandated by the NCAA or by a threat against funding--like Iowa does.

[billiken_roy]

I think the only way most BCS teams will go on the road to non-BCS schools if it is mandated by the NCAA or by a threat against funding--like Iowa does.

imo considering it is well known that the bcs schools will not schedule the mid major and lesser conference schools, for the ncaa to use schedules and strength of schedule against the non bcs schools is flat out wrong. when they see those schools participating in the bracket buster games, or scheduling against other mid majors out of conference, that is about as good as they can do.

now if their non conference schedule is a 250+ strength of schedule, sure. that school indeed skirted any competition. but dont hold no bcs games or wins against them.

otherwise, if they want to use that criteria, then they need to definitely force the bcs schools to play the lesser conference schools.

[tenthyearsenior]

what are you about 12?

That's right you are getting your ass handed to you by a 12 year old. ha ha Has Roy ever been right about anything?

[tenthyearsenior]

i'd probably watch 'blazing saddles' and try to forget it was even happening.

picking a team to root for there would be like deciding between the stick in the eye or the rock to the back of the head.

either of those would help you out

[cheeseman]

So now we know the definition of Mike Slive's new "entire body of work" standard. What that means is non-BCS teams have to go on the road to BCS teams without any return visits, all de facto "buy" games, no home and homes. If that happens, then the next "entire body of work" standard will be that the non-BCS teams have to go on the road and beat BCS teams without any return visits.

BCS also rans like Arizona and Cal will get to continue to play the vast majority of their nonconference games before the first of the year in Tucson and Berkeley, respectively, etc.

This was my thought exactly except I doubt that a BCS school will pay a Creighton or Dayton to come to them like a buy game. The problem with is whole thing - even Bilas said that non BCS teams can play BCS teams if they really want to because in his mind going on the road is not a big thing for non BCS schools want to improve their SOS - what a tool - anyway, the problem is that if you are SLU, you get revenue from a home game even against a lousy team by playing the game at home - SLU with 7K season tix at $25 per ticket brings in $175K for the game plus parking and concessions. If they give up that home game and schedule a BCS team away then they get nothing. This idea of traveling and not getting a return game is just a royal rip off for non BCS schools.

[Tonka]

i'd probably watch 'blazing saddles' and try to forget it was even happening.

picking a team to root for there would be like deciding between the stick in the eye or the rock to the back of the head.

Roy, who do you like outside of the Billikens? I know you are a basketball guy, so I am curious.

[Box and Won]

I fly about once a month. I've flown both before and after 9/11/01, but more after. I don't work in a cubicle. In fact, my office in Cincinnati overlooks the Great American Ballpark, the new Banks mixed-use project, the Ohio River, Northern Kentucky, the Freedom Center, 5 bridges, an interstate, and a lot more- a great place to watch life go by. And why wouldn't I be talking about travel "TODAY"? I travel more today than ever before, and unlike many of SLU's older alums, I prefer to look to the future instead of the past.

I find that most who want us to move to the Valley have minimal understanding of SLU as an institution TODAY, are stuck in the past when the Valley had what are now nationally recognizable programs, and are fearful of institutions, places, and people outside the Midwest. There are certain other characteristics that most of the Valley arguers share, such as a provincial mindset, fear of change, fear of "bigness", limited debate skills, an inability to think past the short term.

I acknowledged that bus travel is cheaper than air travel and I understand that travel policies effect the whole athletic program, not just men's basketball. I'm not sure why you are hammering this again, as we seem to agree. My point is that in terms of travel time (an issue brought up in your first post), there isn't a major difference. Yes, sometimes there are flight delays. Yes, it sucks to go through security. These aren't always going to make a flight to NYC take longer than a bus ride to Wichita, though.

It is absolutely hilarious that you call the A10 cities "bumf**k" in an argument to move to the Valley. What warped mind would consider A10 cities more "bumf**k" than Valley cities? I could do a quick analysis but it would be a waste of everyone's time. Outside of Olean, Dayton, and Springfield, every A10 school is in a major metropolitan area. The largest metropolitan areas of the Valley are Omaha, Des Moines, and Wichita.

I hate the A10 TV package; everyone does. This is presumably being changed, and there is pressure from all 14 schools on the conference to do so.

"Bad biased refs" as you call them are all over the Valley. Have you gone to games at Missouri State or Carbondale? I have. We get hosed- the classic "stick it to the city boys" treatment. This won't change if we join the conference; we'll just get it in more places. A10 refs are bad but not in a defending-the-home-team sort of way. I've been to enough games at Dayton and Xavier to know that the questionable officiating is not exclusive to Chaifetz.

No fans following the team? That's another ridiculous one. Yes, it is harder for SLU alums in St. Louis to pack up and follow the team on road games in the A10. However, we've already discussed on this board that SLU has huge alumni bases in the massive markets of the A10, and established alumni clubs in most of those cities (and not in the Valley towns). If SLU were in the Valley, I personally would not see one of their road games; living in Cincinnati, I can obviously see them play easily at Xavier and Dayton, and I would have made Duquesne and St. Bonaventure this year if they weren't on weeknights- and that's just by car. SLUSignGuy himself goes to all the games in those northeastern outposts you loathe; I saw him on TV at Boardwalk Hall, and I know Sloan, Levick, and others went to Rose Hill Gym this year to catch our game. One more thing about Valley villages- there is NOTHING else to do in those places besides watch the game. The ride home normally consists of thankful thoughts that you don't live there.

The conference tournament has only been in Atlantic City the past three years. The 2010 site is up for bidding as we speak, and no decision has been made beyond that. Prior to the AC site, the tournament rotated. The Valley tournament is in St. Louis now but would have to be moved if SLU joined the conference, probably to KC.

No regional rivalries? I hope you're kidding. SLU-Dayton, SLU-Xavier, Dayton-Xavier, the 3 Philly schools, UMass-URI, and so on. Look at the map. This is a very compact conference when you take out the 3 westernmost teams, all of whom have developed nice series among themselves.

No player identities? Once again, you're embarrassing yourself. I'd rather have a conference with back-to-back national players of the year (David West and Jameer Nelson) and a nice amount of NBA players than one with more local ties. So SIU, Missouri State, and Illinois State have a few guys from the STL area? Yeah, that makes for some added interest when the Valley tourney rolls into town or when they play SLU so we can play the "should we have offered them?" game. Otherwise, they're just kids that weren't highly recruited going to places other than SLU. That's way less interesting than the top-level area recruits that went to bigger programs (e.g. Suggs, Lee, Brandenburg, and so on).

To quote Mike Martz, "Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but."

[billiken_roy]

Roy, who do you like outside of the Billikens? I know you are a basketball guy, so I am curious.

i truly have no "second" team to root for. i typically root against the bcs teams and in particular the old guard i.e. unc, duke, ucla, kansas, kentucky. their sense of entitlement and arrogance is sickening.

who do i think will win this year's tourney. i'll take louisville. louisville vs oklahoma for the championship with pitt and memphis getting to the final four.

in my view oklahoma and pitt have the two best "players" in college land with griffin and blair. always seems to be a team that has a player that just carries the team to the final four.

imo, louisville and memphis are just the flat out best teams. both are loaded with talent.

louisville will beat memphis though simply because pitino is a far superior game coach to calipari.