City ordinance banning standing up at SLU games

[slulefty]

Its because if you look around the arena, most of the fans are 40 and older. Maybe more like 50 and over. Older fans, in general, dont get up and cheer. SLU needs to promote a younger crowd.

[Iggy]

The average age of a Billiken fan is 'deceased'.

[bonwich]

Yes we do. The dance team now serves a dual purpose. It's better that way, as I had no need for 85-pound girls and balding guys (seriously, why are male cheerleaders always balding in college?) standing in the way and literally spelling out how they want the team to play. Cheerleaders are about as useless as fans who don't cheer. Good riddance to them.

And seriously, Bonwich? You need cheerleaders to lead your cheers? You can't applaud a good play or scream at a ref without a little pixie in Keds giving you the go-ahead? That's either sad or creepy.

Clearly, you don't sit anywhere near me. I've actually had half a section chanting "A-10 Refs" at various points in the game.

But the flagrant flaw in your argument is your use of "I" and of my name. IT'S NOT ABOUT US. It's about the 75-80 (90)percent of the fans who are still casual fans and don't really know how to do organized cheers. (Oh, and there's the little matter of Notre Dame, Wisconsin and various other teams I've followed where the cheerleaders actually LEAD the CHEERS -- "De-fense, etc.," not to mention the immortal "Sieve" after every goal the Wisconsin hockey team scores.)

It's all about the marketing. (Say, those discounted and free seats haven't worked at all, have they? )

[Pistol]

Clearly, you don't sit anywhere near me. I've actually had half a section chanting "A-10 Refs" at various points in the game.

But the flagrant flaw in your argument is your use of "I" and of my name. IT'S NOT ABOUT US. It's about the 75-80 (90)percent of the fans who are still casual fans and don't really know how to do organized cheers. (Oh, and there's the little matter of Notre Dame, Wisconsin and various other teams I've followed where the cheerleaders actually LEAD the CHEERS -- "De-fense, etc.," not to mention the immortal "Sieve" after every goal the Wisconsin hockey team scores.)

It's all about the marketing. (Say, those discounted and free seats haven't worked at all, have they? )

Good response, Bonwich. I'm glad to see you participating and even leading. I agree that it isn't about us diehards, but I disagree that cheerleaders did much for the casual fans. I see no difference between the overall fan cheering now than I did in the Scottrade Center and when we had a full cheerleading squad, and it's actually louder because of the more appropriately sized arena.

The fact is that we have too many fans who are content to sit there with their arms folded and mouths closed. It's always been that way at SLU games. I don't understand it because it looks so boring to me. The older fans aren't like this at other arenas. I go to a lot of Xavier games here in Cincinnati, and everyone gets into it throughout the game. It also helps that they have what appears to be a more across-the-board fan base in terms of age. We basically have the students and the alums of decades ago. When I go to the games, I don't see many more recent alums like me (20s, 30s, or even 40s), who are more likely to come in bigger groups, be loud, stand up, cheer, and buy more beer to help the whole process.

The examples you give are well-established traditions that these schools do every game. Yeah, we could use a cue from our band to get going with certain ones, but we still don't need cheerleaders. We need fans who know how to show that they care and more young fans.

[Box and Won]

When I go to the games, I don't see many more recent alums like me (20s, 30s, or even 40s), who are more likely to come in bigger groups, be loud, stand up, cheer, and buy more beer to help the whole process.

You should "upgrade" to 118.

[bonwich]

OK, here's one for the oldies on the board, especially those of you who attended SLU late 60s-early 70s. In those grand days, the students sat CENTER COURT in two sections on one side of the old Kiel. There was a student my family refered to as the lumberjack -- plaid flannel shirt every game -- who jumped up and led the section every game in the WE DON'T MESS AROUND -- HEY! cheer. I'm pretty sure the section also used to do the Woodstock Rain Dance song every game as well.

The point being traditions need to start somewhere. And we could also afford to invent a few. But someone needs to do it -- the Band does a pretty good job with the opposition intros (and what ever happened to the improvisational "Hey Baby"?).

Also on the matter of our lack of true cheerleaders, to put it bluntly, they all throw like girls. What's the point of the Culver's giveaway if only 2-3 of the girls can make it past the fifth row?

[Pistol]

You should "upgrade" to 118.

It was gone by the time my representatives (i.e. parents) picked, but I like that section- next to the students, and surprisingly close to the floor. I have a few buddies down there as well. Maybe if there's an opening next year, I will.

[gister]

the cheerleaders don't do jack. they gotta get some signs or something to tell people to stand the ef up. 6 point game with 2 minutes left... the place was SILENT. PATHETIC. I was furious at this incredibly poor display of support by a near sell out crowd.

I agree with most everything said here, but there was something about yesterday's game that didn't seem to let the crowd get into it. There were several times in the last 10 minutes when you could tell the crowd wanted to get into it, the noise started to build, but then Richmond would hit a 3 or get fouled or whatever that just killed the noise. Especially in the last 3 minutes, the crowd noise was growing and then a Richmond play would kill it. It was almost as if the handwriting was on the wall that the Billikens weren't going to come back, especially in light of the performance in Thursday's game. I think the crowd tried to get into it, but each time, Richmond almost immediately killed any rally the Billikens started to make.

On the other side of it, if the crowd noise had grown and been sustained, it might have helped the team, who knows. I just think the crowd has been disappointed so many times in recent history, that it is hard to sustain much enthusiasm without more consistent play.

[TheBand]

Similar complaints about the crowd:

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=603235

...that oddly devolves into a weird debate (smack talk session) about Missouri and Illinois...

[joe_davola]

I will probably be banned again for this post, but I am going to direct my frustration not at our head coach, not at his recruiting efforts, not at any of our players -- but at you, the fan.

I have made all the home games except the UMass game (late night at the office) and I have rudely been asked to "sit down" at the Kent State game, the BC game, the GW game and yesterday's pitiful game against Richmond.

"Sit down," yells some Lute Olson Look-Alike winner, as I applaud the hustle of Dr. Paul Eckerle.

"I can't see," yells Kenny Roger's brother who also looks like a hybrid of Bob Seger, Michael McDonald and Walter Becker.

When has standing up and cheering on the Bills been a crime?

Here's a theory -- the way the crowd gets into it directly effects the way our team plays. When we boo, they're probably going to respond in kind. But when we use the two legs (hopefully) the Good Lord Jesus Christ gave us, clap our two hands in unison and rock the Chaifetz Arena, we're going to get a positive response from the Boys in Blue.

We all know Humphrey's runs a shuttle to the games, but when did Delmar Gardens start running theirs?

I know a lot of older people are big donors, etc. They have their place and a right to sit in comfy chairs and schmooze with their class of '57 friends. But the young alums need to get off their asses and cheer. I'm all for respecting your elders, but this is Saint Louis University Basketball -- not bingo night at the YMCA.

GET UP AND CHEER

I love all of you,

Metz

Post of the year! HAHAHA

[ARon]

i stand and scream and holler when the game dictates such. i am not going to "stand" just for the sake of standing.

Amen, if you want to stand the whole game for no reason, go to the student section or get tickets in the last row. You aren't proving anything to anyone.

[joe_davola]

Unfortunately, it is going to take a lot to get this trend turned around. I have definitely been to rowdier games this year than the last (Boston College, Kent State), but those still don't compare to a 'real' college basketball atmosphere. When I was at SLU, aside from my freshman year with Larry the Legend, it was almost looked down upon to go to games. I think people looked at you as if you didn't have anything better to do and that is a damn shame. Somehow that has to change, and maybe it has, but I still don't see many students at the games. Get off your asses, drink a beer to cure your hangover, or get out of the library for a couple hours.

The age of our crowd has always been an issue. I'm not saying the older folks don't cheer, but a majority don't and that's fine, they are paying for it. Just stating the facts. I'd rather have those folks there than none at all. Where are the 20-30 year olds? Where is the pride in your school? I just don't get it.

Quality on the court is obviously a factor too. The better we are, the more pride I think our fans will take in our team and the fact that we have to defend our home court as much as possible.

The variety of things throughout the game...I mean, a 'Friends' lookalike contest? Which of these three spots is the basketball behind? This is geered towards families, and as long as that is going on, you're going to get the ho-hum crowd (See the St. Louis Cardinals) that aren't very into the game in my opinion, and are too nice.

We are starting to get crowds where the size CAN be a huge factor. We have to do our part in getting this program to the next level. Moser says it, Majerus says it. Takes more than just money. Open your mouths and get off your asses. And if you yell at me, prepare to be doused by a beer.

[Bill_Ken R]

OK, here's one for the oldies on the board, especially those of you who attended SLU late 60s-early 70s. In those grand days, the students sat CENTER COURT in two sections on one side of the old Kiel. There was a student my family refered to as the lumberjack -- plaid flannel shirt every game -- who jumped up and led the section every game in the WE DON'T MESS AROUND -- HEY! cheer. I'm pretty sure the section also used to do the Woodstock Rain Dance song every game as well.

The point being traditions need to start somewhere. And we could also afford to invent a few. But someone needs to do it -- the Band does a pretty good job with the opposition intros (and what ever happened to the improvisational "Hey Baby"?).

Also on the matter of our lack of true cheerleaders, to put it bluntly, they all throw like girls. What's the point of the Culver's giveaway if only 2-3 of the girls can make it past the fifth row?

Didn't some student group have a beer keg which they used as a drum that interfered with the performances in the adjoining Kiel Opera House thus geting it banned? I am obviously an old timer but I cheer like crazy and stand when I feel like it and although I am in my early 60's I still can. Some of you youngin's ought to have more respect for the older Billiken fans and give us more credit. Some of us are not sedate at games and many of us have helped keep this program going over some pretty hard times.

[jimbofive]

I just think the crowd has been disappointed so many times in recent history, that it is hard to sustain much enthusiasm without more consistent play.

Except that we were 10-1 at home up until Sunday, and most of those schmucks probably don't even know that we get f'ing creamed on the road.

[drkelsey55]

Its because if you look around the arena, most of the fans are 40 and older. Maybe more like 50 and over. Older fans, in general, dont get up and cheer. SLU needs to promote a younger crowd.

Bull, I'm 63 and I couldn't get the four Kids under 20 next to me to open their mouths!! I was yelling "DEFENSE" some of you heard me.

[slufanskip]

Bull, I'm 63 and I couldn't get the four Kids under 20 next to me to open their mouths!! I was yelling "DEFENSE" some of you heard me.

I quit getting upset, just stand, yell, make an ass out of yourself and f..k anyone who doesn't like it. I used to revert to insulting fans around me to get them to stand or yell ... it doesn't help .... just do your thing.

[Pistol]

Amen, if you want to stand the whole game for no reason, go to the student section or get tickets in the last row. You aren't proving anything to anyone.

Typical SLU fan attitude. You and Roy should petition the AD to establish a "silent section" for tough guys and geriatrics.

I'm guessing this would also be the section that would have the highest number of people leaving early to beat traffic, such as those who left with 2 minutes down by 6 (surely these old folks remember just a few years back when we were down 9 with less than a minute against Houston, tied it on a tip by Phil Hunt, and won in OT).

[billiken_roy]

Typical SLU fan attitude. You and Roy should petition the AD to establish a "silent section" for tough guys and geriatrics.

I'm guessing this would also be the section that would have the highest number of people leaving early to beat traffic, such as those who left with 2 minutes down by 6 (surely these old folks remember just a few years back when we were down 9 with less than a minute against Houston, tied it on a tip by Phil Hunt, and won in OT).

i have never left a sporting event early.

and as i said, i stand when the game dictates such. and believe me, i am rarely silent.

[ChaifetzRocker88]

i have never left a sporting event early.

and as i said, i stand when the game dictates such. and believe me, i am rarely silent.

Roy, the point is not about leaving early, it's about supporting your school. I don't know if SLU is your alma mater or if you have kids that go to SLU, etc., but you pay for season tickets because there's a part of you, deep down inside, that wants to believe that this year (or any year for that matter) is going to be special.

My sister will graduate from Bradley in May with that 2006 Sweet Sixteen run by BU as a lasting memory of her undergrad days. I'm pretty lucky to have had that magical 2004 NIT run and made a bus trip with Blue Crew up to Ft. Wayne for the Notre Dame game, but my sister HATES college basketball. She doesn't make an ass out of herself on Bradley message boards, she doesn't go to Jimmy's Pub three hours before every game like I do at Humphrey's to talk hoops with complete strangers. Bottom line is that I would give my right hand for sniffing the Sweet Sixteen. I would ask the Good Lord to strike me dead to show the Chaifetz Arena on Selection Sunday with five thousand people in there watching the CBS broadcast and when Greg Gumbel says, "the 8th seed Billikens..." the whole place freaking erupts. There would be tears running down my face, Roy. I love Saint Louis University and all the things I will be able to do in my lifetime with my degree. When Fr. Biondi challenged us to be sons of this institution, he didn't meant to half-ass it. He didn't mean for the alumni population of Saint Louis University to abandon her message of being men and women for others. As I see it, this applies to all aspects of life -- from service to others, spreading the message of St. Ignatius of Loyola, even by supporting our athletic teams. They play with a purpose -- we should root for them with a purpose. They are playing for all the guys who have worn that Billiken jersey -- guys like Clagget and Highmark and Bonner -- who I'm sure you've seen walk off the court with a lot of red mixed with that beautiful Billiken blue. Look at a guy like Lisch -- he plays like his life is on the line every game. Whether that attributes to him having a career night or not, you have to respect and applaud the dedication he has given the program. He's our Derek Jeter. He's got the intangible tools that makes a guy like Rick Majerus want to be associated with him and to give him the support he needs from a coach with more connections than Ameren UE. Players see Lisch and want to emulate his style of play.

It's a shame that a school that has been around since the time of Christ has a bar that has been around for 32-33 years as a "Tradition," but such is life. We have to be a positive fan base. I'm tired of excuses from old people, but I respect that you have given back to the program and your school. That is commendable and that serves as an example to young alums as well, but for God's sake, if you don't want to cheer and be heard, don't come to the games.

When we ever get a game on ESPN, your complacency will be seen on national television. Dick Vitale has been body-surfed through the Cameron Crazies and he's pushing 70. There's no excuse. Let's all be PTP'ers, baby.

Go BILLS!

I love all of you. Let's turn Chaifetz into Hell's Staging Area.

[slu72 fan]

Since this is apparently pick on old guys day, I'd like to counter and ask where was the student body? Last time I checked the section was not full. I know there's a lot to do on on a freezing Sunday afternoon at 2. Thanks to those that came, but most of them showed up after the game started. During the opening introduction, I'd bet there weren't 200 students in the stands.

[ChaifetzRocker88]

Since this is apparently pick on old guys day, I'd like to counter and ask where was the student body? Last time I checked the section was not full. I know there's a lot to do on on a freezing Sunday afternoon at 2. Thanks to those that came, but most of them showed up after the game started. During the opening introduction, I'd bet there weren't 200 students in the stands.

That's a hell of a departure from the six or so that showed up for Senior Day last year. "Thank you, Luke" could barely be heard over the "Cold Beer...Bud Light" calls by the vendors. Unacceptable for all ages.

It's not picking on old guys. I'm calling out everyone. Let's be perfectly clear on that.

I'm not a big donor like Roy, but I come to the games not to be seen, but to BE HEARD.

[slu72 fan]

That's a hell of a departure from the six or so that showed up for Senior Day last year. "Thank you, Luke" could barely be heard over the "Cold Beer...Bud Light" calls by the vendors. Unacceptable for all ages.

It's not picking on old guys. I'm calling out everyone. Let's be perfectly clear on that.

I'm not a big donor like Roy, but I come to the games not to be seen, but to BE HEARD.

Odd, I don't go to the games to hear you. I go to watch our team hopefully win, and at the very least give good effort. That's also why I go to almost every game of the soccer teams, bball teams and vball team. Generally, I only see older fans at the women's games.

[ChaifetzRocker88]

THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!! It's not about me, it's about the efforts of all of us. It's piss poor. I'm sure I speak for the group when I say I've made a few games hung to the roof and not feeling too hot after a night on the town, but I cheer anyway! I'm appalled you try to spin this back at my face, 72. You work for Obama?

[Pistol]

Since this is apparently pick on old guys day, I'd like to counter and ask where was the student body? Last time I checked the section was not full. I know there's a lot to do on on a freezing Sunday afternoon at 2. Thanks to those that came, but most of them showed up after the game started. During the opening introduction, I'd bet there weren't 200 students in the stands.

It's a vicious cycle. Winning first and foremost will attract more students, but so will a raucous atmosphere. I heard a lot of students complain while I was at SLU that games weren't fun. That fun atmosphere isn't being created by the very old fan base, but would be with more students.

[billiken_roy]

pistol, i am class of 82, my wife is class of 84, my son is class of 08 my daughter has slu in her final two even though slu isnt even close to a player in her chosen major.

i have been a billiken club member and season ticket holder since 89. until the a-10 moved the conference tourney to atlantic city, i had only missed two conference tourneys since spoon took over. i bet if you checked i am one of the minority that gives more than the mandatory gift that was put into play this year.

when i was a student i was sitting in the student section with 4 other students when the eventual national champion louisville cardinals came to play. many a night i could count EVERY SINGLE FAN in stands while ekker was giving away another game.

dont tell me about dedication or a want to win. i have been living through the billikens for most of my life. and i bet that most of the old guys some of you are now lecturing could make my story look far tamer.

if you all want to create the atmosphere, first we need to fill the building. last time i heard we are about 3k short of filling the place with season tix. why dont you younger fans find the enthused fans that want to rock the place to fill those seats? either buy em yourself and give em to those that will or find the fans to buy em.

wanna bet if 3,000 more fans are standing and screaming that there is at least that many that are just waiting for you to show the way. and wanna bet that if there is now 6-7 k screaming standing hollering that the other 4k either figure it out or get out.

the point is you arent going to change the atmosphere by asking the oldsters to change. you have to change the attendees and there is plenty of room to make that happen.

and i disagree with any shots at our students. i never thought we would get the numbers we are getting now from the students so they are well on their way to being a true blue crew imo. give em time. like i said, i can remember my blue crew being 4 students.