kshoe Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Both players are newbies but at least Reed has the athleticism to play spot minutes at the 4. Playing someone as slow as Thompson there would be suicide. He's got enough on his plate just to trying to keep pace with college centers. I don't want Tommie to have to play the backup power forward role. That's just how the math works out when you only have two power forwards and one of them is projected to play heavy minutes at the 5. I'm just not following your math. I apologize. Lets say, for arguments sake that Thompson and Reed only play at the 5 spot. That leaves Eberhardt and Conklin to play the 4 spot. Basically, you have 4 guys to play 2 spots. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I'm just not following your math. I apologize. Lets say, for arguments sake that Thompson and Reed only play at the 5 spot. That leaves Eberhardt and Conklin to play the 4 spot. Basically, you have 4 guys to play 2 spots. What am I missing here? I'm not sure how much of this thread that you've read, but RM announced his intentions to hold down the post with the two power forwards and Thompson and "maybe play Reed 5 minutes a game to block shots". So in reality you have three guys holding down two spots, one of which is a freshman center who routinely got dominated by 6'6 power forwards in small school Illinois ball. No matter how you slice it, one of our power forwards is logging heavy minutes at the 5. P.S. Thompson is going to be pretty good, just not this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I'm not sure how much of this thread that you've read, but RM announced his intentions to hold down the post with the two power forwards and Thompson and "maybe play Reed 5 minutes a game to block shots". So in reality you have three guys holding down two spots, one of which is a freshman center who routinely got dominated by 6'6 power forwards in small school Illinois ball. No matter how you slice it, one of our power forwards is logging heavy minutes at the 5. P.S. Thompson is going to be pretty good, just not this year. I read most of the thread and was at the BC meeting. Majerus said a lot of things, some of which contradicted themselves, but I never heard him say for sure that Reed was going to be getting at most 5 minutes a game. Someone asked who was a candidate to redshirt and he mentioned Willie because of his skinnyness, lack of playing last year etc. He then went on to talk about some player on another team that only played 5 minutes a game and how he would have been better off red-shirting. At the end of the day, I don't know what Rick is thinking, but nobody should assume the WR is a certain redshirt or is certain to be playing 5 minutes or less. Either MAY happen but I really don't think Majerus ever said he viewed WR as a 5 minute per game guy. Of course, when someone speaks non-stop for over an hour many things are said and maybe I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Both players are newbies but at least Reed has the athleticism to play spot minutes at the 4. Playing someone as slow as Thompson there would be suicide. He's got enough on his plate just to trying to keep pace with college centers. I don't want Tommie to have to play the backup power forward role. That's just how the math works out when you only have two power forwards and one of them is projected to play heavy minutes at the 5. BT has been working out since June. Last year's all star game with John Brandenburg in same game. JB looked weaker but mor Easy Ed type. BT was not slow. He ran the court well. His footwork will not suit coach RM this year but he will be an improvement at the 5 over Bryce except for shot blocking. He may surprise people that he is just as tough a kid as Conklin. He has good hands but will rebound better and if he only scores 4-7 points a game but gets us 8 rebounds or more that would be a great freshman effort. BE, TL are going to be stronger and quicker and bet that KM rebounds better than Polk. I say we average 5 rebounds a game and have a better shooting percentage than last year. Last year we were pretty much one and done. Eventually, RM will bring us a 1,2,3,4,5 he is that kind of coach and recruiter. We won't get beat as many times in second half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 He is not just as tough as Conklin. Nobody can have that kind of total game and attitude adjustment in under a year. I am not saying he his soft, but he has never played anything like Conklin has played. That is not something you just turn on. As 3star said he will be good, but there will be an adjustment time for him. Him practicing in the post against BE, WR, and BC will not get him ready for what he will face when he goes up against an experinced legit college 5. The only way he is going to get use to that is in games. That will take some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Thanks for the very informative posts to all. I like the idea of Kevin getting some time at the point. Bring a little experience as opposed to having two freshmen there. Never seen Reed play, but I would think based on the lack of depth, he would have to play at least a little. If not, Tommie will have to see a little time at the power forward spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 As best I can tell, we have 4 players capable of playing the two inside positions: BE, BT, BC and WR. Why does Tommie have to be a back-up? My point exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Both players are newbies but at least Reed has the athleticism to play spot minutes at the 4. Playing someone as slow as Thompson there would be suicide. He's got enough on his plate just to trying to keep pace with college centers. I don't want Tommie to have to play the backup power forward role. That's just how the math works out when you only have two power forwards and one of them is projected to play heavy minutes at the 5. This is exactly why I was pissed when I heard they "mutually" agreed Relephorde should leave. RM demands his bigs run the floor. Relephorde can run and at least has the size to man the PF position. Our two freshman can't be counted on for big minutes. Tommie or I would think Femi John are going to be forced into playing some 4 as things stand now. It sucks. The coaching staff should have been begging Relephorde to return rather than turning up their nose and telling the kid they had limited minutes for him. This could have kept us out of extended minutes of 4 guard. Heaven forbid Barry or Conklin get hurt or are in foul trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 My point exactly.Hey, open your eyes. Thompson is not going to start and will play limited minutes. Reed is paper thin plus lacks fundamentals and, thus, can also only be counted on for limited minutes. We only have two solid bigs on this team who are capable of logging major minutes--Barry and Conklin. I don't understand why this is so nebulous. IMHO, Barry and Conklin have to log 30 minutes each a game. If one of these guys gets hurt or is in foul trouble, we go into 4 guard except when the other team has a big, slow center Thompson can run with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hey, open your eyes. Thompson is not going to start and will play limited minutes. Reed lacks fundamentals. These statements are absurd. You haven't seen these kids play or practice. You have no idea how much or how little they will play. You have no idea how good or bad their fundamentals are at this point. Opinions are fine, but you shouldn't state unsubstantiated criticism as facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This is exactly why I was pissed when I heard they "mutually" agreed Relephorde should leave. RM demands his bigs run the floor. Relephorde can run and at least has the size to man the PF position. But Relephorde wanted to play guard ... not power forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hey, open your eyes. Thompson is not going to start and will play limited minutes. Reed is paper thin plus lacks fundamentals and, thus, can also only be counted on for limited minutes. We only have two solid bigs on this team who are capable of logging major minutes--Barry and Conklin. I don't understand why this is so nebulous. IMHO, Barry and Conklin have to log 30 minutes each a game. If one of these guys gets hurt or is in foul trouble, we go into 4 guard except when the other team has a big, slow center Thompson can run with. My comment was not meant to be a quality statement only one of bodies. I have no idea how well any will play but play they must since we don't have any real options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 But Relephorde wanted to play guard ... not power forward. That was my understanding and so when RM and he talked and RM told him could stay but that he would have to be a 3 or a 4 he said that he would rather move on - you can not fault the kid for wanting to do what he thought was best for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This team needs players at all positions, not just small forward. Majerus not allowing Relphorde to play his natural position when he's likely to play heavy minutes at small forward for the no. 1 juco team in the country is talent wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 These statements are absurd. You haven't seen these kids play or practice. You have no idea how much or how little they will play. You have no idea how good or bad their fundamentals are at this point. Opinions are fine, but you shouldn't state unsubstantiated criticism as facts.Reed only in the all-star game. How long does it take to figure out that Reed is a project? Readily apparent. Not playing last year sure didn't help the situation. As far as Thompson, I'm not the only one who thinks he will be playing a support roll this season. How is that conclusion absurd? RM requires his bigs to run the floor. How many times do I have to watch Brett to discern that this is going to be an issue with RM? We'll see how it plays out. Would be pleased to be shown wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This is exactly why I was pissed when I heard they "mutually" agreed Relephorde should leave. RM demands his bigs run the floor. Relephorde can run and at least has the size to man the PF position. Our two freshman can't be counted on for big minutes. Tommie or I would think Femi John are going to be forced into playing some 4 as things stand now. It sucks. The coaching staff should have been begging Relephorde to return rather than turning up their nose and telling the kid they had limited minutes for him. This could have kept us out of extended minutes of 4 guard. Heaven forbid Barry or Conklin get hurt or are in foul trouble. JJ. Other than Relephorde's height listed on the roster sheet, what do you base your statements on. Relephorde barely played at all last year and all practices were closed. By all accounts, Relephorde is not, never has been and does not want to be the power forward you think. In case you didn't hear, Brad Soderberg tried, but failed, each year to recruit such a player. Redirect your anger toward him and the prior regime. Also, I seriously doubt that Femi John will play much, if any, at the 4 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 JJ. Other than Relephorde's height listed on the roster sheet, what do you base your statements on. Relephorde barely played at all last year and all practices were closed. By all accounts, Relephorde is not, never has been and does not want to be the power forward you think. In case you didn't hear, Brad Soderberg tried, but failed, each year to recruit such a player. Redirect your anger toward him and the prior regime. Also, I seriously doubt that Femi John will play much, if any, at the 4 this year. AK got more minutes and if you were so selfish as to keep an insurance player he certainly tried the hardest. AK surely had a higher number of points , average and rebounds than MR. MR looked the part as far as a body type but so many of these kids want to shoot the three against smaller players or some other thing they did well in high school like play with your back to the board when now you are 6-6 against seven footers. That being said what is wrong with RM setting standards as who can play at the level he seeks. Our seven new players will soon make us forget the players we recruited who chose to go on so they could have great seasons elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 But Relephorde wanted to play guard ... not power forward. and I believe his skills were more suited to him being a 2-3 than a 3-4. I don't think we ever got to see the real MR, everytime he entered a game he appeared so tight and afraid to make a mistake. He was clearly thinking too much and it showed. Playing the 4, is a mindset. You have 6'5" guys who can be very effective 4's, because they are physical, they want to use their bodies and they prefer to play the game inside. You also have 6'8" players who aren't good 4's, because they don't love the contact and it shows. Imo MR leaving was best for him, he should find a place where the system suits his game and I would bet he turns into a nice player. I don't mean that as a knock on RM, or am I trying to say he should have been able to mold RM into the player he wanted him to be. For whatever reason MR was never able to flow smoothly in RM's offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 and I believe his skills were more suited to him being a 2-3 than a 3-4. I don't think we ever got to see the real MR, everytime he entered a game he appeared so tight and afraid to make a mistake. He was clearly thinking too much and it showed. Playing the 4, is a mindset. You have 6'5" guys who can be very effective 4's, because they are physical, they want to use their bodies and they prefer to play the game inside. You also have 6'8" players who aren't good 4's, because they don't love the contact and it shows. Imo MR leaving was best for him, he should find a place where the system suits his game and I would bet he turns into a nice player. I don't mean that as a knock on RM, or am I trying to say he should have been able to mold RM into the player he wanted him to be. For whatever reason MR was never able to flow smoothly in RM's offense. i totally agree with skip. indian hills, the best juco program in the country couldnt wait to get him on the roster. in this past month's "basketball times" the juco report by tony jimenez has extremely good things and high expectations for marcus at indian hills. not keeping relephorde happy (especially considering we had two open spots) was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 i totally agree with skip. indian hills, the best juco program in the country couldnt wait to get him on the roster. in this past month's "basketball times" the juco report by tony jimenez has extremely good things and high expectations for marcus at indian hills. not keeping relephorde happy (especially considering we had two open spots) was a mistake. I also agree with Skip, but I disagree with your assesment that it was a mistake not to keep Relphorde happy. Every coach looks for different types of kids with different types of skill sets in his program. For whatever reason, Relphorde was not the type of kid Majerus is looking for in his program. (And one thing I have observed is that Majerus is very, very perceptive and particular in evaluting the type of players he wants in his sytem.) It doesn't mean that Relphorde isn't a good ballplayer or person or that Majerus is wrong in not valuing his skill set; instead it means that Relphorde (like Anthony Mitchell) would be best suited in a different system under a different coach. IMO, providing Relphorde with less-than-candid feedback in order to keep him "happy" would have been a big mistake that would not have benefitted Relphorde or SLU in the long-run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I also agree with Skip, but I disagree with your assesment that it was a mistake not to keep Relphorde happy. Every coach looks for different types of kids with different types of skill sets in his program. For whatever reason, Relphorde was not the type of kid Majerus is looking for in his program. (And one thing I have observed is that Majerus is very, very perceptive and particular in evaluting the type of players he wants in his sytem.) It doesn't mean that Relphorde isn't a good ballplayer or person or that Majerus is wrong in not valuing his skill set; instead it means that Relphorde (like Anthony Mitchell) would be best suited in a different system under a different coach. IMO, providing Relphorde with less-than-candid feedback in order to keep him "happy" would have been a big mistake that would not have benefitted Relphorde or SLU in the long-run. You hit the nail square on the head. I don't think anyone was wrong. I hope it works out well for Marcus, and of course for RM. I've also said the same thing about whether releasing the kids was right or not. Though, I don't agree with the rules of the NCAA regarding a kid losing a year when his scholarship is not renewed, I also think it would be a huge diservice to the kid for a coach to be less than 100% honest about how you see his future at your school. Imo, that would be truly using the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 i totally agree with skip. indian hills, the best juco program in the country couldnt wait to get him on the roster. in this past month's "basketball times" the juco report by tony jimenez has extremely good things and high expectations for marcus at indian hills. not keeping relephorde happy (especially considering we had two open spots) was a mistake. Roy. The 2 open spots are now open b/c we lost out on Harrelson and some of the Spring JUCOs RM was trying to get. Don't believe you are suggesting that RM should have waited to see if he can fill these 2 spots first and then dismiss MR (and AK), or are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 i totally agree with skip. indian hills, the best juco program in the country couldnt wait to get him on the roster. in this past month's "basketball times" the juco report by tony jimenez has extremely good things and high expectations for marcus at indian hills. not keeping relephorde happy (especially considering we had two open spots) was a mistake. I would hope that RM never considered "keeping relephorde happy" This is Majerus' team, not Marcus' and its not like Marcus was dismissed against his wishes. He was kept happy by being given his release. Majerus saw it one way, and Marcus saw it another. There is no reason to call it a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Roy. The 2 open spots are now open b/c we lost out on Harrelson and some of the Spring JUCOs RM was trying to get. Don't believe you are suggesting that RM should have waited to see if he can fill these 2 spots first and then dismiss MR (and AK), or are you? well first i would of course say again, he shouldnt have been cutting anyone. but even if the cuts were tolerable, i would say yes, he shouldnt have cut them until he had the bodies to fill those spots. what would the difference have been 2 weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 well first i would of course say again, he shouldnt have been cutting anyone. but even if the cuts were tolerable, i would say yes, he shouldnt have cut them until he had the bodies to fill those spots. what would the difference have been 2 weeks? I have felt all along that he should have kept Knollmeyer. The kid was a big body who I felt did ok in his limited time. You could have still taken Harrilson. Danny L is just an after thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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