davidnark Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Over the course of the last several months, I have had the pleasure of listening to Jim Thomas provide Rams' insight on Bernie's show several times a week during my evening commute. I have also read most of his Rams' articles and have often skimmed his weekly chat transcripts. For those who are not familiar with Jim, he is a Rams' football writer and a consummate professional. Jim has developed a well-earned reputation as a top-tier NFL writer who is trusted and respected by his readers, his colleagues, and the teams and players he covers. What I have noticed this fall, however, is that one reason Jim is so good at what he does is because he is passionate about the game and the team he covers. In short, he is a fan of the team and sport he covers and--while he always maintains his objectivity and professionalism--his passion and interest is readily apparent in everything he does. I am convinced that Jim would not be anywhere near as good at his job if he didn't care about the team he covered. Three and a half weeks ago, a dimwit with low emotional intelligence could still pick up the despair and disappointment in his voice when Jim discussed the Rams. By contrast, today Jim sounded like a virgin on his honeymoon when he discussed the Rams. I have criticized my friend Roy for suggesting on this board that Timmeman and others in the local media should be more of a fan of the Billikens. In principle, I have historically disagreed with Roy, but now believe there is something significant to the point Roy has previously raised. Timmerman is a fine writer and covers SLU basketball as a professional, but Tom is clearly not a vested fan with a passion for SLU basketball. (Tom's passion for soccer is visible in his coverage of that sport.) While Tom does a fine job covering SLU, his lack of passion for the program is reflected in the type and volume of stories he provides. (Have we ever received any advance recruiting tidbits or rumors from Tom? Do we receive any practice updates or non-game related information that doesn't involve number crunching? Have we received any blog updates since school started?) Fortunately for SLU fans, Cusumano, Ramsey, and Earl have that passion; unfortunately, they represent a minority of the local sports media and do not touch the major local newspaper. I wish Tom continued success in his career, but I hope that someday our program is covered by a passionate fan of the sport and the local team--long suffering Billiken fans deserve that quality of coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Over the course of the last several months, I have had the pleasure of listening to Jim Thomas provide Rams' insight on Bernie's show several times a week during my evening commute. I have also read most of his Rams' articles and have often skimmed his weekly chat transcripts. For those who are not familiar with Jim, he is a Rams' football writer and a consummate professional. Jim has developed a well-earned reputation as a top-tier NFL writer who is trusted and respected by his readers, his colleagues, and the teams and players he covers. What I have noticed this fall, however, is that one reason Jim is so good at what he does is because he is passionate about the game and the team he covers. In short, he is a fan of the team and sport he covers and--while he always maintains his objectivity and professionalism--his passion and interest is readily apparent in everything he does. I am convinced that Jim would not be anywhere near as good at his job if he didn't care about the team he covered. Three and a half weeks ago, a dimwit with low emotional intelligence could still pick up the despair and disappointment in his voice when Jim discussed the Rams. By contrast, today Jim sounded like a virgin on his honeymoon when he discussed the Rams. I have criticized my friend Roy for suggesting on this board that Timmeman and others in the local media should be more of a fan of the Billikens. In principle, I have historically disagreed with Roy, but now believe there is something significant to the point Roy has previously raised. Timmerman is a fine writer and covers SLU basketball as a professional, but Tom is clearly not a vested fan with a passion for SLU basketball. (Tom's passion for soccer is visible in his coverage of that sport.) While Tom does a fine job covering SLU, his lack of passion for the program is reflected in the type and volume of stories he provides. (Have we ever received any advance recruiting tidbits or rumors from Tom? Do we receive any practice updates or non-game related information that doesn't involve number crunching? Have we received any blog updates since school started?) Fortunately for SLU fans, Cusumano, Ramsey, and Earl have that passion; unfortunately, they represent a minority of the local sports media and do not touch the major local newspaper. I wish Tom continued success in his career, but I hope that someday our program is covered by a passionate fan of the sport and the local team--long suffering Billiken fans deserve that quality of coverage. Nark, I couldn't agree with you (and Roy) more. However, in TT's defense, he made it clear at a Billiken Club meeting last year that he has almost no access to RM. That doesn't mean he couldn't do some player interviews/profiles, but he is no more welcome at Practice than we are. Just give thanks that FC, Rammer and EA keep the "passion." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Over the course of the last several months, I have had the pleasure of listening to Jim Thomas provide Rams' insight on Bernie's show several times a week during my evening commute. I have also read most of his Rams' articles and have often skimmed his weekly chat transcripts. For those who are not familiar with Jim, he is a Rams' football writer and a consummate professional. Jim has developed a well-earned reputation as a top-tier NFL writer who is trusted and respected by his readers, his colleagues, and the teams and players he covers. What I have noticed this fall, however, is that one reason Jim is so good at what he does is because he is passionate about the game and the team he covers. In short, he is a fan of the team and sport he covers and--while he always maintains his objectivity and professionalism--his passion and interest is readily apparent in everything he does. I am convinced that Jim would not be anywhere near as good at his job if he didn't care about the team he covered. Three and a half weeks ago, a dimwit with low emotional intelligence could still pick up the despair and disappointment in his voice when Jim discussed the Rams. By contrast, today Jim sounded like a virgin on his honeymoon when he discussed the Rams. I have criticized my friend Roy for suggesting on this board that Timmeman and others in the local media should be more of a fan of the Billikens. In principle, I have historically disagreed with Roy, but now believe there is something significant to the point Roy has previously raised. Timmerman is a fine writer and covers SLU basketball as a professional, but Tom is clearly not a vested fan with a passion for SLU basketball. (Tom's passion for soccer is visible in his coverage of that sport.) While Tom does a fine job covering SLU, his lack of passion for the program is reflected in the type and volume of stories he provides. (Have we ever received any advance recruiting tidbits or rumors from Tom? Do we receive any practice updates or non-game related information that doesn't involve number crunching? Have we received any blog updates since school started?) Fortunately for SLU fans, Cusumano, Ramsey, and Earl have that passion; unfortunately, they represent a minority of the local sports media and do not touch the major local newspaper. I wish Tom continued success in his career, but I hope that someday our program is covered by a passionate fan of the sport and the local team--long suffering Billiken fans deserve that quality of coverage. Does TT give advanced recruiting tidbits or rumors regarding soccer? I won't claim to have read every soccer piece he's done, but I don't remember too much of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 -David, at the risk of debating with a moderator....and in no particluar order....and i maybe missing your entire point... -would we all like more and/or better coverage of slu sports, mbball in particular?? God yes -how many people bought a post today to read Rams coverage? -how many people last year bought a Post to read SLU coverage? -that contention that long suffering slu fans deserve more coverage is great, except i have to think somewhere at Lee Enterprises there is someone that knows a bit about what sells papers (i don't know this answer, but has the circulation of the Post dropped more than the average American daily newspaper? if so, is this drop due to less slu coverage?) -it comes down to dollars and sense, look at our radio deal, oh wait, you can't, is the lack of a radio deal due to Ramsay not having a passion about slu? -Tom T could write about SLU until the cows come home, but does that mean the paper will give him the space to publish the articles? if it sells papers or advertising, yeah it would get published -has slu encumbered some of this on itself? sure, no natural rivalries due at least in part with conference switching, maybe the secrecy or lack of access has an impact, but not winning consistenly has an awful lot to do with it also, imo -i think Tom T has done a fine job on slu mbball -perhaps i am the only one that thinks this way, but i am fine with that if that is the case, but there is a pecking order to coverage/space alloted/time alloted and it is determined a great deal on what sells, slu at this point does not sell -i have agreed that slu should spend some of its money to promote/advertise/cover itself until the point arrives where the clamoring for coverage would not necessitate that -but until we raise our position in the pecking order or spend our own funds, i think we are where we are -btw, comparing the nfl to anything else sports wise is probably a losing proposition for whatever is being compared to the nfl -how do you make someone a passionate fan? is this slu's job? the post's job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Over the course of the last several months, I have had the pleasure of listening to Jim Thomas provide Rams' insight on Bernie's show several times a week during my evening commute. I have also read most of his Rams' articles and have often skimmed his weekly chat transcripts. For those who are not familiar with Jim, he is a Rams' football writer and a consummate professional. Jim has developed a well-earned reputation as a top-tier NFL writer who is trusted and respected by his readers, his colleagues, and the teams and players he covers. What I have noticed this fall, however, is that one reason Jim is so good at what he does is because he is passionate about the game and the team he covers. In short, he is a fan of the team and sport he covers and--while he always maintains his objectivity and professionalism--his passion and interest is readily apparent in everything he does. I am convinced that Jim would not be anywhere near as good at his job if he didn't care about the team he covered. Three and a half weeks ago, a dimwit with low emotional intelligence could still pick up the despair and disappointment in his voice when Jim discussed the Rams. By contrast, today Jim sounded like a virgin on his honeymoon when he discussed the Rams. I have criticized my friend Roy for suggesting on this board that Timmeman and others in the local media should be more of a fan of the Billikens. In principle, I have historically disagreed with Roy, but now believe there is something significant to the point Roy has previously raised. Timmerman is a fine writer and covers SLU basketball as a professional, but Tom is clearly not a vested fan with a passion for SLU basketball. (Tom's passion for soccer is visible in his coverage of that sport.) While Tom does a fine job covering SLU, his lack of passion for the program is reflected in the type and volume of stories he provides. (Have we ever received any advance recruiting tidbits or rumors from Tom? Do we receive any practice updates or non-game related information that doesn't involve number crunching? Have we received any blog updates since school started?) Fortunately for SLU fans, Cusumano, Ramsey, and Earl have that passion; unfortunately, they represent a minority of the local sports media and do not touch the major local newspaper. I wish Tom continued success in his career, but I hope that someday our program is covered by a passionate fan of the sport and the local team--long suffering Billiken fans deserve that quality of coverage. Nark, in case you haven't read it, I recommend Chuck Klosterman's Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs for his chapter about the media. He's worked for a number of newspapers and magazines and his chapter on the media is a great perspective and one part of it is about "why sports writers hate sports." His argument is that like anyone else, they enter a job as a sports writer with a lot of enthusiasm but that it quickly dies. They have to deal with egotistical athletes, coaches, and management on a regular basis, very seldom see any sports figures stray from typical boring answers, have less access the higher the level they cover, and so on. But the worst part of the sports writer's job, he says, is that they no longer have an identity other than sports as far as their friends and family are concerned, and all people will ever want to talk about with them is sports. This makes for surly, bitter sports writers who now treat their jobs more like a grind and less like the exciting job they thought it would be. Anyway, the point is that a guy like Jim Thomas is rare and if the Post-Dispatch ever wants a SLU beat writer with some passion, then it will have to hire one of us. Timmerman's not bad, but I agree that he's not great, either. I don't know how much of this is on him and how much of this is on his employer for limiting how SLU will be covered. His blog is great to have, but the updates aren't nearly as frequent as I'd like to see (during the season, Dustin Dow updates his Xavier blog for the Enquirer pretty much daily, and usually multiple times on game days). I liked Stu Durando, but he also wasn't a guy I'd consider passionate about his job. He was even-keel and down to earth and at a lot of practices- just couldn't be considered a true SLU cheerleader like Frank, Earl, or Rammer. I wouldn't expect to see a true SLU fan in that beat writer position anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Tom does a good job with the SLU beat. There are factors beyond his control (like space in the paper and access to the team) that lead to the problems you guys are bringing up here. This fall, as Tom wrote in his blog, he's also had to spend time covering Missouri as well. The cure for what you guys want is a team that wins a lot of games. It's pretty simple. If SLU wins and wins and wins, you'll see more coverage in the media (on TV, radio and newspaper) and more and more people get behind and get excited for the program. I used to listen to Missouri fans complain all the time about how the newspaper's negative stories were hurting the school's sports teams and how the lack of a TV contract was hurting recruiting. What has happened in the last year and a half since Mizzou started winning a lot of football games? The Tigers are all over the place, in the papers, on TV and are talked about on the radio every day. When SLU starts winning and making regular NCAA tournament appearances, you'll have several radio stations fighting for the chance to broadcast the games. You'll see the Billikens all over the newspaper and the TV stations would be doing stories all the time. How many people who ask about the lack of recruiting updates visit my site where you can read about the recruits SLU is after? I'm guessing those people have no interest in paying to subscribe to a site to read more about the team and the recruits. Those same people probably don't subscribe to the P-D, either, and instead rely on whatever free info is posted online. (And the decision-makers in the newspaper industry, which is dying a slow death, wonder why subscriptions are down when they give away their content and then have to cut back on space and resources because of it?) I bet if a bunch of people called the P-D and said they would subscribe if there was more SLU coverage, you'd see some results. The program is on the way to where fans want it to be and the media coverage will get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Let me clarify my point. I am not suggesting Tom is doing a bad job, and I am definitely not suggesting he be fired or trying to rally a movement to have him fired or reassigned. Instead, I am just pointing out my observation--with Jim Thomas as an example--that the best and most in-depth coverage will come from a writer with a passionate, personal interest in the program he or she is covering. I can't fault Tom for not having that passion; again, he is just doing the job he has been assigned to so. (And I see that passion in his soccer coverage.) Instead, I am just hoping that someday we could have a SLU beat writer blessed with that kind of passion for the program. Who would that be? I don't know. Maybe Bonwich could someday move to a new role. Maybe Nate will develop that passion for SLU (he clearly already has it for college basketball generally) and will get a shot. Maybe there is a new kid coming up that we don't even know. I also believe that blogs, online forums, and the many radio outlets provide today's writer with opportunities to share information that is not limit by the space on a newspaper page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 -David, at the risk of debating with a moderator....and in no particluar order....and i maybe missing your entire point... Cowboy, there is no risk with debating with this moderator. All contrary views are welcome and encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 -David, at the risk of debating with a moderator....and in no particluar order....and i maybe missing your entire point... -would we all like more and/or better coverage of slu sports, mbball in particular?? God yes -how many people bought a post today to read Rams coverage? -how many people last year bought a Post to read SLU coverage? -that contention that long suffering slu fans deserve more coverage is great, except i have to think somewhere at Lee Enterprises there is someone that knows a bit about what sells papers (i don't know this answer, but has the circulation of the Post dropped more than the average American daily newspaper? if so, is this drop due to less slu coverage?) -it comes down to dollars and sense, look at our radio deal, oh wait, you can't, is the lack of a radio deal due to Ramsay not having a passion about slu? -Tom T could write about SLU until the cows come home, but does that mean the paper will give him the space to publish the articles? if it sells papers or advertising, yeah it would get published -has slu encumbered some of this on itself? sure, no natural rivalries due at least in part with conference switching, maybe the secrecy or lack of access has an impact, but not winning consistenly has an awful lot to do with it also, imo -i think Tom T has done a fine job on slu mbball -perhaps i am the only one that thinks this way, but i am fine with that if that is the case, but there is a pecking order to coverage/space alloted/time alloted and it is determined a great deal on what sells, slu at this point does not sell -i have agreed that slu should spend some of its money to promote/advertise/cover itself until the point arrives where the clamoring for coverage would not necessitate that -but until we raise our position in the pecking order or spend our own funds, i think we are where we are -btw, comparing the nfl to anything else sports wise is probably a losing proposition for whatever is being compared to the nfl -how do you make someone a passionate fan? is this slu's job? the post's job? To be clear, I don't even read or subscribe to the print edition of the newspaper. Like many of my peers my age (mid 30's) and younger, I get all of my news and information online (often at stltoday.com) and through the radio and TV. All of my comments are therefore tied to the beat writers ancillary actions such as blogging, message boards, scheduled chat sessions, and radio interviews. Regardless of the number of Rams fans versus Billiken fans buying newspapers, these technological opportunties to share news and information are readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 All of my comments are therefore tied to the beat writers ancillary actions such as blogging, message boards, scheduled chat sessions, and radio interviews. I understand that. But, if you remember, Tom did a very good job with his blog last year during the season, adding updates several times a week that added a lot more coverage than people would get in the paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I am not an expert on the media but I do respect passion when coupled with professionalism and objectivity. In this regard I want to plug a national sports figure, Bob Ryan. As a senior writer at the Boston Globe and ESPN talking head, I cannot say I followed him much (as he was usually writing about the local teams whom he loves). But two things he did made him stand out and deserve some respect. First, I sat next to him on a plane while he was going down to Atlanta. He was working the whole time. He had 4 newspapers with him and he read nearly everything in them. I only had minor interaction with him and he might have seemed a bit gruff--he was nice at the end when someone walked up to him and praised him for a well-written column about his son. It was only then I realized that his son (I don't read the Globe) had died a few months earlier and I could not have had more respect for the way he handled the potentially awkward situation with a stranger. Ryan lost his son in the most difficult of ways (officially of suicide in Pakistan with lots of questions) and stayed classy acknowledging his grief publicly but keeping what needed to be private private. Second, some of you may have heard the Boston Red Sox lost to the Tampa Bay Rays. Ryan wrote a nice piece the day after giving credit to the Rays for deserving their victory, a decent and brave move with the notably provincial Boston market (and generally giving the Rays credit the whole season while most Boston fans kept insisting they were lucky or a fluke). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Over the course of the last several months, I have had the pleasure of listening to Jim Thomas provide Rams' insight on Bernie's show several times a week during my evening commute. .......I couldn't agree more. I enjoy Tom's stories and think he does a good job. I really love the blog during the season. But, having a beat writer who is also a huge fan is a big difference. You can just tell. An arguement on this site has always been that we need to the writer's to be objective. They are not fans, they are journalists. I completely agree with that when we are talking about politics, race, religion, economy, etc. But, sports....and especially writers dedicated to a single team...are the exception. We don't need our journalists to be objective. They're the only ones we have, and we want passion. We want people who are going the extra mile because they REALLY want to...not because they need to earn the pay check. I'm in SEC country and I'm sure everybody is aware of the passion around here. Hell, just read all the stuff that UK wrote during the Harrelson recruitment. That wasn't objective. They weren't respecting this team and that team. It was all about Kentucky and how they are the best. I hope one day will we be good enough to have such passion in the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 ironically i have grown to appreciate timmermann. i think he has grown to accept the position and i think his work shows much more enthusiasm for the program as compared to when he first took over. the blog is a wonderful addition (i wish he would write on it considerably more) that allowed for the tidbit information that the casual fan probably doesnt care about but us hardcore fans love to read. i think given time, tom will continue to show more passion for the billikens. like any job/career, one becomes more intimately involved as they spend time day after day doing the tasks involved and it seems to evolve to an almost ownership scenario. thomas of course took over that beat when the rams were on top. it was likely easy for him to buy in, timmermann gets involved during a period of time that the fandom of the billikens had slid into a air of indifference that imo was just not justified to the degree happening. the catch 22 was that tom probably wasnt excited because of the lack of program buzz, but the program could have been more energized with a more passionate tom timmermann. this is where i i think the slu athletic dept could have taken a more proactive path. i have long preached we should regularly be wining, dining and entertaining the media. we should be doing everything plus 10 to accomodate them as though they were the royalty of the media world. that kind of attention is bound to get some bounce. and maybe we do that. i dont know. but i suspect we do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Does TT give advanced recruiting tidbits or rumors regarding soccer? I won't claim to have read every soccer piece he's done, but I don't remember too much of that. I am not really referring to TT's coverage of SLU soccer, but soccer generally. TT has provided great information regarding Cooper's bid for an MLS team and the men's US National team. You can just tell from the soccer stuff he is publishing that he really enjoys researching and writing about soccer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I am not really referring to TT's coverage of SLU soccer, but soccer generally. TT has provided great information regarding Cooper's bid for an MLS team and the men's US National team. You can just tell from the soccer stuff he is publishing that he really enjoys researching and writing about soccer. He has pretty consistently written from the perspective of the St. Louis investor (Cooper) group and I not been very impressed there (I think he has done a good job on SLU stuff). He has consistently said St. Louis will be getting the 17th team and is real close. That all may be true but that is not what other media markets are reporting (there are now 7 competing bids on the table and to my knowledge he has never made that clear). He also said they would start in 2010 and that is definitely wrong as it now looks 2011 and maybe even 2012. I have no idea who will get the next team--seems to me St. Louis is a good choice but I know fans are pretty rabid in Montreal and other bids have more money. Timmerman's reporting would have benefited from a little more independent research and thinking. Other national press and St. Louis press have mentioned some of St. Louis weaknesses (Collinsville and money). Again, St. Louis has a strong bid--its just his reporting has included too much PR and is weak on perspective. I follow the issue as the New England Revolution have been trying to relocate to Somerville, MA where I live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 -David, at the risk of debating with a moderator....and in no particluar order....and i maybe missing your entire point... -would we all like more and/or better coverage of slu sports, mbball in particular?? God yes -how many people bought a post today to read Rams coverage? -how many people last year bought a Post to read SLU coverage? -that contention that long suffering slu fans deserve more coverage is great, except i have to think somewhere at Lee Enterprises there is someone that knows a bit about what sells papers (i don't know this answer, but has the circulation of the Post dropped more than the average American daily newspaper? if so, is this drop due to less slu coverage?) -it comes down to dollars and sense, look at our radio deal, oh wait, you can't, is the lack of a radio deal due to Ramsay not having a passion about slu? -Tom T could write about SLU until the cows come home, but does that mean the paper will give him the space to publish the articles? if it sells papers or advertising, yeah it would get published -has slu encumbered some of this on itself? sure, no natural rivalries due at least in part with conference switching, maybe the secrecy or lack of access has an impact, but not winning consistenly has an awful lot to do with it also, imo -i think Tom T has done a fine job on slu mbball -perhaps i am the only one that thinks this way, but i am fine with that if that is the case, but there is a pecking order to coverage/space alloted/time alloted and it is determined a great deal on what sells, slu at this point does not sell -i have agreed that slu should spend some of its money to promote/advertise/cover itself until the point arrives where the clamoring for coverage would not necessitate that -but until we raise our position in the pecking order or spend our own funds, i think we are where we are -btw, comparing the nfl to anything else sports wise is probably a losing proposition for whatever is being compared to the nfl -how do you make someone a passionate fan? is this slu's job? the post's job? Cowboy, you've hit the nail on the head. I've been saying this for years. The SLU coverage in the Post is in direct proportion to the interest the team gets in the community. I"m sure Timmerman is writing as much about the program as his bosses want him to. Until there is more interest, the coverage will probably remain the same. I don't buy this notion that the beatwriters are "passionate" about the teams they cover. Is it more fun to cover a winning team? Sure it is. Do you hope they do well? Of course. But let's not confuse that as the same kind of passion a fan might have for the program. I think it's silly to think that Jim Thomas is as passionate about the Rams as Roy is about the Billikens. Jim(and Tom) are journalist, not PR people for the program. I'm not sure why people have a hard time figuring that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 ironically i have grown to appreciate timmermann. i think he has grown to accept the position and i think his work shows much more enthusiasm for the program as compared to when he first took over. the blog is a wonderful addition (i wish he would write on it considerably more) that allowed for the tidbit information that the casual fan probably doesnt care about but us hardcore fans love to read. i think given time, tom will continue to show more passion for the billikens. like any job/career, one becomes more intimately involved as they spend time day after day doing the tasks involved and it seems to evolve to an almost ownership scenario. thomas of course took over that beat when the rams were on top. it was likely easy for him to buy in, timmermann gets involved during a period of time that the fandom of the billikens had slid into a air of indifference that imo was just not justified to the degree happening. the catch 22 was that tom probably wasnt excited because of the lack of program buzz, but the program could have been more energized with a more passionate tom timmermann. this is where i i think the slu athletic dept could have taken a more proactive path. i have long preached we should regularly be wining, dining and entertaining the media. we should be doing everything plus 10 to accomodate them as though they were the royalty of the media world. that kind of attention is bound to get some bounce. and maybe we do that. i dont know. but i suspect we do not. Having had some experience in this area - trying to get the local media to report more about your organization - we tried the wining and dining route but it really did not make any difference, why - everybody was trying to wine and dine them to some extent. What gets you coverage is when the readers show an interest - period. The problem we have is StL is really a three team city when it comes to college BB and it also has two other peripherial teams that they have to give a nod to once in a great while. The Post having to deal with the MU, SLU, IL make it tough to get column space - KC has the same problem with KU, MU and UMKC all within their reading area. The fact that newspapers are loosing money and cutting back on reporting personnel only complicates this issue - will TT be covering MU and SLU now? - I think I heard that someplace but perhaps he will not need to cover MU BB, I need clarification here. Either way - it will only get harder to get more coverage not easier - winning will help but the matter is more complicated then just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 thomas of course took over that beat when the rams were on top. it was likely easy for him to buy in, timmermann gets involved during a period of time that the fandom of the billikens had slid into a air of indifference that imo was just not justified to the degree happening. Didn't Thomas start covering the Rams when they were still in Los Angeles but it was decided they would be moving here? I think that's the case, but that was a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Having had some experience in this area - trying to get the local media to report more about your organization - we tried the wining and dining route but it really did not make any difference, why - everybody was trying to wine and dine them to some extent. What gets you coverage is when the readers show an interest - period. The problem we have is StL is really a three team city when it comes to college BB and it also has two other peripherial teams that they have to give a nod to once in a great while. The Post having to deal with the MU, SLU, IL make it tough to get column space - KC has the same problem with KU, MU and UMKC all within their reading area. The fact that newspapers are loosing money and cutting back on reporting personnel only complicates this issue - will TT be covering MU and SLU now? - I think I heard that someplace but perhaps he will not need to cover MU BB, I need clarification here. Either way - it will only get harder to get more coverage not easier - winning will help but the matter is more complicated then just that. Usually, the Post will shift writers from Mizzou football to Mizzou basketball. Don't think TT will cover both. On another point, RM is certainly a complex personality. For all his good and bad, the one issue I still cannot understand is his treatment of the local media. Not having time for Strickland and the others I can understand. I can also understand the closed practices and his desire to limit the number of speaking engagements for the local fanbase; however, after listening to his radio show last year with Bob Ramsey (the long-time Voice of the Bills and our biggest program supporter) RM clearly showed that they had only spoken on a few prior occasions, that as a result they had developed very little chemistry and that Ramsey was obviously not in RM's loop. TT is treated the same. It just seems like RM would keep them both in the loop not only for the good of the program but for his own sake. Would someone explain why he doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Usually, the Post will shift writers from Mizzou football to Mizzou basketball. Don't think TT will cover both. On another point, RM is certainly a complex personality. For all his good and bad, the one issue I still cannot understand is his treatment of the local media. Not having time for Strickland and the others I can understand. I can also understand the closed practices and his desire to limit the number of speaking engagements for the local fanbase; however, after listening to his radio show last year with Bob Ramsey (the long-time Voice of the Bills and our biggest program supporter) RM clearly showed that they had only spoken on a few prior occasions, that as a result they had developed very little chemistry and that Ramsey was obviously not in RM's loop. TT is treated the same. It just seems like RM would keep them both in the loop not only for the good of the program but for his own sake. Would someone explain why he doesn't? The radio show was a bit strange at times, but I found it highly entertaining. I guess it was not for everybody. I'm sure RM will do those Sunday night sports shows soon. Porter Moser also does an outstanding job and seems to be very active with the radio media. Roy is certainly fighting the good fight with wanting more/better media coverage and hopefully the Ath. Dept. will continue to work on that. I will have to give the Athletic Department a lot of credit for their ticket campaign - I have seen more billboards, radio ads and web ads than I can ever remember seeing in the past. I thought TT was quite good with his blog last year, but he is long overdue for something now. I would also like to see him dig a little more for recruiting, especially with the fall signing period approaching. If he can't get info from RM, I would think he could develop a good relationship with Porter. The best way to generate publicity is to win a lot and I think we got the guy leading the way who can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Having had some experience in this area - trying to get the local media to report more about your organization - we tried the wining and dining route but it really did not make any difference, why - everybody was trying to wine and dine them to some extent. and you dont think it matters if you are the only one that ISNT wining and dining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Wining and dining also brings ethics into play. If you are wining and dining someone, does that mean they should not be critical with you at the obvious time? Also, I understand what you are saying about passion, but are you advocating "homerism?" Again, a fine line. As I pointed out in another thread, St. Louis is a fickle, on-the-bandwagon fan base. Consistenly winning will cure half your ills. Even Majerus isn't a story anymore. The story is the Billiken Kid Club. Kids make mistakes. Will they make more or less. Time will tell. Its nice to have two seniors to lead this bunch but this is a learning year nonetheless. Build it (win) and they shall come. Kind of like the 'Fetz as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 What does wining and dining have to do with media coverage? If someone from the athletic department buys Tom T. dinner, does that mean Tom is suddenly going to pick the Billikens to win the conference and be the top seed in the NCAA tournament? Does he then not write anything if the team loses a game? Media coverage isn't dictated by who a school can buy a meal for — unless that means happens to be for the nation's best recruit on his official visit to the school. It's about winning, not wining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 What does wining and dining have to do with media coverage? If someone from the athletic department buys Tom T. dinner, does that mean Tom is suddenly going to pick the Billikens to win the conference and be the top seed in the NCAA tournament? Does he then not write anything if the team loses a game? Media coverage isn't dictated by who a school can buy a meal for — unless that means happens to be for the nation's best recruit on his official visit to the school. It's about winning, not wining. Agreed. I'm not sure how wining and dining came up in this. People on here make this way more difficult than it is. If they win, they'll get more coverage. If they continue to be mediocre, they won't. it's pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 What does wining and dining have to do with media coverage? If someone from the athletic department buys Tom T. dinner, does that mean Tom is suddenly going to pick the Billikens to win the conference and be the top seed in the NCAA tournament? Does he then not write anything if the team loses a game? Media coverage isn't dictated by who a school can buy a meal for — unless that means happens to be for the nation's best recruit on his official visit to the school. It's about winning, not wining. last week there was a day that was apparently a slow news day and i think if i remember there was a short piece on the tv sports about mi$$ouri basketball. someone here stated slow news day the station was probably looking for a quick filler that day. wouldnt you love to be the first program the station thought of on that "slow day"? you dont think palling around with the decision makers and sports folks might help nudge that what seems like an inconsequential decision? to think otherwise is naive. america runs more on gentle nudges and small favors than what you are suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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