Daniel Lisch now a Billiken

[BLIKNS]

I think there were a total of 5 Luck`s to play at SLU.According to the media guide Dave(60,61,62) Stan(62,63,64)Jeff(88-91)Ryan(96-99),and think Jeff and Ryan had a sister play as well.

In terms of number of years,advantage Luck, as for awards Jeff was 2nd team all MCC in 90-91.Ryan played in NCAA in 97-98,and on NIT team in 95-96. 3 NIT runner ups for Luck`s (Dave 61, Jeff in 89 and 90).

Luechtefeld`s won the MVP award in 91(Jeff)Dedication(Jeff in 88-89)Sportsmanship(Ryan 96-97)Free Throw (Jeff 90-91)

No stats for Dave,however he is in the Billiken Hall of Fame,and a U.S. Senator

Lisch`s ? Kevin,1000 point club(before senior year),4th on career 3 pointers,all A-10(07-08),co-outsanding defender( 05-06)

Too early to call,Kevin could be an All American,and ??? for Teresa and Daniel

One huge advantage Lisch article about Kevin and Teresa both playing at SLU in USA Today.

Something to talk about,now must go get a life.

[BLIKNS]

Diener`s 3rd on list for family royalty? Mimlitz? Koch?

3 Koch`s played for SLU, Don in 42, Bob in 50,51,and 52. Jerry 52-55. The 52 team played in both the NIT and NCAA

Jerry has the record for rebounds in a game with 38!

[BIG BILL FAN]

didnt think you would take back your comments. good job nate. this season why dont you take a few trips across the river instead of staying west of 270 all year long.

btw, daniel didnt walk on because he wasnt going to pay $40k for tuition and room and board when he had a full ride to fontbonne. surely you can even understand that. eckerle already had a full ride academic scholarship to slu at the time. no one was asking him to walk on and pay his own way.

I find your statement that Daniel had a full ride at Fontbonne puzzling. Fontbonne is a D3 school and unable to offer athletic scholarships. If Daniel was in fact offered a full academice scholarship (which would be very rare ) then I would think he could have had a substantial academic scholarship at SLU as well. My opinion is that he is being brought in as a practice player for a year, with the hope of improving his game enough to garner interest from other schools. Maybe he will surprise us. I certainly would never rule out a Lisch.

[brianstl]

didnt think you would take back your comments. good job nate. this season why dont you take a few trips across the river instead of staying west of 270 all year long.

btw, daniel didnt walk on because he wasnt going to pay $40k for tuition and room and board when he had a full ride to fontbonne. surely you can even understand that. eckerle already had a full ride academic scholarship to slu at the time. no one was asking him to walk on and pay his own way.

Div. 3 schools don't give full rides.

Maybe what was holding Daniel back was coaching at the high school level, I don't know. I haven't seen him play in two years. When I saw him two years ago I thought he would be much further along as a player than he seem to end up as when you look at the numbers. Maybe he had already peaked as a player. I guess Rickma saw something in him that he thought was worth giving the kid a shot.

The Lisch family has given a lot to the basketball programs and this is a nice thank you if it doesn't turn out to be anything more than a one year deal.

[Quality Is Job 1]

it's totally perverted! now i'm not much of a critical thinker, but it's gotta be:

a. the carbondale reference

b. stainproof

c. the erotic picture of the soccerball.

d. none of the above

Since you admit it, I have no qualms about deleting it.

And the answer was B.

[billiken_roy]

henry, my point is that nate was wrong in the spring to omit so many illinois high school players from the all metro team last year. he refused to admit he simply had not seen enough of the illinois kids and thus overlooked worthy players for the lower echelon spots on the all metro team.

kids like daniel or the triggs kid at edwardsville should have been on the team somewhere. to now say that daniel still isnt a worthy college player is also questioning rickma imo.

nate took great joy in ripping my suggestion that daniel was worthy of a spot somewhere on the all metro team in that thread, i think he should be eating some crow now that daniel has a full ride athletic scholarship.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Roy,

Congrats on turning a thread about Daniel Lisch becoming a Billiken into another of your useless attempts to discredit me. Good to see you haven't changed.

You trashed Paul Eckerle all season for getting a scholarship at SLU, so I wonder if you'll now do the same with D. Lisch. (Fact error in your earlier post, Eckerle did not have a full academic scholarship to SLU. I'm not sure how many times people have to tell you this.)

So you say I missed a bunch of players from the Illinois side of the river, as compared to the Missouri side, though of course you fail to realize there are far more high schools in the coverage area on the Missouri side of the river than there are on the Illinois side.

The All-Metro team is not based on college prospects or unfulfilled potential. It's supposed to recognize the players who had the best seasons.

Again, we're talking about a kid who averaged 9.2 points, 3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 1.7 steals per game and made 29.5 percent of his 3-point attempts, which averaged out to a little more than one 3-pointer per game. If his name was Smith or Johnson, you wouldn't have anything to say about him. But, again, let's look at facts. Lisch was voted THIRD team in his own conference. So, because this list is in alphabetical order, the coaches in the Southwestern Conference thought Lisch was between the 13th and 19th best player in his own league.

There were 45 players selected for the boys basketball all-metro team this year: five on the first team, five on the second team, five on the third team and 30 on honorable mention. Of those 45, seven were from the SWC — which had more all-metro selections than any other conference in the area.

ALL-SOUTHWESTERN CONFERENCE

(Listed in alphabetical order)

First Team

Anthony Campbell, sr., Edwardsville; Ruben Cotto, sr., Alton; Brandon Hogg, sr., Edwardsville; Jared Woolfolk, sr., O'Fallon; Taylor Evans, sr., Belleville East; Kenny Leverette, sr., O'Fallon

Second Team

Brock Conley, sr., O'Fallon; Kalvin Hilliard, sr., Belleville West; Joe Hines, sr., Edwardsville; Kevin Miller, sr., Belleville East; Darian Sain, sr., East St. Louis; Brandon Smith , sr., Alton.

Third Team

Keith Burton, sr., O'Fallon; Dezmon Hickman, sr., Collinsville; David Jackson, sr., Alton; Daniel Lisch, sr., Belleville West; Kevin Pettiford, jr., Belleville East; Ismiah Roundtree, jr., Edwardsville; Will Triggs, soph., Edwardsville.

[Guest BillikenReport]

to now say that daniel still isnt a worthy college player is also questioning rickma imo.

How many times this year did you question Paul Eckerle's receiving a scholarship and playing time?

Now I'm questioning Rickma?

You make a huge spectacle of ridiculing yourself. You come off looking foolish and bitter.

You also haven't answered this question from HenryB yet:

"Roy, you blasted those who thought Josh H should have been offered out of high school, your reasoning being that his other offer was Western Illinois. With that rationale, why aren't you blasting Rick for bringing on a guy who could do no better than Fontbonne?????? You are losing all credibility on this board because you are consistently changing your position solely to carry out a vendetta against those you don't like."

[kshoe]

kids like daniel or the triggs kid at edwardsville should have been on the team somewhere. to now say that daniel still isnt a worthy college player is also questioning rickma imo.

Roy, you just aren't being neutral on this one. If you can't see that there are unique circumstances in how and why Daniel got this 1-year scholarship then you can't be helped. To say that this scholly somehow proves that Daniel is now a D1 caliber player and somehow Nate is wrong for not recognizing it is ludicrous.

[billiken_roy]

ok nate is a god.

congratulations nate on reaching god status

[Guest BillikenReport]

ok nate is a god.

congratulations nate on reaching god status

Better than Billiken Roy status.

It's funny how you don't respond to the facts presented or questions asked of you.

[billiken_roy]

Roy,

Congrats on turning a thread about Daniel Lisch becoming a Billiken into another of your useless attempts to discredit me.

So you say I missed a bunch of players from the Illinois side of the river, as compared to the Missouri side, though of course you fail to realize there are far more high schools in the coverage area on the Missouri side of the river than there are on the Illinois side.

The All-Metro team is not based on college prospects or unfulfilled potential. It's supposed to recognize the players who had the best seasons.

Again, we're talking about a kid who averaged 9.2 points, 3 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 1.7 steals per game and made 29.5 percent of his 3-point attempts, which averaged out to a little more than one 3-pointer per game. If his name was Smith or Johnson, you wouldn't have anything to say about him. But, again, let's look at facts. Lisch was voted THIRD team in his own conference.

no i only pointed out that you were wrong in discrediting my observations that very good players on the east side were left off the metro team.

that said, i didnt realize that there was apparently some sort of porportional requirement where there has to be an equal percentage of players from the missouri side selected that equal the number of teams on the west side? who cares how many more teams are on the missouri side. pick the best players.

i think you dont really mean "the best season" maybe you mean the best statistics. because if you had seen lisch and triggs for example, you would know how valuable they are to there teams and how much the things that dont show up as ppg they excel in.

as to bringing daniel's name up only because it is lisch, is an insult to daniel. if you saw daniel play, you would realize he was probably the best defensive guard in last season's senior class in the area. as to his three point percentage, go look at the scores of the west games. many a game they were having to put up threes near the end of the game and forced shots will equal missed shots. he is a better shooter than 29%.

as to the southwestern conference, first, it is the best conference south of interstate 80. it is the best conference in the st louis area.

second, a lot of politicing at the coaches meeting where the team is selected. the fact triggs is third team alone should tell you it isnt necessarily accurate.

again i didnt turn this thread into a rip daniel lisch thread. quite the opposite. i am the one supporting daniel. it is those of you that dont want to admit nate messed up on the all metro team that is knocking daniel.

all nate had to do was say,

" hmmmm. maybe daniel and some of those illinois kids are better than i thought. congratualtions daniel lisch for proving me i overlooked you in the spring. welcome to saint louis university!"

but that didnt happen.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Roy,

Go back and check your old private messages until you find the one where I suggested Daniel Lisch should try walking on at SLU.

I agree the Southwestern Conference is the best in the area, in basketball, football and baseball (and probably other sports but those are the three I see the most).

Funny how you use statistics to support your arguments, until they work against you. Daniel Lisch made 29.5 percent of his 3-point attempts last season. You can say he's a better shooter, and he may be, but the statistics show he made 29.5 percent of his attempts last season.

If he was as good of a player as you say, he would have been better than third-team all-conference. Those are the coaches who see him play often ... and they voted him as being the 13th through 19th best player in the conference this past season.

I did see Daniel play this season. He was OK. I saw Alton beat Belleville West late in the season. Lisch had seven points — three of his teammates scored more — on two-of-seven shooting, including one of five from 3-point range. He also had six rebounds, two steals and an assist.

This was a game where Ruben Cotto scored like 13 or 14 points in the first two quarters and led his team to a big lead, then his teammates stopped giving him the ball, they almost lost the game. He finished with 21 points. He made nine of 18 shots, including two of five 3-pointers, and had six rebounds, four steals and four assists.

That was a trip I made to Alton to evaluate several players, including Cotto and Lisch and every other player on both teams.

[billiken_roy]

why should he have walked on? it makes absolutely no sense the lisch's shold have just bucked up $160,000 so daniel could be a walkon at slu instead of taking a scholarship offer elsewhere.

as to your seeing daniel for the one game, so he was knocked off the team because you saw him outplayed in a game vs ruben (arguably one of the 2-3 best players in the area and by all accounts just a fabulous offensive player) in a game that alton needed to win to have a shot at possibly tying for the league championship and the opposing coach keyed on daniel.

ok.

[dewey33]

why should he have walked on? it makes absolutely no sense the lisch's shold have just bucked up $160,000 so daniel could be a walkon at slu instead of taking a scholarship offer elsewhere.

as to your seeing daniel for the one game, so he was knocked off the team because you saw him outplayed in a game vs ruben (arguably one of the 2-3 best players in the area and by all accounts just a fabulous offensive player) in a game that alton needed to win to have a shot at possibly tying for the league championship and the opposing coach keyed on daniel.

ok.

Daniel is a coachable athletic kid with decent size for a guard....I bet RM figured he could be a good practice player and he won't use up any eligibility if he doesn't play. Plus...he thinks Kevin is pretty special, so he gets to have his brother as a teammate for his senior season.

I would bet that Daniel will be playing at a DII, DIII or NAIA for the 2009-2010 season, and the time spent at SLU will help him be a very productive player at that level.

[Guest BillikenReport]

why should he have walked on? it makes absolutely no sense the lisch's shold have just bucked up $160,000 so daniel could be a walkon at slu instead of taking a scholarship offer elsewhere.

as to your seeing daniel for the one game, so he was knocked off the team because you saw him outplayed in a game vs ruben (arguably one of the 2-3 best players in the area and by all accounts just a fabulous offensive player) in a game that alton needed to win to have a shot at possibly tying for the league championship and the opposing coach keyed on daniel.

ok.

1) Daniel Lisch would have been a good walk-on candidate for SLU, because he wasn't getting many looks from other schools.

2) Nice of you to jump to the conclusion that Daniel Lisch was "knocked off" the a-m team because he was outplayed by Ruben. Again, Lisch was THIRD TEAM in his own conference, meaning the coaches who saw him play often didn't think he was one of the top 12 players in his own league.

[BIG BILL FAN]

why should he have walked on? it makes absolutely no sense the lisch's shold have just bucked up $160,000 so daniel could be a walkon at slu instead of taking a scholarship offer elsewhere.

as to your seeing daniel for the one game, so he was knocked off the team because you saw him outplayed in a game vs ruben (arguably one of the 2-3 best players in the area and by all accounts just a fabulous offensive player) in a game that alton needed to win to have a shot at possibly tying for the league championship and the opposing coach keyed on daniel.

ok.

Roy, you are conveniently ignoring the question about Daniel's scholarship at Fontbonne. As you are well aware D3 schools do not give athletic scholarships. If Daniel was offered a full ride for his academics at Fontbonne, why are you implying that he would have had to pay full tuition at SLU? I really don't know why you are so upset at Nate. Know one has said Daniel is a terrible player, just that they don't think he is a d1 player. The fact that he had no other offers shows that other coaches had the same opinion. RM has given him an opportunity because of having an available scholarship and hopefully he can take advantage of it. I'm rooting for him, and I am sure all Biliken fans ( including Nate ) are doing the same.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, you are conveniently ignoring the question about Daniel's scholarship at Fontbonne. As you are well aware D3 schools do not give athletic scholarships. If Daniel was offered a full ride for his academics at Fontbonne, why are you implying that he would have had to pay full tuition at SLU? I really don't know why you are so upset at Nate. Know one has said Daniel is a terrible player, just that they don't think he is a d1 player. The fact that he had no other offers shows that other coaches had the same opinion. RM has given him an opportunity because of having an available scholarship and hopefully he can take advantage of it. I'm rooting for him, and I am sure all Biliken fans ( including Nate ) are doing the same.

i wasnt aware that fontbonne has as high academic standards as slu. if so, you have a great point.

i am not upset at nate. i just wish he would acknowledge he shorted the east side in his all metro team for the post and i think this is a great example of his mistake.

[davidnark]

i wasnt aware that fontbonne has as high academic standards as slu. if so, you have a great point.

i am not upset at nate. i just wish he would acknowledge he shorted the east side in his all metro team for the post and i think this is a great example of his mistake.

The Lisch kid didn't even score in double figures his senior year in high school. How in the world was Nate making a mistake by not including him on all-metro teams? Whether Majerus is letting him walk-on and utilize an unusued scholarship for a year doesn't have anything to do with whether he was worthy of all-metro status in high scool.

[stlsfinest]

if you saw daniel play, you would realize he was probably the best defensive guard in last season's senior class in the area.

Wow!

[billiken_roy]

The Lisch kid didn't even score in double figures his senior year in high school. How in the world was Nate making a mistake by not including him on all-metro teams? Whether Majerus is letting him walk-on and utilize an unusued scholarship for a year doesn't have anything to do with whether he was worthy of all-metro status in high scool.

i am sure you meant to say he didnt average double figures because daniel scored in double figures numerous times last season including 18 vs ruben in their first matchup. he also had very good games vs edwardsville, o'fallon and memphis mitchell i.e. some of his highest scoring games were against the very best competition.

if you all think rickma is providing a charity scholarship you are way off. this is the same coach that cut four players because he didnt want to waste scholarships on what he deemed to be unworthy players. now you same folks are saying he is giving away an unworthy scholarship. that makes absolutely no sense.

david you obviously have never seen daniel play. you are basing your opinion on glancing at the stltoday stat page.

[Majerus Magic]

A couple things

1) Roy, everyone knows you are close to and partial to the Lisch family. It is okay. I have admitted I am a Borgia Homer. Everyone knows it now and they factor it in whenever I make comments. I advise you to admit have a crush on the Lisch Family as I have done on all things Borgia. It will make your life better.

2) To think that Majerus' love for Kevin didn't play into his decision to offer Daniel a scholarship is naive. You claim this not to be true because "this is the same guy that cut four players." To me, that is irrelevant because it is obvious that Majerus has a borderline man crush on Kevin and would do things for the Lisch family that he would not normally do. You don't think that giving Kevin the opportunity to play with his brother for his senior year had anything to do with the decision to bring on Daniel for a year? Honestly? Come on Roy, you know the answer but you are to damn stubborn to admit it.

3) I don't see how Daniel signing with the Bills automatically justifies his being placed higher on the All Metro team. You cannot ignore the facts in that he averaged less than 10 points a game and most of his other statistics were well below the average for most of the players on the Metro teams. There have been many players that have been named All Metro First team and have gone no where in college. Simply signing with a college does not elevate or validate your high school statistics.

4) I find poetic justice in this entire situation. Roy lambasted those who thought Josh H. was worthy of a scholarship because "he signed with the 337th ranked team in D1." Now that a member of the golden Lisch family has pretty much had the same situation occur he wants to completely ignore the crusade that he went on last year against Josh.

By the way, this entire board recently has become one giant ***** fest and is no fun to read. What the hell is going on?

[Guest BillikenReport]

A couple things

1) Roy, everyone knows you are close to and partial to the Lisch family. It is okay. I have admitted I am a Borgia Homer. Everyone knows it now and they factor it in whenever I make comments. I advise you to admit have a crush on the Lisch Family as I have done on all things Borgia. It will make your life better.

2) To think that Majerus' love for Kevin didn't play into his decision to offer Daniel a scholarship is naive. You claim this not to be true because "this is the same guy that cut four players." To me, that is irrelevant because it is obvious that Majerus has a borderline man crush on Kevin and would do things for the Lisch family that he would not normally do. You don't think that giving Kevin the opportunity to play with his brother for his senior year had anything to do with the decision to bring on Daniel for a year? Honestly? Come on Roy, you know the answer but you are to damn stubborn to admit it.

3) I don't see how Daniel signing with the Bills automatically justifies his being placed higher on the All Metro team. You cannot ignore the facts in that he averaged less than 10 points a game and most of his other statistics were well below the average for most of the players on the Metro teams. There have been many players that have been named All Metro First team and have gone no where in college. Simply signing with a college does not elevate or validate your high school statistics.

4) I find poetic justice in this entire situation. Roy lambasted those who thought Josh H. was worthy of a scholarship because "he signed with the 337th ranked team in D1." Now that a member of the golden Lisch family has pretty much had the same situation occur he wants to completely ignore the crusade that he went on last year against Josh.

By the way, this entire board recently has become one giant ***** fest and is no fun to read. What the hell is going on?

Good post, but you forgot to mention Roy's crusade to criticize Paul Eckerle last season ... for basically doing the same thing Daniel Lisch is now going to do.

[MB73]

henry, my point is that nate was wrong in the spring to omit so many illinois high school players from the all metro team last year. he refused to admit he simply had not seen enough of the illinois kids and thus overlooked worthy players for the lower echelon spots on the all metro team.

kids like daniel or the triggs kid at edwardsville should have been on the team somewhere. to now say that daniel still isnt a worthy college player is also questioning rickma imo.

nate took great joy in ripping my suggestion that daniel was worthy of a spot somewhere on the all metro team in that thread, i think he should be eating some crow now that daniel has a full ride athletic scholarship.

RE: All Metro, over the years the "east side" readership issue has presented problems for many sports, not just hoops.

Some years an "east side" players or two are on All Metro teams to strictly to appease Illinois readers, at the expense of some good MO players; a few that I am very aware of and familiar with. Sometimes it might be the other way around. EVERYBODY knows this.

Over time, it probably balances out, but the systems is not perfect.

IMO, this one, Danny Lisch: seems like he should NOT have been in All Metro consideration, RM has an extra scholarship to give him to be a practice player, Danny improves and moves on to somewhere he can play, everyone wins. This should not be used to validate that Danny should have been on any of the All Metro teams.

[moytoy12]

Good post Majerus Magic.

Is the disagreement over two players that should have been included as honorable mentions and were not? I mean, I could understand why folks would be upset if Nate and others didn't name potential 1st teamers to the team at all, but if this is over not naming the a couple of borderline players as honorable mentions, then that seems a little over the top.

I have no clue since i have never seen any of them play.

Thicks, was your "delete jimbo's post" in this thread serious?