Adam Knollmeyer to Missouri S and T

[TheChosenOne]

But why does that need to come up on a thread where others are congratulating them and wishing them well. Nobody has said (unless I missed something) anything as far as these kids being a big loss or wishing that they were still on the team so I see no need for it.

[Billiken Rich]

Roy, what was nasty about any of this? The kids are D-2 ball players and that isn't a taking a shot at somebody. The previous coach left this program in a very bad spot roster talent wise. Those are the facts. To act like they aren't is just being delusional.

I think cetrtainly Adam and maybe Dustin too would be playing D1 ball somewhere next year but for the sit-a-year transfer rule. Seriouly, Rolla is a great school but Adam could be easily playing for a school like SEMO or UMKC.

I do think Roy's gone overboard in his criticism of Majerus occasionaly but he's got a point here....

[brianstl]

i am delusional then i guess. and even more so, i just dont see this as an appropriate reaction considering the time and effort that they gave saint louis university. while i am sure they are happy that things are working out, still i am also sure the whole fiasco has been embarrassing enough for them. they didnt deserve the shot. why cant we just let them alone. let them fade away into billiken past.

How is it embarrassing to be a D-2 athlete? Most of this board would love to have that kind of basketball talent. Just because you seem to think there is something wrong with being a D-2 player doesn't mean it is the case.

[Archy McNally]

Roy, what was nasty about any of this? The kids are D-2 ball players and that isn't a taking a shot at somebody. The previous coach left this program in a very bad spot roster talent wise. Those are the facts. To act like they aren't is just being delusional.

I would argue that Adam Knollmeyer is more than a D-2 ball player but instead of transferring to an out-of-state school decided to go to a very good academic school fairly close to home. Just because they are going to D-2 does not mean he wouldn't have started for 1 of the 300 D1 schools in the country, probably eventually started for many mid-majors. Similar situation to Washington U, which attracts D-2 athetes to D-3 because of their reputation as one of the best schools in the country.

Heck, many on the board still wish Adam was here after Harrelson decided to attend Kentucky.

However, I am not trying to defend Brad's decisions on recruiting - they were abysmal.

[davidnark]

What's with all the self-righteousness? Nobody has criticized Adam or Dustin. In fact, I think pretty much everyone on this board has empathized with their circumstances and wishes them the best. That being said, my comments aren't exactly kicking them when they are down. They know they are going to D2 schools. Maybe they could have gone to another D1 school in different circumstances, maybe they couldn't have. We will never know, and it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is they are still going to get to continue their FREE college education and play the sport they presumably love. Even worse, they could have stayed at SLU and paid their own way like most of the posters on this baord. I FAIL TO SEE WHY ROY IS TREATING THE SITUATION LIKE THEY ARE FACING A TERMINAL ILLNESS OR LOST A LOVED ONE. The real issue I was trying to raise is the absurdity of Roy's proposition that Majerus and his "all-star coaching staff" should be able to magically create a sweet sixteen team by "coaching up" a group of by all accounts good kids who are now playing ball at a lower level.

If something I am saying is so inappropriate that it should be locked or deleted, then Steve or Thicks are free to do so. That's one reason we have multiple moderators. I have full respect for their judgment and would have no issues if they did. However, my status as a moderator does not restrict me from offering my opinions, even if other posters don't like what I have to say.

[billiken_roy]

I FAIL TO SEE WHY ROY IS TREATING THE SITUATION LIKE THEY ARE FACING A TERMINAL ILLNESS OR LOST A LOVED ONE. The real issue I was trying to raise is the absurdity of Roy's proposition that Majerus and his "all-star coaching staff" should be able to magically create a sweet sixteen team by "coaching up" a group of by all accounts good kids who are now playing ball at a lower level.

now you are lying again. where did i ever state that rickma could coach the existing players up to a sweet 16 team.

i indeed said that imo rickma should have as a coach taken the route of taking responsibility for the players and trying to coach them up. that is a far different statement than what you just lied about.

btw, nice you got in the shot about them again being at a lower level.

as to your above capped statement. i just believe (and obviously others as well) that a little decency towards these student athletes would have be more respectful than an offhanded insult as a result of your ill attempt at sarcastically attacking me.

[davidnark]

now you are lying again. where did i ever state that rickma could coach the existing players up to a sweet 16 team.

You have repeatedly stated that Rick should win with the players he was given. The expecation we all have for the program is top 25 and sweet 16, which is what we have watched the other higher mid-major programs achieve. It is therefore not a lie; it is a logical inference.

btw, nice you got in the shot about them again being at a lower level.

it is a FACT that D2 is a lower level than D1. I am sorry you view a statement of the facts as a shot.

[TheBand]

Has anyone been able to confirm the transfer?

[brianstl]

You have repeatedly stated that Rick should win with the players he was given. The expecation we all have for the program is top 25 and sweet 16, which is what we have watched the other higher mid-major programs achieve. It is therefore not a lie; it is a logical inference.

it is a FACT that D2 is a lower level than D1. I am sorry you view a statement of the facts as a shot.

These events put BS in a bad light and that is the reason Roy has a problem with you stating exactly what has occurred. It has nothing to do with taking a shot at the players, because nobody has. Nark.......You, me and others can see what is driving Roy on this issue, but Roy won't admit it to himself. If he admitted it, it wouldn't allow Roy to act self righteous in his attempts to defend Brad.

[Billiken Rich]

What's with all the self-righteousness? Nobody has criticized Adam or Dustin. In fact, I think pretty much everyone on this board has empathized with their circumstances and wishes them the best. That being said, my comments aren't exactly kicking them when they are down. They know they are going to D2 schools. Maybe they could have gone to another D1 school in different circumstances, maybe they couldn't have. We will never know, and it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is they are still going to get to continue their FREE college education and play the sport they presumably love. Even worse, they could have stayed at SLU and paid their own way like most of the posters on this baord. I FAIL TO SEE WHY ROY IS TREATING THE SITUATION LIKE THEY ARE FACING A TERMINAL ILLNESS OR LOST A LOVED ONE. The real issue I was trying to raise is the absurdity of Roy's proposition that Majerus and his "all-star coaching staff" should be able to magically create a sweet sixteen team by "coaching up" a group of by all accounts good kids who are now playing ball at a lower level.

If something I am saying is so inappropriate that it should be locked or deleted, then Steve or Thicks are free to do so. That's one reason we have multiple moderators. I have full respect for their judgment and would have no issues if they did. However, my status as a moderator does not restrict me from offering my opinions, even if other posters don't like what I have to say.

What you are saying is NOT inappropriate in any way. It is however part of the growing evidence you might be a bigger jerk than I thought you were capable of being. If you can't see your posts as "knocking the kids" I don't know that there is anything we can do to help you.

[Billiken Rich]

These events put BS in a bad light and that is the reason Roy has a problem with you stating exactly what has occurred. It has nothing to do with taking a shot at the players, because nobody has. Nark.......You, me and others can see what is driving Roy on this issue, but Roy won't admit it to himself. If he admitted it, it wouldn't allow Roy to act self righteous in his attempts to defend Brad.

Brad's recruiting was horrific but I stand by my earlier comments that Adam and Dustin deserve better treatment than they've gotten and are D1 athletes. Given Nark's throwing facts around like--"they went to D2 schools so they are D2 athletes." Well the fact is that they were recruited first to a D1 team! So they are D1 athletes! So there! HA!

Again this dicussion is proof that Nark et. al. can't get past or over the Soderberg era. If I never hear or say the man's name again I'll be a happy man. Give it up guys.

[Clock_Tower]

Brad's recruiting was horrific but I stand by my earlier comments that Adam and Dustin deserve better treatment than they've gotten and are D1 athletes. Given Nark's throwing facts around like--"they went to D2 schools so they are D2 athletes." Well the fact is that they were recruited first to a D1 team! So they are D1 athletes! So there! HA!

Again this dicussion is proof that Nark et. al. can't get past or over the Soderberg era. If I never hear or say the man's name again I'll be a happy man. Give it up guys.

Names and labels can be demeaning and provoke emotions. How can anyone be surprised? Case in point. This Board went crazy when the TX recruiting guy (who had interviewed JH) came on this Board and called SLU a "mid-major" program. Demeaning, arrogant, condescending... were some of the nicer things he was called by this Board. Now, when our former guys are called "D2 athletes" some wonder what could possible be demeaning, condescending etc. about such a label?? Does not make sense to me. Sounds like a simple apology would have been better than numerous justifications.

[davidnark]

Given Nark's throwing facts around like--"they went to D2 schools so they are D2 athletes."

Interesting quote, but I don't think it is attributable to me. I have not insulted these players in any way. The ony person I have been a "jerk" to is Roy, and for that I will apologize.

[brianstl]

Would somebody please tell me how saying someone is a D-2 level ball player is taking a shot at a player? I don't see how saying someone is better than 97% of all players to ever play high school basketball is a shot.

If I say Tommie isn't the next Jordan is that taking a shot at him?

[William Iken]

Would somebody please tell me how saying someone is a D-2 level ball player is taking a shot at a player? I don't see how saying someone is better than 97% of all players to ever play high school basketball is a shot.

If I say Tommie isn't the next Jordan is that taking a shot at him?

My question is why everyone can say that BS didn't recruit well (can't evaluate talent, missed on most recruits, didn't recruit DI talent, and whatever else has been said on this board over the months and years -- and even today in response to the question from the FAU supporter) but can't actually name the recruits?

I understand we don't need or want to belittle the young men who are leaving program but some of the objections in this thread may be going too far (imo).

[Billiken Rich]

Interesting quote, but I don't think it is attributable to me. I have not insulted these players in any way. The ony person I have been a "jerk" to is Roy, and for that I will apologize.

It was not a direct quote and shouldn't have had quotation marks. My apologies as well.

[Pistol]

My question is why everyone can say that BS didn't recruit well (can't evaluate talent, missed on most recruits, didn't recruit DI talent, and whatever else has been said on this board over the months and years -- and even today in response to the question from the FAU supporter) but can't actually name the recruits?

I understand we don't need or want to belittle the young men who are leaving program but some of the objections in this thread may be going too far (imo).

The consensus on here for a long time is that Brad wasn't a great recruiter. Are you asking for the names of the recruits he signed and didn't pan out or the recruits he went after and didn't sign?

[Billiken Rich]

Would somebody please tell me how saying someone is a D-2 level ball player is taking a shot at a player? I don't see how saying someone is better than 97% of all players to ever play high school basketball is a shot.

If I say Tommie isn't the next Jordan is that taking a shot at him?

It's all in the context isn't it. Jordan was the best ever. All D1 athletes takes in some real stiffs......certainly lower level players than these. Anyone remember Larry Simmons and Ryan Leuchtefeld for christ's sake????

[William Iken]

The consensus on here for a long time is that Brad wasn't a great recruiter. Are you asking for the names of the recruits he signed and didn't pan out or the recruits he went after and didn't sign?

Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer - by "can't name the players", I was reacting to the comments in this thread. What I mean is why is it okay to trash BS for his recruiting skills (and for recruiting what some would deem sub-par talent) but not okay to name the players (i.e. DM and AK, in this thread).

So it seems like this board finds it okay for someone to say 'BS recruited poorly' but not 'BS recruited poorly, and examples of poor recruits are player x, player y, and player z'.

[brianstl]

It's all in the context isn't it. Jordan was the best ever. All D1 athletes takes in some real stiffs......certainly lower level players than these. Anyone remember Larry Simmons and Ryan Leuchtefeld for christ's sake????

Both those guys accomplished more than either Dustin or Adam. Ryan started every game his JR and Sr year and averaged over nine ppg. He was the second leading scorer on the Hughes NCAA team.

[Pistol]

Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer - by "can't name the players", I was reacting to the comments in this thread. What I mean is why is it okay to trash BS for his recruiting skills (and for recruiting what some would deem sub-par talent) but not okay to name the players (i.e. DM and AK, in this thread).

So it seems like this board finds it okay for someone to say 'BS recruited poorly' but not 'BS recruited poorly, and examples of poor recruits are player x, player y, and player z'.

Gotcha. I haven't been in on this discussion, but I assure you I would have backed up my arguments using examples of players that Brad reached on unnecessarily, such as Justin Johnson, Horace Dixon, or Dustin McGuire, and examples of players that Brad missed on whether he tried or not, such as Josh Harrellson, Matt Shaw, or Lance Stemler. I agree that arguments are better when backed up, but I also understand that on this board, stating that Brad was a poor recruiter has pretty much become unanimously accepted as a fact rather than an opinion.

[Billiken Rich]

Both those guys accomplished more than either Dustin or Adam. Ryan started every game his JR and Sr year and averaged over nine ppg. He was the second leading scorer on the Hughes NCAA team.

We'll never know what Adam could've accomplished here, or Dustin. Both would've looked a great deal better on a Hughes lead team. I'd rather have Adam back than Ryan at this point.

[3star_recruit]

Both those guys accomplished more than either Dustin or Adam. Ryan started every game his JR and Sr year and averaged over nine ppg. He was the second leading scorer on the Hughes NCAA team.

True. And Larry Simmon's first two years were very similar to Adam's. It's funny how benchwarmers at SLU have shown an uncanny knack for playing at a higher level as upperclassmen.

[brianstl]

We'll never know what Adam could've accomplished here, or Dustin. Both would've looked a great deal better on a Hughes lead team. I'd rather have Adam back than Ryan at this point.

The fact that Ryan averaged over nine points after Larry left proves that he had a little ability on his own. Dustin and Adam struggled to get minutes on mediocre teams. Ryan was starting 23 games his sophomore year.

Yeah, Nark and I are the ones taking shots at players.

[brianstl]

True. And Larry Simmon's first two years were very similar to Adam's. It's funny how benchwarmers at SLU have shown an uncanny knack for playing at a higher level as upperclassmen.

Larry Simmons played in 30 games on an NCAA team in a much stronger conference as a sophomore. AK got in 22 on an average at best team in a weaker conference.