Adam Knollmeyer to Missouri S and T

[brianstl]

Larry Simmons played in 30 games on an NCAA team in a much stronger conference as a sophomore. AK got in 22 on an average at best team in a weaker conference.

Simmons also averaged twice as many minutes a game as Adam did.

[TheChosenOne]

Since this thread has turned into honest assessments I will give mine:

I think Adam has some ability and could have been a serviceable big for us off of the bench. I saw him in practice a few times and thought he had the potential to provide some quality minutes in a back-up type roll and maybe develop into more than that, but when he got into game situations he looked nervous and tight in my opinion.

As far as Dustin, he should have never been offered and was in over his head from day #1. He did not have the ability to play for our program. I recall hearing that none of the assistants wanted to offer Dustin, but Soderberg decided to go against his assistants and offered him. That was definitely a mistake.

I wish both of these guys well as they will now be in situations where they will have more of an opportunity to contribute.

[Billiken Rich]

Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer - by "can't name the players", I was reacting to the comments in this thread. What I mean is why is it okay to trash BS for his recruiting skills (and for recruiting what some would deem sub-par talent) but not okay to name the players (i.e. DM and AK, in this thread).

So it seems like this board finds it okay for someone to say 'BS recruited poorly' but not 'BS recruited poorly, and examples of poor recruits are player x, player y, and player z'.

My beef is not in calling out Brad for recruiting or even calling out the players for their foibles. Saying, in effect, that our team was populated by several recruits not fit to play Division 1 ball is excessive. You don't have to go down to Savannah State to find teams that would love to have Adam and Dustin. This is silly.

[3star_recruit]

Simmons also averaged twice as many minutes a game as Adam did.

And his production in those minutes is roughly equivalent to what Adam did with his minutes. How many minutes would a player like Simmons have gotten under Majerus? Who can say?

[Billiken Rich]

Simmons also averaged twice as many minutes a game as Adam did.

I'd rather have Adam back than Larry as well.

[brianstl]

And his production in those minutes is roughly equivalent to what Adam did with his minutes. How many minutes would a player like Simmons have gotten under Majerus? Who can say?

Simmons at least had some idea how to pass the ball out of the block, so I think he would have got more minutes than AK did under Rickma. The fact that AK didn't even accidently get more than one assist all season is the reason he was never going to advance in the Majerus system. Even for a big man a 1/11 a/t ratio is not going to fly. Simmons as a sophomore had a 1/2. Simmons wasn't even close to being a good D-1 player, but he was better as a sophomore than AK.

[kevinfootes]

I think it was meant to be a good natured stab at Roy.

Maybe David could figure out a way to take a stab at roy without taking shots at players...

[kevinfootes]

all i am saying is that david had no business dragging that aspect into the thread. i think it is pretty draconian to be defending davidnark on this issue. if i was the moderator, i would delete the contents of this thread except those that are solely congrats to the student athletes of concern. oh that's right, david's the moderator.

roy, I don't think there's anything here that warrants deleting the thread. That said, the david of the past 18-24 months isn't the same guy who we all "knew" several years ago.

[davidnark]

That said, the david of the past 18-24 months isn't the same guy who we all "knew" several years ago.

That's a curious statement. The David from years' past candidily criticized the Deiner phenomenon at SLU, and consistently complained ranted about our prior coach. Ironically, the David of the last year or so routinely finds himself defending the coach and program. Whether taking a subtle shot at Roy was appropriate is worthy of debate, but this idea that I criticized these players is just downright incorrect. Roy has been repeatedly taking cheap shots at our coach for not "coaching up" players. (In fact, for nearly a month, Roy has been ripping Majerus and his program to everyone who would lend an ear or a message board, which frankly angers me and a lot of other supporters of the program.) These two recruits, for whatever personal reasons, have decided to pursue D2 careers. I think it is fair, and not an insult to the players, to point out the unreasonableness of expecting Majerus to take players who have now made a decision to pursue a D2 career and magically coach them into high D1 stars.

[kevinfootes]

That's a curious statement. The David from years' past candidily criticized the Deiner phenomenon at SLU, and consistently complained ranted about our prior coach. Ironically, the David of the last year or so routinely finds himself defending the coach and program. Whether taking a subtle shot at Roy was appropriate is worthy of debate, but this idea that I criticized these players is just downright incorrect. Roy has been repeatedly taking cheap shots at our coach for not "coaching up" players. (In fact, for nearly a month, Roy has been ripping Majerus and his program to everyone who would lend an ear or a message board, which frankly angers me and a lot of other supporters of the program.) These two recruits, for whatever personal reasons, have decided to pursue D2 careers. I think it is fair, and not an insult to the players, to point out the unreasonableness of expecting Majerus to take players who have now made a decision to pursue a D2 career and magically coach them into high D1 stars.

I've had occasion to criticize RM at various points, but I've never made a crazy statement like I wouldn't recommend SLU to ANY players like roy did. However, your trashing of the players is just as bad as what roy has done. Perhaps you could take your "debte" with roy to PMs.

[davidnark]

However, your trashing of the players is just as bad as what roy has done.

Please find one sentence I wrote in the past year that trashes any player.

[billiken_roy]

Please find one sentence I wrote in the past year that trashes any player.

"Judging from their D2 destinations, it would probably have been difficult to "coach up" these kids into the top 25 D1 success"

[ACE]

"Judging from their D2 destinations, it would probably have been difficult to "coach up" these kids into the top 25 D1 success"

This is ridiculous. What Nark said is not "trashing" the kids. He was taking a shot at the unrealistic expectations Roy set for Majerus in "coaching up" the roster last year. Roy has taken shots at Ian in the past that were far worse than what Nark said about AK and DM. Nark wasn't questioning their character, just their ability, which is certainly fair.

Whether you want to call them "D2" players or whatever is really not important. The point is, that these kids are not good enough to play in the A10. If you want to be picky about it, I'm sure these two could play for another D1 school somewhere, but it would be a low level D1. They are moving on now to a level they are better suited for. In fact, out of the 4 that are transferring, the only one I expected to move on to another D1 was Relphorde. It speaks to the poor recruiting that folks like Nark and myself had been talking about in recent years. I'm not sure why this is even still a debate.

[AlumniFan]

At least Skip gets my sarcasm.

I thought we were only allowed to use sarcasm when it was clearly announced and labeled...?

Once again, the Jr. Bills have one standard and the Spartans have another....

[davidnark]

I thought we were only allowed to use sarcasm when it was clearly announced and labeled...?

Once again, the Jr. Bills have one standard and the Spartans have another....

Don't open the Spartans / Jr. Bills debate. The "trashing" will be readily apparent from the get go. (Plus, I think you are outnumbered in this forum.)

[SS601]

This is ridiculous. What Nark said is not "trashing" the kids. He was taking a shot at the unrealistic expectations Roy set for Majerus in "coaching up" the roster last year. Roy has taken shots at Ian in the past that were far worse than what Nark said about AK and DM. Nark wasn't questioning their character, just their ability, which is certainly fair.

Whether you want to call them "D2" players or whatever is really not important. The point is, that these kids are not good enough to play in the A10. If you want to be picky about it, I'm sure these two could play for another D1 school somewhere, but it would be a low level D1. They are moving on now to a level they are better suited for. In fact, out of the 4 that are transferring, the only one I expected to move on to another D1 was Relphorde. It speaks to the poor recruiting that folks like Nark and myself had been talking about in recent years. I'm not sure why this is even still a debate.

Ace,

GREAT post!

[sonsforever2008]

Good luck, Adam!

[kevinfootes]

This is ridiculous. What Nark said is not "trashing" the kids. He was taking a shot at the unrealistic expectations Roy set for Majerus in "coaching up" the roster last year. Roy has taken shots at Ian in the past that were far worse than what Nark said about AK and DM. Nark wasn't questioning their character, just their ability, which is certainly fair.

Whether you want to call them "D2" players or whatever is really not important. The point is, that these kids are not good enough to play in the A10. If you want to be picky about it, I'm sure these two could play for another D1 school somewhere, but it would be a low level D1. They are moving on now to a level they are better suited for. In fact, out of the 4 that are transferring, the only one I expected to move on to another D1 was Relphorde. It speaks to the poor recruiting that folks like Nark and myself had been talking about in recent years. I'm not sure why this is even still a debate.

While it's true that roy took worse shots at Ian, the point of Nark's thread was to take a shot at roy. It would be easy enough to do that without trashing players. What's the point of calling out former players at all? It's really just a case of David trying to thump his chest and do a touchdown dance.

[Billiken Rich]

It's really just a case of David trying to thump his chest and do a touchdown dance.

I really never agree with you Flaming Footes Trollsund but me thinks that blind squirrel just found his nut.....

[davidnark]

I really never agree with you Flaming Footes Trollsund but me thinks that blind squirrel just found his nut.....

Yes, you both are correct, I celebrated in the streets when I found out these kids were going to D2 schools. In fact, I couldn't sleep at night because I was worried that they might end up at a top basketball school, thereby refuting my position that it was unreasonably to expect Majerus to "coach up" the players. I have voodoo dolls at home that are caricatures of D Mac and AK.

You both don't get it. I have never wished ill-will on these two players, and I hope they have extraordinary success in both basketball and their careers. I think they are both innocent victims of a difficult situation. This argument has always been about whether it is reasonable to ask a head coach to win big and win fast, while also expecting him to "coach up" the prior regime's players that--for whatever reasons--don't fit the skill set the coach requires. I also think there is an underlying issue of certain so-called fans wanting to be "big time" while retaining an affinity for small-time practices.

[billiken_roy]

Yes, you both are correct, I celebrated in the streets when I found out these kids were going to D2 schools. In fact, I couldn't sleep at night because I was worried that they might end up at a top basketball school, thereby refuting my position that it was unreasonably to expect Majerus to "coach up" the players. I have voodoo dolls at home that are caricatures of D Mac and AK.

You both don't get it. I have never wished ill-will on these two players, and I hope they have extraordinary success in both basketball and their careers. I think they are both innocent victims of a difficult situation. This argument has always been about whether it is reasonable to ask a head coach to win big and win fast, while also expecting him to "coach up" the prior regime's players that--for whatever reasons--don't fit the skill set the coach requires. I also think there is an underlying issue of certain so-called fans wanting to be "big time" while retaining an affinity for small-time practices.

or to summarize, still no remorse for his slap out the ousted players.

[brianstl]

or to summarize, still no remorse for his slap out the ousted players.

Not to defend David (he can do that himself), but how is saying somebody is a D-2 player a slap?

[davidnark]

or to summarize, still no remorse for his slap out the ousted players.

How hypocritical can you be? You repeatedly call Ian lazy. For years, you trashed Tom Timmerman. You take uncalled for cheap shots at Nate at every turn. You belittle every MU fan and graduate. You publish conspiracy theories against Mike Smith and the PD. You have publicly attacked most of the AD's office. You trash Majerus to everyone who will lend an ear. I could go on and on. And yet, you find issue with my fact-based comments regarding two former players, one of whom you formerly claimed was not worthy of a scholarship offer from SLU.

[billiken_roy]

How hypocritical can you be? You repeatedly call Ian lazy. For years, you trashed Tom Timmerman. You take uncalled for cheap shots at Nate at every turn. You belittle every MU fan and graduate. You publish conspiracy theories against Mike Smith and the PD. You have publicly attacked most of the AD's office. You trash Majerus to everyone who will lend an ear. I could go on and on. And yet, you find issue with my fact-based comments regarding two former players, one of whom you formerly claimed was not worthy of a scholarship offer from SLU.

the difference is timing. i dont think you needed to hit those kids at that particular time in their lives. they are gone. no need to continue to pile on especially when the deal they got was really horrible and undeserved.

i dont call that hypocritical. i call that being decent and civil in a particularly difficult time in these kids lives.

i could defend a lot of your b.s. you wrote above, but that shouldnt be the distraction. but you keep on attacking these kids david. if that makes you feel better great.

[brianstl]

the difference is timing. i dont think you needed to hit those kids at that particular time in their lives. they are gone. no need to continue to pile on especially when the deal they got was really horrible and undeserved.

i dont call that hypocritical. i call that being decent and civil in a particularly difficult time in these kids lives.

i could defend a lot of your b.s. you wrote above, but that shouldnt be the distraction. but you keep on attacking these kids david. if that makes you feel better great.

What happened that was horrible and undeserved?

They are both still going to college for free.