billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Bernie's comment on his forum on stltoday.com in response to the "Harrellson close to committing story": "I wonder if the young man has taken the time to figure out that Gillespie will be recruiting over him. God bless him. -B" http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=534531 not that rickma has ever done that right? just ask the four kids that have no school right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 not that rickma has ever done that right? just ask the four kids that have no school right now. He didn't recruit those kids. I doubt any of them would have ever even been looked at by Majerus. MAYBE Anthony Mitchell, if only for the work ethic and Majerus' sense of philanthropy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 He didn't recruit those kids. I doubt any of them would have ever even been looked at by Majerus. MAYBE Anthony Mitchell, if only for the work ethic and Majerus' sense of philanthropy. still the fact remains, he recruited over them and sent them on their way instead of trying to coach them up. dont act like the act is something that would never happen to him at slu but will at kentucky when the truth is we just did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 still the fact remains, he recruited over them and sent them on their way instead of trying to coach them up. dont act like the act is something that would never happen to him at slu but will at kentucky when the truth is we just did it.C'mon, B'Roy. Did you really want to go to games to see those 4 sitting on the bench while we played a 6 man rotation and lose 15+ games next year? I'm sure if RM saw something to "coach up" he would have tried. Hell, he played AK more than UB did. It's done. Fini. Over. Let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 still the fact remains, he recruited over them and sent them on their way instead of trying to coach them up. dont act like the act is something that would never happen to him at slu but will at kentucky when the truth is we just did it. Look at it this way, I guess. Majerus will TRY to recruit over you. Gillispie WILL recruit over you. Kentucky is la creme de la creme as far as NCAA D1 basketball goes. Gillispie wakes up with 5-star players under his pillow. SLU is trying to get there. SLU's a better fit, and also saves Harrellson a lot of questioning regarding the location issue. It's been discussed before that no coach should insinuate that a player is a guaranteed starter or even big minute player for their entire tenure at a school. Any coach who's not trying to get better players every year is a bum coach. But at the level Josh is competing at, and the level that SLU and Kentucky are competing at, we're a better match. Although he has made it blatantly clear that he wants to GO BIG. So we'll see. My money's WAY on SLU at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 C'mon, B'Roy. Did you really want to go to games to see those 4 sitting on the bench while we played a 6 man rotation and lose 15+ games next year? I'm sure if RM saw something to "coach up" he would have tried. Hell, he played AK more than UB did. It's done. Fini. Over. Let's move on. slu72, all i am saying is dont act all high and mighty as a fan or the billiken program and point out what might happen at another program for a potential recruit when the truth is we have done it 4x in one year and history tells us that rickma does it all the time and will likely continue to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Look at it this way, I guess. Majerus will TRY to recruit over you. Gillispie WILL recruit over you. Kentucky is la creme de la creme as far as NCAA D1 basketball goes. Gillispie wakes up with 5-star players under his pillow. SLU is trying to get there. SLU's a better fit, and also saves Harrellson a lot of questioning regarding the location issue. It's been discussed before that no coach should insinuate that a player is a guaranteed starter or even big minute player for their entire tenure at a school. Any coach who's not trying to get better players every year is a bum coach. But at the level Josh is competing at, and the level that SLU and Kentucky are competing at, we're a better match. Although he has made it blatantly clear that he wants to GO BIG. So we'll see. My money's WAY on SLU at this point. so jimbo if i was a recruit and rickma came back with that argument i would conclude that slu wont be as good of a team as kentucky. my point is that this issue is not a recruiting point for us to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 still the fact remains, he recruited over them and sent them on their way instead of trying to coach them up. dont act like the act is something that would never happen to him at slu but will at kentucky when the truth is we just did it. Roy, I agree that players have now been recruited over at SLU, but so what. That's a good thing! I wish we had recruited over players in the past. I wish we had recruited over Dwayne Polk and Bryce Husak as examples. These starting jobs are not entitlements. They have to be earned. Heck, if the coaching staff could recruit over Kevin, Tommie or anybody in order to improve the team, I am all for it. This programs is FINALLY heading in a direction where there will be some real competition for playing time. If we get Harrelson, I hope that he will be forced to really push himself because he knows that guys like Thompson, Reed and Conlin are all capable of taking playing time away. That's how you build a good program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Look at it this way, I guess. Majerus will TRY to recruit over you. Gillispie WILL recruit over you. And so will Majerus. There was a revolving door of recruits at Utah. The only difference is between the two is there will be a higher number of stars next to the names of the Gillispie recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 still the fact remains, he recruited over them and sent them on their way instead of trying to coach them up. dont act like the act is something that would never happen to him at slu but will at kentucky when the truth is we just did it. Roy, let's do it your way, keep the guys who need to be coached up, have a 500 record and have a half empty building. Sounds like fun... Just think of all those warm fuzzy memories of watching a guy like AK developing into some one who can score 5 or 6 points a game by the time he is a senior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 so jimbo if i was a recruit and rickma came back with that argument i would conclude that slu wont be as good of a team as kentucky. my point is that this issue is not a recruiting point for us to use. Depends on what Harrellson's prerogative is. If he wants to go BIG TIME as an individual (which I believe to be the case), then choose SLU. If he wants to go BIG TIME as a part of a program, go for Kentucky. He simply has to conclude which is more important to him. I think he has to admit that he's not a marquee player, the type that the big schools always fawn over, but simply a drastically improved, very good JUCO player who would happen to fill a VERY temporary need at a major school. Anywhere he goes is going to be dreamland for him, but I don't think anyone could look him in the eye and tell him that he will finish with more minutes at Kentucky than at SLU. Just the same as noone could tell him that he'll see more Final Fours at SLU than at Kentucky. But we're closing the gap, and he can have it both ways (or close to it) by his senior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 "Recruiting over" is a myth. If you disagree, you are essentially saying that D1 coaches often decide to not recruit someone who they feel would better their team. Gee, I sure hope I can root for a team who's coach "recruits under" his current talent level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Roy, let's do it your way, keep the guys who need to be coached up, have a 500 record and have a half empty building. Sounds like fun... Just think of all those warm fuzzy memories of watching a guy like AK developing into some one who can score 5 or 6 points a game by the time he is a senior. we shall see if we have a 30-3 record the next two seasons now that knollmeyer is gone. my point is you live with the program choices. if it takes three more years to wash out a player, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I understand Nate and Bernie not going into detail about Harrelson's family matter--but how can he justify going to Lexington and not Macomb (besides the obvious!). Nate--knowing what you know, would him choosing KY come off hypocritical? I realize he has the right to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The only difference is between the two is there will be a higher number of stars next to the names of the Gillispie recruits. Exactly. Therefore, the chance of getting recruited over at SLU is less. I don't think anyone is being high and mighty about the "recruiting over" issue. It happens at every school; it will continue to happen. However, the fact that we've had about 2 decent to really good bangers down low in the last 10 years should tell you that SLU has had a difficult time recruiting over this position. It doesn't eliminate the possibility under RM, but it is less likely to happen at SLU. And I only made the Bernie post to insert his thoughts on this situation. Roy, do you really think these players could have been coached up? In your profession, should professionals continue to get a free pass when they are unable to produce? You act like these are helpless 5 year olds. They're not. Further, why won't you blame Brad for any of this? He's the one that placed some of them in a position where they wouldn't succeed. Yet Brad gets a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 "Recruiting over" is a myth. If you disagree, you are essentially saying that D1 coaches often decide to not recruit someone who they feel would better their team. Gee, I sure hope I can root for a team who's coach "recruits under" his current talent level! oc there is a huge difference between filling your available spots and filling your available spots and then creating four more after you cut four players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 oc there is a huge difference between filling your available spots and filling your available spots and then creating four more after you cut four players. I do agree on the difference between the two. The fact that RM didn't recruit these guys carries weight in my mind. The "recruiting over" thing is strange to me. It's like, if Michael Beasley wanted to come to SLU, we'd have had to have said "sorry Beaz, we'd love to have you but it wouldn't be fair bump ole' Luke from the starting five." Head coaches don't keep their jobs because they were loyal enough to 'recruit under'. (I would say something urban like "don't hate the player, hate the game" but I don't want to prolong V-Time's self-imposed ban) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Remember folks, if we had stayed the course, our upperclassman after TL, KL and BE graduated would consist of AM, MR, AK and DM. Staying the course and "coaching up" would have required a LOT of patience, the type of patience that BRoy did not demonstrate just a few weeks into this past season... it's why he has no credibility on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I do agree on the difference between the two. The fact that RM didn't recruit these guys carries weight in my mind. The "recruiting over" thing is strange to me. It's like, if Michael Beasley wanted to come to SLU, we'd have had to have said "sorry Beaz, we'd love to have you but it wouldn't be fair bump ole' Luke from the starting five." Head coaches don't keep their jobs because they were loyal enough to 'recruit under'. (I would say something urban like "don't hate the player, hate the game" but I don't want to prolong V-Time's self-imposed ban) i'm all for "bumping luke from the starting five". i bet luke would be ok with yeilding his starting spot to michael beasley. THAT IS RECRUITING OVER ACCEPTABLE. what is not right is cutting a player for someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Remember folks, if we had stayed the course, our upperclassman after TL, KL and BE graduated would consist of AM, MR, AK and DM. Staying the course and "coaching up" would have required a LOT of patience, the type of patience that BRoy did not demonstrate just a few weeks into this past season... it's why he has no credibility on this issue. my impatience in november december had everything to do with misusing players, nothing to do with coaching up. if rickma did any coaching up this past season, please example it for us. most of what we saw was pretty puzzling utilization of players imo. probably the closest thing was bryce who did seem to maximize his potential. and it was refreshing to finally see him adjust to the players abilities, styles and talents after xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 my impatience in november december had everything to do with misusing players, nothing to do with coaching up. if rickma did any coaching up this past season, please example it for us. most of what we saw was pretty puzzling utilization of players imo. probably the closest thing was bryce who did seem to maximize his potential. and it was refreshing to finally see him adjust to the players abilities, styles and talents after xmas. I'm puzzled why you see the progression in the team's development as RM finally adjusting as opposed to some mix of RM adjusting and the players adjusting. Honestly, how often is it the case that a team adjusts under a new coach because the coach finally adjusted to his/her players? I've gotta think it's more often the case that the players adjust. Maybe the fact that KL looked to be playing better later in the year is that he finally learned how to play within RM's system. Maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 my impatience in november december had everything to do with misusing players, nothing to do with coaching up. if rickma did any coaching up this past season, please example it for us. most of what we saw was pretty puzzling utilization of players imo. probably the closest thing was bryce who did seem to maximize his potential. and it was refreshing to finally see him adjust to the players abilities, styles and talents after xmas. So now you're an xs and os expert? You knew more about how to coach this exteremely flawed roster more than RM? You don't think he "coached up" Danny Brown? Is there a coach out there who could have gotten this team to the postseason? You criticized RM's xs and os more in one month than you did Sodie during his entire tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 So now you're an xs and os expert? You knew more about how to coach this exteremely flawed roster more than RM? You don't think he "coached up" Danny Brown? Is there a coach out there who could have gotten this team to the postseason? You criticized RM's xs and os more in one month than you did Sodie during his entire tenure. Its nice to see Roy hijacked the thread on Bernies forum regarding this subject too. Just what we need, the most tireless billken related poster going around at every opportunity and ripping on our coach for things that happened weeks ago. Its almost like he doesn't want Harrellson to come, so that he can say "told you so" to the one or two posters on this board that said we'd get him last winter. Never mind that its his heroes fault he's not already the starting PF for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Its nice to see Roy hijacked the thread on Bernies forum regarding this subject too. Just what we need, the most tireless billken related poster going around at every opportunity and ripping on our coach for things that happened weeks ago. Its almost like he doesn't want Harrellson to come, so that he can say "told you so" to the one or two posters on this board that said we'd get him last winter. Never mind that its his heroes fault he's not already the starting PF for SLU. I agree, I saw the garbage that he posted on Bernies forum also. Roy, I know you are one of the biggest billiken fans out there but lately you have been going out of your way to bash not only the coach but the program and im just really surprised to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I agree, I saw the garbage that he posted on Bernies forum also. Roy, I know you are one of the biggest billiken fans out there but lately you have been going out of your way to bash not only the coach but the program and im just really surprised to see that. It has become clear that Roy has more devotion to his beloved Brad than the Bills. It is really sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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