The mass exodus has begun

[ACE]

The problem with both sides of the argument in this situation is that there are too many assumptions. Some assume that Majerus is running off players and some assume the players leaving don't want to leave.

1. we don't know who is leaving if anyone (perhaps a recruit doesn't qualify etc)

2. maybe if players are leaving it is their choice or mutual

We just don't know at this point.

This is an outstanding point. If/when these players leave, we don't know if they will leave kicking and screaming or they will welcome a new opportunity. Also, keep in mind in the case of AK and DM, BS didn't even play these kids when there was ample opportunity. He even chose a walk-on over DM in one game. If BS were still here, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that those two would still be transfer candidates.

[Clock_Tower]

Can you cite a few examples to back up this claim that he "clearly fumbled the ball"... I'm not sure it is clear to everybody.

In contrast, the Sodie critics have been able to cite a series of recruiting failures that can't be disputed.

Count me in as another who would like to know. I have posed general questions to this Board for 2 months for details as to RM's deficiencies this year. So far, have not hear anything other than "I thought a HOF coach would get more out of these guys...", "BH/BE are the same as IV..." and Roy's epiphany around the SIUC game.

Still waiting....

[Clock_Tower]

This is an outstanding point. If/when these players leave, we don't know if they will leave kicking and screaming or they will welcome a new opportunity. Also, keep in mind in the case of AK and DM, BS didn't even play these kids when there was ample opportunity. He even chose a walk-on over DM in one game. If BS were still here, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that those two would still be transfer candidates.

Still puzzled by DM. Can anyone provide any comparable example of a HC, who is in dire need of talent immediately, suggesting a player redshirt and then suggest he find another program. All of this following his committing with SLU nearly 2 years prior to his first game, his failure to get other college offers, comments by respected posters on this Board who had seen him in high school questioning his talent/defensive abilities, a curious transfer to another high school for his senior year, his playing center/forward during high school, followed then by his inability to get off the bench his first/only season, even with KL injured, and then taking a back seat to a walk-on playing ahead of him - with all of this done by the coach who recruited him.

Sorry. But some kids just cannot, and should not be, "coached up" for 3 years (1/2 of RM's contract) by our HOF coach.

[Clock_Tower]

This is an outstanding point. If/when these players leave, we don't know if they will leave kicking and screaming or they will welcome a new opportunity. Also, keep in mind in the case of AK and DM, BS didn't even play these kids when there was ample opportunity. He even chose a walk-on over DM in one game. If BS were still here, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that those two would still be transfer candidates.

Ace. While we don't know all answers yet, this is no longer just a rumor. Cotto and Cassity have verbally committed and we now have 15 guys for 13 spots. I doubt either Cotto or Cassity are providing conditional verbal committments based upon other recruits' ability, or lack thereof, to make grades/credits and pass the SAT. We have gone from still recruiting for "just in case" and/or "for back-up reasons" to offering and accepting verbal committments. This is a definite change from the rumor mill all season long as to speculation that RM would sign more guys and that guys would leave.

[slu72]

Ace. While we don't know all answers yet, this is no longer just a rumor. Cotto and Cassity have verbally committed and we now have 15 guys for 13 spots. I doubt either Cotto or Cassity are providing conditional verbal committments based upon other recruits' ability, or lack thereof, to make grades/credits and pass the SAT. We have gone from still recruiting for "just in case" and/or "for back-up reasons" to offering and accepting verbal committments. This is a definite change from the rumor mill all season long as to speculation that RM would sign more guys and that guys would leave.

I still don't think he's done recruiting for this year. You have to believe the A/C's are scouring the JUCO ranks for either an exp PG or a talented big. I agree with someone's claim/or suggestion that the BM article may well have been planted to get WIU to release Harrelson and then he signs with SLU. Contrary to what Broy thinks about SWIC's staff blowing off SLU. That may have been the case with UB here, but not RM.

[moytoy12]

note, as many have said, if the kids wanted to leave that is one thing. but if they were in anyway pushed out the door and end up playing at swic and then heading to siue or transferring to semo when what they really wanted was a marketing degree from saint louis university, no matter how you spray it, that is nasty. slu let those kids down.

SLU isn't letting any kid down in this respect, because as I understand, the kid could still be a SLU student. If they really want a SLU marketing degree, then they should find other means of financial aid (whether grants, academic scholarships or loans) like 98% of the rest of the student body. Is it so bad that they are treated like the other students?

[billiken_roy]

Roy. Your fears of what influence other coaches might have on recruits has proven to be none. See Cotto and Casssity.

If DM wants his marketing degree, I see no reason why SLU cannot kick him off the team, give him an academic scholarship for his remaining 2 years and let him be the star during intramurals. Would that satisfy your concerns?

first maguire. if dustin truly wants to be a student at slu, i think your solution is fantastic. considering slu cutting our cheerleading and dance squad to save money, i would be shocked if we can afford to make up academic scholarships for rickma cuts though.

as to your comments on cotto and cassity, how can opposing coaches use what hasnt happened yet against us? they can question where the scholarships are coming from but they cant emphatically say at this point in time, "slu cuts players all the time". my hope is that this is it. rickma gets rid of his self described step children and going forward we are playing with his kids. and this merry go round stops.

[billiken_roy]

if we were to play Davidson, can DM play the Stephen Curry role? Doubt it. As for comparing us to Zaga and the other school, all together different.

and comparing maguire to stephen curry is fair? hell north carolina doesnt have a guard to compare to stephen curry. what stephen curry has done for little ole davidson is akin to what larry bird did for indiana state. anyone want to bet that davidson will never approach the elite eight again after curry is done there? because i'll take that bet.

[Clock_Tower]

I still don't think he's done recruiting for this year. You have to believe the A/C's are scouring the JUCO ranks for either an exp PG or a talented big. I agree with someone's claim/or suggestion that the BM article may well have been planted to get WIU to release Harrelson and then he signs with SLU. Contrary to what Broy thinks about SWIC's staff blowing off SLU. That may have been the case with UB here, but not RM.

I believe you are correct. RM will not be forcing guys off the team to "save" open scholarships. Also, if we sign 1 or 2 JUCOs/transfers, then the recent signings of Cotto and Cassity (2 more highschoolers) would make more sense. Roy, I agree with your comment as to questioning the large incoming class of all freshmen (7) and no older/more experienced players. If KM is as good as advertised, then Cotto seems more like insurance to KM. If so, why not sign a freshman PG next year (instead of Cotto) and another 6'6" wing (Cassity) next year instead of this year. Also, if WR is questionable and AK MR are on their way out, then we are placing all our eggs in the BT and BC basket. Easier for a guard to make an impact as a freshmen than for a forward/center to make such an impact. We really still need an experienced big. Don't believe RM would push out both AK and MR without finding a more veteran/experienced big in the short term.

[brianstl]

and comparing maguire to stephen curry is fair? hell north carolina doesnt have a guard to compare to stephen curry. what stephen curry has done for little ole davidson is akin to what larry bird did for indiana state. anyone want to bet that davidson will never approach the elite eight again after curry is done there? because i'll take that bet.

Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington suck.

[ACE]

I believe you are correct. RM will not be forcing guys off the team to "save" open scholarships. Also, if we sign 1 or 2 JUCOs/transfers, then the recent signings of Cotto and Cassity (2 more highschoolers) would make more sense. Roy, I agree with your comment as to questioning the large incoming class of all freshmen (7) and no older/more experienced players. If KM is as good as advertised, then Cotto seems more like insurance to KM. If so, why not sign a freshman PG next year (instead of Cotto) and another 6'6" wing (Cassity) next year instead of this year. Also, if WR is questionable and AK MR are on their way out, then we are placing all our eggs in the BT and BC basket. Easier for a guard to make an impact as a freshmen than for a forward/center to make such an impact. We really still need an experienced big. Don't believe RM would push out both AK and MR without finding a more veteran/experienced big in the short term.

I would be disappointed if we do not land a juco big. Even if it is not Harrelson, I don't think we need a superstar (although that would certainly be nice). Just a serviceable big who can play some defense and grab some rebounds... a juco like Kenny Brown. We didn't have anybody close to that last year.

As for the 7 freshmen, I think there are several ways this can play out... Reed or Cotto or both could fail to qualify... maybe Reed would go to prep school. If all 7 qualify, then probably Reed and maybe Cassitty would be good redshirt candidates. It's nice to finally have some options.

[billiken_roy]

SLU isn't letting any kid down in this respect, because as I understand, the kid could still be a SLU student. If they really want a SLU marketing degree, then they should find other means of financial aid (whether grants, academic scholarships or loans) like 98% of the rest of the student body. Is it so bad that they are treated like the other students?

moytoy if we are to believe that each and every college student athlete is recruited and promised under the premise that they are only being promised one year hell or high water, i agree with you. do you think any college division one recruit is told that is the case during their recruitment? i dont. while that is the fact and all athletic scholarships are indeed one year commits, i believe there isnt a single division one coach that cautiously promises a kid that limited assurance. and these student athetes have outlined their lives and career paths accordingly. now because one coach doesnt like these kids they have to change their lives and likely not to a betterment. granted that is a lesson in life. but it sure wasnt what they were likley led to believe they were getting from saint louis university.

i believe we should be good to our word and live up to the promises we make even if it was a bad decision by soderberg. what will be interesting to see is how the fandom reacts if this merry-go-round continues after this year as well. imo, a "parting of the ways" is only acceptable if the player TOTALLY initiates it, or if that player has disgraced the university (think of the recent happenings at mi$$ouri as an example). if it is a matter the coaches have found a 17 year old that has a better jumpshot or is 40 lbs of muscle stronger so we have to create a roster spot, i think that is wrong.

[billiken_roy]

Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington suck.

i never said that. you did. i said stephen curry is better. big difference brian.

[Westy03]

moytoy if we are to believe that each and every college student athlete is recruited and promised under the premise that they are only being promised one year hell or high water, i agree with you. do you think any college division one recruit is told that is the case during their recruitment? i dont.

It is spelled out in the Letter OF Intent that they sign before they go to the school. Its their own fault if they dont read it.

[brianstl]

i never said that. you did. i said stephen curry is better. big difference brian.

Roy you said there is no one on UNC to compare to Curry. You can compare Lawson and Ellington to Curry. They are in the same league as players as Curry.

[slufanskip]

moytoy if we are to believe that each and every college student athlete is recruited and promised under the premise that they are only being promised one year hell or high water, i agree with you. do you think any college division one recruit is told that is the case during their recruitment? i dont. while that is the fact and all athletic scholarships are indeed one year commits, i believe there isnt a single division one coach that cautiously promises a kid that limited assurance. and these student athetes have outlined their lives and career paths accordingly. now because one coach doesnt like these kids they have to change their lives and likely not to a betterment. granted that is a lesson in life. but it sure wasnt what they were likley led to believe they were getting from saint louis university.

i believe we should be good to our word and live up to the promises we make even if it was a bad decision by soderberg. what will be interesting to see is how the fandom reacts if this merry-go-round continues after this year as well. imo, a "parting of the ways" is only acceptable if the player TOTALLY initiates it, or if that player has disgraced the university (think of the recent happenings at mi$$ouri as an example). if it is a matter the coaches have found a 17 year old that has a better jumpshot or is 40 lbs of muscle stronger so we have to create a roster spot, i think that is wrong.

I don't agree with the kid having to totally initiate it. If I'm a player and I'm not getting alot or any time, I would want my coach to lay it on the line for me. If reality is that I probably won't play much or at all and the coach thinks the best thing for me would be a transfer, I want to hear it. What I'd like at that time is for the coach to use his resources to help me find a school that would be a good fit both academically and where I would be good enough to play. Also if the school decided not to renew my scholarship and I had to sit a year ... I'd sue the f...k out of them, and I'd win. You can't decide I can't play here and then decide I can't play anywhere else either.

[cheeseman]

Roy. First, your feelings are well known on this topic. Second, I respect your basketball knowledge but statements, in this post and all season long, such as "why cant we coach up the kids we got ..." are just plain foolish. Have you not watched any of the NCAA Tournament? Even the lesser seeds have talented players, particularly "big men." Soon this will Board will not go wild over things like DB's dunk 4 weeks ago. Such plays are routine for the top 64 teams. Sure, some "big men" who played in the NCAA Tourney are more talented than others but I have not watched anyone of AK's ability, or lack thereof. Same with DM and AM. If this was an isolated comment, then I'd let it pass. Unfortunately, it is not. You have blamed RM all year long because of his coaching. All year long you have said RM needs to adapt to his players. The 4 rumored players, quite simply, cannot adapt, be coached and/or play on the level we need to achieve. Possibly, MR has a future; however, because he rarely played in games, because we could not watch him in practice and, when he did play, he appeared to play "out of position" - at the 4, it is hard to tell as to his future. Third, get used to players (both his "step-children" and his own recruits) leaving. See his record at Utah for proof. Fourth, your comments about Cotto and Cassity are equally foolish. In short, we now have verbals for 7 players but only 5 available spots. Just because no one has officially left the program yet does not mean they Cotto and Cassity do not know what is going on. Clearly, they are verbally commiting to a scholarship that is not currently available. Clearly they know that RM is running off players and yet, this fact, is not negatively affecting their decision to commit to the SLU/RM. You aren't implying that Cassity and Cotto are either stupid, oblivious to the situation, not aware of the 13 scholarship limit or verbally agreeing upon the condition that they only replace an existing recruit (such as possibly WR) who might not qualify? Fifth, requiring RM to win with only 9 scholarship quality players is also just plain silly. Keep the 4 who cannot play, out of some notion of honor to them, unless they are replaced by "OJ Mayo type" recruits is also silly. Are you implying that it is OK to run off players as long as you replace them with OJ Mayo talent? Reminds me of the joke about lady willing to sleep with the guy for $1 million but then get offend at an offer of $20. Prostitution is established but we're just haggling over the price? Cotto v. Mayo.

My guess is that RM, out of hono, respect and commitment for and to the kids who will leave, is not drawing attention to this issue and, in fact, is/has been deflecting attention while he and the students/players make arrangements for their new school/team. If one of the kids is awaiting a scholarship offer and/or is contemplating between offers/schools, then this is the reason for the lack of official announcement. This is the reason that Cotto and Cassity committed prior to any official announcement. Just because there is no official announcement yet for any of these rumored kids does not mean kids are staying.

Actually, nobody might have to leave - if Reed and Cotto don't qualify - and they have not as of yet - then we are back to 5 new recruits for the 5 schollies we have open.

[billiken_roy]

Roy you said there is no one on UNC to compare to Curry. You can compare Lawson and Ellington to Curry. They are in the same league as players as Curry.

ok, amend my words to say that curry is better than any guard at unc. the point is curry is on another planet than dustin maguire.

[Cowboy]

moytoy if we are to believe that each and every college student athlete is recruited and promised under the premise that they are only being promised one year hell or high water, i agree with you. do you think any college division one recruit is told that is the case during their recruitment? i dont. while that is the fact and all athletic scholarships are indeed one year commits, i believe there isnt a single division one coach that cautiously promises a kid that limited assurance. and these student athetes have outlined their lives and career paths accordingly. now because one coach doesnt like these kids they have to change their lives and likely not to a betterment. granted that is a lesson in life. but it sure wasnt what they were likley led to believe they were getting from saint louis university.

i believe we should be good to our word and live up to the promises we make even if it was a bad decision by soderberg. what will be interesting to see is how the fandom reacts if this merry-go-round continues after this year as well. imo, a "parting of the ways" is only acceptable if the player TOTALLY initiates it, or if that player has disgraced the university (think of the recent happenings at mi$$ouri as an example). if it is a matter the coaches have found a 17 year old that has a better jumpshot or is 40 lbs of muscle stronger so we have to create a roster spot, i think that is wrong.

-didn't his book detail that kids come and go through his program?

-some kids will last under rick, some won't, just like with brad, but hopefully for different reasons

-the merry go round will continue to spin, i would bet, but perhaps not as fast becasue this is where rick his getting to his roster and he will no longer have to live with brad's (insert your own word here)

-your point about gonzaga is way off point as well, as you have held GU out as the model for coaching continuity - we don't have coaching continuity until moser takes over in 7 years (i hope)

-and it may be wise for you to become more accepting or start to connect your own dots as we may never know the total of the situation as to why a kid leaves so you will be in limbo about being able to find your acceptance

[slufanskip]

Actually, nobody might have to leave - if Reed and Cotto don't qualify - and they have not as of yet - then we are back to 5 new recruits for the 5 schollies we have open.

Kids are leaving.

[brianstl]

ok, amend my words to say that curry is better than any guard at unc. the point is curry is on another planet than dustin maguire.

I think every guard in the tournament was.

[cheeseman]

I would be disappointed if we do not land a juco big. Even if it is not Harrelson, I don't think we need a superstar (although that would certainly be nice). Just a serviceable big who can play some defense and grab some rebounds... a juco like Kenny Brown. We didn't have anybody close to that last year.

As for the 7 freshmen, I think there are several ways this can play out... Reed or Cotto or both could fail to qualify... maybe Reed would go to prep school. If all 7 qualify, then probably Reed and maybe Cassitty would be good redshirt candidates. It's nice to finally have some options.

I think if you red shirt your schollie still counts against the 13 so anybody red shirting does not help the numbers situation.

[ACE]

I think if you red shirt your schollie still counts against the 13 so anybody red shirting does not help the numbers situation.

I understand that part, I am figuring DM and another 1-3 will be leaving. I was speaking more to trying to balance out the classes a little and not having 7 players in the same class.

[cheeseman]

-didn't his book detail that kids come and go through his program?

-some kids will last under rick, some won't, just like with brad, but hopefully for different reasons

-the merry go round will continue to spin, i would bet, but perhaps not as fast becasue this is where rick his getting to his roster and he will no longer have to live with brad's (insert your own word here)

-your point about gonzaga is way off point as well, as you have held GU out as the model for coaching continuity - we don't have coaching continuity until moser takes over in 7 years (i hope)

-and it may be wise for you to become more accepting or start to connect your own dots as we may never know the total of the situation as to why a kid leaves so you will be in limbo about being able to find your acceptance

OK, now we have people trying to quote RM's book who obviously did not read it. What RM said in his book was the following: When I realized that I made an evaluation mistake on kid then I would sit down with the kid and explain that I made an error and from what I have learned working with you for this time is that I don't think you will be a good fit for getting playing time. If you want to stay then that is your call but understand that you probably will not get off the bench for the remainder of the time you are here. If you want to transfer somewhere else and want me to help you find another school then I am willing to do so but if you want to handle the situation yourself then that is fine also. This is your decision but I wanted you to know the truth.

This is a long way from him simply having a yearly turn over of kids and kids being treated like the first year was a tryout period. RM said that some kids took him up on his offer to find another school and some found one on their own but also there were a some who said I understand but I still want to stay and they did. People need to stop making RM out to be this ogre - he has done nothing at UT that was remotely close to what some are implying. Read his book before you start making uniformed statements.

[cheeseman]

Kids are leaving.

Skip - what part of the word "might" do you not understand. Also, from your comment I am assuming that you have some verifiable info on this topic - if so then perhaps I missed it but I have not seen where you have said so. I also agree that some probably will leave but all I was trying to do was point out that it is possible that it does not actually have to happen to still be at the magic number of 13.