ACE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 i guess i have always been a "try your best at every single task" kind of guy. personally i dont think preparing for every game in the best manner to succeed as "trying to take a shortcut". and we know he isnt here to move on to another job. that has never been a thought by anyone. as to what 4 wins instead of losses out of the following five games to sam houston, missouri state, kent state, boston college and george washington would have meant to our post season, i tend to disagree. i would say that if we had wins in four of those five games and the rest of our schedule intact, right now we would be 18-6 and i would think in the thick of the ncaa battle. but i am not an rpi expert that could work out those "what if" scenarios. as to the run off scenario. i said that is a storm that hasnt happened yet. i was trying to illustrate a reason that even if he was looking long term why he wouldnt just play the underclassmen possibly. Sure Roy, no problem winning those games... I'm sure another coach could have taken this group and pulled that off... Winning at Boston College, Kent State and Missouri State on the road is no problem. You can play that shoulda, coulda, woulda game every year. If we beat Houston, Temple, UMass, Dayton, Fordham and SIU last year, we really would have had something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Sure Roy, no problem winning those games... I'm sure another coach could have taken this group and pulled that off... Winning at Boston College, Kent State and Missouri State on the road is no problem. You can play that shoulda, coulda, woulda game every year. If we beat Houston, Temple, UMass, Dayton, Fordham and SIU last year, we really would have had something. with rickma i think/thought it was very possible. i think he is that great of a tactical genius. as to last year, that is why soderberg got fired. he didnt win the games he should have. i think rickma is capable of more than i did soderberg. i am sorry you dont. if you didnt, you wouldnt make the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 the cubs shoulda/coulda won a world series by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Luke has not improved tremendously. In fact he has not had as good a year as last year. Stats don't tell the entire story and I know how this board hates facts but his points are down, FG % is down and he has not significantly improved in any statisctical category. He has either stayed the same or went down. Jack, I'm sorry but I don't remember DP ever being a stellar player, as for Luke, you seem to think that the only reason that Luke's fg% is down is because of the coaching change. I love how you simplify things. I thought that perhaps his fg% was down was because he has been forced to frequently play down low because of the inside ineptness of our current centers. You still, for a reason only known to you, refuse to acknowledge the importance of Ian last year. You still maintain that Bryce = Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 1. we played pitt down to the wire on Pitt's court in the 2nd game of the year that counted. cant get any earlier than that and that is one of the best teams in the country. looked like we were ready then. as we have been for most games (at george washington and at dayton excepted) from the siu game on. 2. your opinion. to say he "continualled praised" would lead one to believe he was keeping his negativity behind close doors he was not. liddell being late the one time wasnt the only instance of public airings and you know that is true. 3. again you bring up soderberg. not me. you did. not sure what that has to do with discussing majerus. for example i think franklin pierce was a terrible president. that has nothing to do with a discussion on whether president bush is as well or not. if you want to ad nauseum discuss the pro's and con's of soderberg era. fine go ahead. but keep it separate from majerus. to justify everything majerus does with "but soderberg......." is crazy. let it go. Roy, your comments about playing Pitt down to the wire is a little naive. Determining how good a team or an individual is based on one game is silly. Did Pitt play their best game? Did we play looser because there were no expectations? Did we happen to have an above average shooting game? Did Pitt take us lightly? Based on your comments, we should all expect DP to be a lights out shooter the rest of the year based on his recent performance. You are a smart guy, and you must realize that a truly good team or players is based on his consistency and performance over an extended time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Can we please get back on topic.........the elimination of women's suffrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Can we please get back on topic.........the elimination of women's suffrage It's been bringing this country down for a long time, and I don't care what people say - it's only going to get worse if we don't take a stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 with rickma i think/thought it was very possible. i think he is that great of a tactical genius. as to last year, that is why soderberg got fired. he didnt win the games he should have. i think rickma is capable of more than i did soderberg. i am sorry you dont. if you didnt, you wouldnt make the comparison. I do think he is a great tactical coach, but I suspect we differ on two main points. 1) I know I think the loss of Ian was more significant than you do and I think this team has more talent deficiencies than you do. 2) I think that a coach's success is about 75% about recruiting and the rest coaching. I am not sure your percentage breakdown of recruiting vs. coaching, but I suspect you would say it is a bigger part coaching. Actually, this would make for an interesting thread on a rainy day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 i guess i have always been a "try your best at every single task" kind of guy. personally i dont think preparing for every game in the best manner to succeed as "trying to take a shortcut". and we know he isnt here to move on to another job. that has never been a thought by anyone. as to what 4 wins instead of losses out of the following five games to sam houston, missouri state, kent state, boston college and george washington would have meant to our post season, i tend to disagree. i would say that if we had wins in four of those five games and the rest of our schedule intact, right now we would be 18-6 and i would think in the thick of the ncaa battle. but i am not an rpi expert that could work out those "what if" scenarios. as to the run off scenario. i said that is a storm that hasnt happened yet. i was trying to illustrate a reason that even if he was looking long term why he wouldnt just play the underclassmen possibly. Roy. You are underestimating the need of RM to start the season, without flexibility, to break bad habits, form new ones and, most importantly, get contol of the team. From a distance, Brad seemed to beg and plead his guys into playing defense, etc. In contrast, RM came in and simply demanded defense and didn't seem to mind if this offended his star player or not. IMO, RM had to implement the fact that he is in charge and they will play his way or not at all. We will not know until after the season, or maybe never, how much resistance the players gave RM. To his credit, RM remained inflexible, did not appear to care if we won or lost but continued preaching his way. Not sure I really see the major changes you do with the SIUC game, but assuming one exists, believe that was more the date RM decided the team (not him) was ready to implement changes/flexibility, etc. RM didn't, all of a sudden, become a smarter coach before the SIUC game or decide to not throw the season but instead decided the team is ready for more Majerus offense (add some flexibility to the basic plan) and not less Majerus offense (delete plans). Would love to talk with RM after the season and believe we would all be pleased to see, and know, that all of this has been part of his larger turnaround plan for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Roy. You are underestimating the need of RM to start the season, without flexibility, to break bad habits, form new ones and, most importantly, get contol of the team. From a distance, Brad seemed to beg and plead his guys into playing defense, etc. In contrast, RM came in and simply demanded defense and didn't seem to mind if this offended his star player or not. IMO, RM had to implement the fact that he is in charge and they will play his way or not at all. We will not know until after the season, or maybe never, how much resistance the players gave RM. To his credit, RM remained inflexible, did not appear to care if we won or lost but continued preaching his way. Not sure I really see the major changes you do with the SIUC game, but assuming one exists, believe that was more the date RM decided the team (not him) was ready to implement changes/flexibility, etc. RM didn't, all of a sudden, become a smarter coach before the SIUC game or decide to not throw the season but instead decided the team is ready for more Majerus offense (add some flexibility to the basic plan) and not less Majerus offense (delete plans). Would love to talk with RM after the season and believe we would all be pleased to see, and know, that all of this has been part of his larger turnaround plan for SLU. if the previous editions of the billikens were horrible defensively you would be correct. they were not. we were always one of the better defensive teams. i agree we are even better, but imo that is more about switching defensive philosophies to a denial man to man from soderberg's pack man to man that was more geared to protecting the middle. as to your sentence, "RM didn't, all of a sudden, become a smarter coach before the SIUC game or decide to not throw the season but instead decided the team is ready for more Majerus offense (add some flexibility to the basic plan) and not less Majerus offense (delete plans)." the only problem you have selling me that line is that majerus himself declared he was changing his focus and couldnt stick with his previous plan as it wouldnt be fair to the seniors. he said it, i didnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I just still don't understand this belief that Majerus has made major changes. I caught part of Frank and Rammer's show today. They had Earl Austin on with them. Among the three of them, they had the most knowledgeable local media members in regard to SLU basketball. All three of them agreed that Majerus has not really made any significant changes to his coaching and system (other than working Brown into the rotation). I heard Miklasz say the exact same thing on the role home last night. Maybe I don't understand the nuances of the game, but the only major changes I see is the addition of more on-the-ball screens. Rick has made one or two comments suggesting he made a few game-by-game adjustments, but every coach does that. I obviously agree with you that the future is bright under Rick, I just don't agree that Rick has somehow made these dramatic changes that you and your unlikely ally Roy keep referencing. My point is that very few of us on here understand the nuances of the game. I'm just going by what coach has said. Maybe in his next book RM will reveal some kind of Karate Kid strategy about this season. Whether I agree with roy or not isn't important to this topic. We've agreed on many things over the years, and disagreed on some others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 the only other rickma storm cloud i am waiting to see pass over or erupt in a thunderstorm is how he treats his existing roster over the summer. while i am very anxious to have a top team, i am also not in favor of achieving that by throwing our roster on the scrap heap and running kids off. if it takes three years to turn over the roster so be it. play the hand your dealt and coach up the players you have the best you can. Roy, I respect your consistent disagreement with this practice, but I fear that you are going to be greatly disappointed. Majerus believes that this is a fair and necessary practice. Like it or not, it will take place at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Roy, I respect your consistent disagreement with this practice, but I fear that you are going to be greatly disappointed. Majerus believes that this is a fair and necessary practice. Like it or not, it will take place at SLU. It is what it is. That might scare away some recruits, but it could also draw in some confident players who appreciate the challenge. Also, it DOES look like RM rewards hard work. I think a hard-working player will always find a few minutes of PT here and there, unless he just can't get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 if the previous editions of the billikens were horrible defensively you would be correct. they were not. we were always one of the better defensive teams. i agree we are even better, but imo that is more about switching defensive philosophies to a denial man to man from soderberg's pack man to man that was more geared to protecting the middle. as to your sentence, "RM didn't, all of a sudden, become a smarter coach before the SIUC game or decide to not throw the season but instead decided the team is ready for more Majerus offense (add some flexibility to the basic plan) and not less Majerus offense (delete plans)." the only problem you have selling me that line is that majerus himself declared he was changing his focus and couldnt stick with his previous plan as it wouldnt be fair to the seniors. he said it, i didnt. Roy. My comments were not limiting RM's early season approach only to defense. Instead, RM made it clear he was implementing his system come hell or high water this year for the long term good of the program while being honest that he might do things different if his time frame was only one year. Keep in mind, though, that RM (like all good coaches) implements a certain style and then get the players suited to play that style. In the short run, it would appear that a head coach might appear to enjoy greater success by not making changes and allowing the players to continue playing the prior style which might, or might not, be more suited for their game. I am not aware of, nor would I want, our head coach to do this (implementing the pack man to man defense over his denial man to man). Bring the pain on now. If RM had a one (1) year time frame, then maybe so. Possibly, this is what RM was referring to. Count me on the side that recognizes adjustments made within the offense but no major changes seen or abandonments of the RM system. Should RM have started implementing flexibiity a few games earlier than the SIUC game, possibly. Again, though, the team (TL and KL included) were not yet comfortable with what RM was implementing and resistance was clear from key members of the team. Got to believe RM was more focused on getting control of the team, breaking bad habits and looking longterm for the program. Keep in mind also, that most coaches usually have the abiltiy to recruit at least 1 or 2 players but RM was hired too late. The SLU is further unusual in that while we are a senior laden team (4 seniors), DB had not contributed in over a year (and was inconsistent then) and BH (a 5th year Senior) was still a mystery who had only contributed marginally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Also early in the season before the SIU game we had about 10 games in 22 or 23 games. After accounting for travel and game prep, not enough time to implement changes or even continuing to learn the system he was trying to put in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Got to believe RM was more focused on getting control of the team, breaking bad habits and looking longterm for the program. you make it sound like rickma was walking into the baylor situation a few years back or something. what control issues did he have to focus on? what bad habits did this 20-10 team need to break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 you make it sound like rickma was walking into the baylor situation a few years back or something. what control issues did he have to focus on? what bad habits did this 20-10 team need to break? i'll join the fray... you are not serious? there have been 2 well documented events with one player in particular and bad habits are anything he does not want the kids to do, in other words teaching them a new system on both ends of the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedbluegary Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Roy a few of the problems under Sodie. 1. Chinese fire drill offense 2. To many guys getting open looks at the basket. 3. Attacking the basket. 4. Not recuiting Big men. 5. not having a plan b in recruiting. Lastly this was a 19 win team last year we had to beat D-2 Quincy to open the season. How many times this year has Rick said I don't know what to do, or I don't have an answer for that. They played good defense but it wasn't a physical defense. One thing about Sodie he was a nice guy but he wasn't being paid to be a nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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