RM on KFNS

[slufanskip]

I caught the end of RM's interview on KFNS this morning. A couple of quick notes.

He was asked about Tommie going to the basket and stated Tommie had a bit of an aversion to contact, he didn't say it like he was trying to be cruel, just matter of factly. He added that the guys still have to get a better feel for what is and isn't a good shot. For example the one he got on Tommie for last game was just inside the 3 from the spot where you would be if the free throw line was extended out to the 3 pt line. He stated it was one of the toughest shots to make on the court, then the next time Tommie was indecisive about whether to shoot or drive which caused him problems.

He also said he is trying to get the guys in the frame of mind ... not to play against the opponent, but rather to play against the best game they are possible of playing. He said he knows that was MJ's approach and would imagine it is Pujols approach also. He added that many times when things aren't going well, they start pressing and aren't just playing basketball, for example when doing a drill the guys are more focused on the drill rather than just playing ball within the confines of the drill.

[3star_recruit]

I caught the end of RM's interview on KFNS this morning. A couple of quick notes.

He was asked about Tommie going to the basket and stated Tommie had a bit of an aversion to contact, he didn't say it like he was trying to be cruel, just matter of factly.

I was listening as well. Tommie has been driving to the hole for two years, went to the line over 200 times in his first two years, was the best rebounding guard in the country and now he has an aversion to contact? I just had to shake my head.

[jjray]

I was listening as well. Tommie has been driving to the hole for two years, went to the line over 200 times in his first two years, was the best rebounding guard in the country and now he has an aversion to contact? I just had to shake my head.

I don't recall Tommie having poor shot selection in his first two seasons in the sense that he was hoisting up bad shots. Did he occasionally shoot a fade-away over a double team in the paint? Well yeah but I bet he made 50% of those shots. Prior to this season, my biggest gripe was Tommie giving up the ball at the end of key possessions such as the infamous kickout to Danny Brown in the final seconds at GW.

Here's a thought. Majerus's way is causing Tommie and Kevin to regress. Everybody knows it and I'd bet the majic man would agree. Question: will the short term pain (regression) caused by the mental pounding these players are taking from Majerus translate into us having a better program in the future? Will it advance the careers of these two players? Don't give it a knee-jerk "yes". Practically the entire roster will turn over next season except Tommie and Kevin. If I'm one of the other players currently on the roster with eligibility left, I jump ship because Majerus is bring him "his players" and you ain't one of them. We're dreadful this season. To a frightening extent. We'll be deeper, more skilled, and more athletic next season but, again, 6 out of the 8 man rotation will be freshman. Our post players will be freshman. Another learning year for the Billikens ... the senior season for Tommie and Kevin. Ergo, what's going on this season with the team has almost nothing to do with the future of the Billikens under Majerus. None of these players will be part of the future Majerus teams that content for A-10 titles (should he live that long).

The program gets nothing out of the Majerus "retraining" of Tommie and Kevin. These two players regress. But will they somehow be better players in the long run from all this?

I'm just a fan watching from the stands. Maybe someone else has greater insight. I can't fathom how this helps either player. Tommie needed to be more aggressive on the offensive end but Majerus's haranguing of him has turned TL3 into a timid player. Kevin played with a swagger from day 1. The swagger is gone. He now passes up open threes to rotate the ball to Dwayne Polk on the perimeter. It pains my heart to see it.

Majerus may yet build something special at Saint Louis University but I feel bad how this is going down for Tommie and Kevin.

[jimbofive]

I don't recall Tommie having poor shot selection in his first two seasons in the sense that he was hoisting up bad shots. Did he occasionally shoot a fade-away over a double team in the paint? Well yeah but I bet he made 50% of those shots. Prior to this season, my biggest gripe was Tommie giving up the ball at the end of key possessions such as the infamous kickout to Danny Brown in the final seconds at GW.

Here's a thought. Majerus's way is causing Tommie and Kevin to regress. Everybody knows it and I'd bet the majic man would agree. Question: will the short term pain (regression) caused by the mental pounding these players are taking from Majerus translate into us having a better program in the future? Will it advance the careers of these two players? Don't give it a knee-jerk "yes". Practically the entire roster will turn over next season except Tommie and Kevin. If I'm one of the other players currently on the roster with eligibility left, I jump ship because Majerus is bring him "his players" and you ain't one of them. We're dreadful this season. To a frightening extent. We'll be deeper, more skilled, and more athletic next season but, again, 6 out of the 8 man rotation will be freshman. Our post players will be freshman. Another learning year for the Billikens ... the senior season for Tommie and Kevin. Ergo, what's going on this season with the team has almost nothing to do with the future of the Billikens under Majerus. None of these players will be part of the future Majerus teams that content for A-10 titles (should he live that long).

The program gets nothing out of the Majerus "retraining" of Tommie and Kevin. These two players regress. But will they somehow be better players in the long run from all this?

I'm just a fan watching from the stands. Maybe someone else has greater insight. I can't fathom how this helps either player. Tommie needed to be more aggressive on the offensive end but Majerus's haranguing of him has turned TL3 into a timid player. Kevin played with a swagger from day 1. The swagger is gone. He now passes up open threes to rotate the ball to Dwayne Polk on the perimeter. It pains my heart to see it.

Majerus may yet build something special at Saint Louis University but I feel bad how this is going down for Tommie and Kevin.

I put the onus for their woes evenly upon Soderberg and Majerus. It is the former's fault for recruiting a bunch of stiffs the last 2 years and the latter's for breaking 2 wild horses' spirits. The only "good game" either of them has had this year was against Pacific, when Tommie got the shots he was supposed to get, took them, and made them. Kevin has had a few decent scoring games, but it was all just free throws and garbage points. This SUCKS for those two, and to a lesser extent, for Luke Meyer.

And a question that hasn't been asked at all really... WHAT IN THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO TOMMIE'S REBOUNDING!?!?!? He's averaging 3.4 a game. Kevin's averaging 3.8. Pretty sure he had SEVENTEEN boards against Quincy last year (albeit a D2 team). I doubt he'll hit double digits at all this season.

[billiken_roy]

I caught the end of RM's interview on KFNS this morning. A couple of quick notes.

He was asked about Tommie going to the basket and stated Tommie had a bit of an aversion to contact, he didn't say it like he was trying to be cruel, just matter of factly. He added that the guys still have to get a better feel for what is and isn't a good shot. For example the one he got on Tommie for last game was just inside the 3 from the spot where you would be if the free throw line was extended out to the 3 pt line. He stated it was one of the toughest shots to make on the court, then the next time Tommie was indecisive about whether to shoot or drive which caused him problems.

He also said he is trying to get the guys in the frame of mind ... not to play against the opponent, but rather to play against the best game they are possible of playing. He said he knows that was MJ's approach and would imagine it is Pujols approach also. He added that many times when things aren't going well, they start pressing and aren't just playing basketball, for example when doing a drill the guys are more focused on the drill rather than just playing ball within the confines of the drill.

skip, go to

that really confirms liddell has an aversion to contact.

also how does tommie be one of the leading rebounding guards in the country if he is afraid of contact.

majerus is just spewing when he says crap like this.

i have no problem with the "playing against yourself" speak though.

[davidnark]

Liddell is a difficult player to peg. At times in the past, he has shown great aggression rebounding or finishing on the offensive end. On the other hand, I would not view Liddell as a player who does a good job using his body to draw contact around the hoop. He has more of a tendancy to glide around the defense then into them. I suspect that Majerus is commenting on Tommie's preference to glide around contact rather than into it. Then again, maybe Majurus is just a crazy old man who doesn't know anything about basketball or his own players.

[billiken_roy]

maybe Majurus is just a crazy old man who doesn't know anything about basketball or his own players.

exactly the opposite david. this guy is a master of doublespeak and planting what he wants us and his players to believe. he obviously learned a lot from his politician father. and i dont say this negatively.

[ACE]

Majerus had a father who was a politician?

Roy, did you not say last year that you defended Soderberg nearly all the time in part because you wanted to try to portray the program in a positive light? In other words you thought criticizing him could hurt the program and the way it is perceived. I just find it so amazing that you are expressing such negativity now on a regular basis.

[bonwich]

Majerus had a father who was a politician?

"I love to read, I love to bike, I love to body surf. Basketball isn't my whole life,'' said Majerus, 59, who is divorced. "I've gone to a couple Mark Twain conferences at Cal Berkeley. I'm kind of a nerd. I'm a political animal." Indeed, he is tight with Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Republican, and Wisconsin Sen. Herb Kohl, a Democrat, and, out of season, loves to watch Sunday morning shows like "Meet the Press'' or "Face the Nation.'' Majerus' father, Raymond, was once the United Auto Workers' secretary-treasurer and helped get Jimmy Carter elected. Majerus loves jazz and Motown, the music of Bruce Springsteen and Billie Holiday, the writings of Thomas Friedman of the New York Times.

[billiken_roy]

Majerus had a father who was a politician?

I just find it so amazing that you are expressing such negativity now on a regular basis.

majerus father i believe was a union head with either the teamsters or the uaw. i forget since i dont have majerus book with me to check.

again, ace, expectations.

[drbilliken]

majerus father i believe was a union head with either the teamsters or the uaw. i forget since i dont have majerus book with me to check.

again, ace, expectations.

Billiken fans are not the only ones who are interested in RM.

http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?...A-0CB9F193BCC7}

[ACE]

majerus father i believe was a union head with either the teamsters or the uaw. i forget since i dont have majerus book with me to check.

again, ace, expectations.

But weren't you afraid last year of others' "negativity" hurting the program?

As for expectations, this is a Sodie roster... which means not NCAA worthy and in the last three years, not even NIT worthy.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Majerus had a father who was a politician?

Roy, did you not say last year that you defended Soderberg nearly all the time in part because you wanted to try to portray the program in a positive light? In other words you thought criticizing him could hurt the program and the way it is perceived. I just find it so amazing that you are expressing such negativity now on a regular basis.

Ace, you gotta read Rick's book. It was the best $1.17 i ever spent. Check out amazon.com.

[billiken_roy]

But weren't you afraid last year of others' "negativity" hurting the program?

As for expectations, this is a Sodie roster... which means not NCAA worthy and in the last three years, not even NIT worthy.

a soderberg roster almost completely intact that I dont agree with the "ian was everything mentality" that is being coached by a hall of fame coach and an all star coaching staff and greatly underachieving.

again, with grawer, spoon, romar and soderberg, i saw program success as something that the coach was going to have to attain on their own over a slow long period of time. thus, yes, i indeed was afraid of negativity for the program with those lesser coaches (not just soderberg. i preached it for as long as we have had a billiken message board).

with majerus the investment has been made that signals to me that it no longer was business as usual for slu basketball. i expected more immediately. which takes us back to the first sentence of this post again. those of you that think ian indeed was actually bill walton, now say our team sucks. i say ian was what we got last year and was nothing more than a support player and likely either the 3rd or 4th player on the team and with majerus and his coaching staff plus all the other added program perks there should have at minimum been a par season.

if you dont like my answer, dont keep asking.

[slufanskip]

I don't recall Tommie having poor shot selection in his first two seasons in the sense that he was hoisting up bad shots. Did he occasionally shoot a fade-away over a double team in the paint? Well yeah but I bet he made 50% of those shots. Prior to this season, my biggest gripe was Tommie giving up the ball at the end of key possessions such as the infamous kickout to Danny Brown in the final seconds at GW.

Here's a thought. Majerus's way is causing Tommie and Kevin to regress. Everybody knows it and I'd bet the majic man would agree. Question: will the short term pain (regression) caused by the mental pounding these players are taking from Majerus translate into us having a better program in the future? Will it advance the careers of these two players? Don't give it a knee-jerk "yes". Practically the entire roster will turn over next season except Tommie and Kevin. If I'm one of the other players currently on the roster with eligibility left, I jump ship because Majerus is bring him "his players" and you ain't one of them. We're dreadful this season. To a frightening extent. We'll be deeper, more skilled, and more athletic next season but, again, 6 out of the 8 man rotation will be freshman. Our post players will be freshman. Another learning year for the Billikens ... the senior season for Tommie and Kevin. Ergo, what's going on this season with the team has almost nothing to do with the future of the Billikens under Majerus. None of these players will be part of the future Majerus teams that content for A-10 titles (should he live that long).

The program gets nothing out of the Majerus "retraining" of Tommie and Kevin. These two players regress. But will they somehow be better players in the long run from all this?

I'm just a fan watching from the stands. Maybe someone else has greater insight. I can't fathom how this helps either player. Tommie needed to be more aggressive on the offensive end but Majerus's haranguing of him has turned TL3 into a timid player. Kevin played with a swagger from day 1. The swagger is gone. He now passes up open threes to rotate the ball to Dwayne Polk on the perimeter. It pains my heart to see it.

Majerus may yet build something special at Saint Louis University but I feel bad how this is going down for Tommie and Kevin.

I don't know if TL has an aversion to contact or not, but I've spent many games wishing he would get more aggressive and I bet if I researched this site I'm not any where close to the only one.

Your thought that he shot over 50% of the shots where he put up a fade away jumper over a double team in the paint is confusing considering that he shot 41 and 47 % of his shots in his first 2 years and is shooting 46% this year. I highly doubt he hit over 50% of the shots where he was double teamed.

Before I looked at the stats I would have thought that TL would go to the line more than KL or at least equal, being that TL is more of a slasher and his real strength lies in his ability to get to the basket. The fact is that he doesn't and it's not really even close. He has gone to the line less than half of the times KL did this year and about 25% less last year even though he played about 9% more minutes. I wonder why that is? I doubt RM tells Tommie he shouldn't go agressively to the basket but tells Kevin it's ok if he does. This is fact and it's only common sense, Tommie has the green light to get to the hole anytime he has a good opportunity.

RM's retraining of TL certainly will help Tommie. The talk on here about Tommie being an NBA prospect is a little off base. Tommie could be, but right now he isn't anywhere close. His ball handling probles last year weren't because he can't dribble well enough, they were because he was lacsidaisical. He little to no vertical rise when he shoots a jump shot, he shoots it flat footed and doesn't release quickly. Tommie needs to stay intense at all times when he is in the game. RM trying to make Tommie a better player will certainly help the Billikens.

I don't know why on this board the consensus is generally that the coaches are usually responsible when the players play badly. The players are almost never held accountable. Last year when I tried to lay some of the blame for the St. Bonnie's game on the players the backlash was comical.

[davidnark]

a soderberg roster almost completely intact that I dont agree with the "ian was everything mentality" that is being coached by a hall of fame coach and an all star coaching staff and greatly underachieving.

A few facts:

The combined record of the opponents' SLU has lost to is 31-6.

SLU has won every game this season that they were favored to win.

We would all love more success to date, but the facts indicate that this team is not "greatly underachieving." They may not be overachieving, but they are not statistically underachieving.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I love to body surf.

Probably didn't do that to often. Grew up and went to college in Milwaukee. Coached in Muncie and Salt Lake City (not exactly near a ocean).

I guess he got upset when the WAC and Mountain West formation occurred and Hawaii went with the WAC.

[kevinfootes]

I don't recall Tommie having poor shot selection in his first two seasons in the sense that he was hoisting up bad shots. Did he occasionally shoot a fade-away over a double team in the paint? Well yeah but I bet he made 50% of those shots. Prior to this season, my biggest gripe was Tommie giving up the ball at the end of key possessions such as the infamous kickout to Danny Brown in the final seconds at GW.

Here's a thought. Majerus's way is causing Tommie and Kevin to regress. Everybody knows it and I'd bet the majic man would agree. Question: will the short term pain (regression) caused by the mental pounding these players are taking from Majerus translate into us having a better program in the future? Will it advance the careers of these two players? Don't give it a knee-jerk "yes". Practically the entire roster will turn over next season except Tommie and Kevin. If I'm one of the other players currently on the roster with eligibility left, I jump ship because Majerus is bring him "his players" and you ain't one of them. We're dreadful this season. To a frightening extent. We'll be deeper, more skilled, and more athletic next season but, again, 6 out of the 8 man rotation will be freshman. Our post players will be freshman. Another learning year for the Billikens ... the senior season for Tommie and Kevin. Ergo, what's going on this season with the team has almost nothing to do with the future of the Billikens under Majerus. None of these players will be part of the future Majerus teams that content for A-10 titles (should he live that long).

The program gets nothing out of the Majerus "retraining" of Tommie and Kevin. These two players regress. But will they somehow be better players in the long run from all this?

I'm just a fan watching from the stands. Maybe someone else has greater insight. I can't fathom how this helps either player. Tommie needed to be more aggressive on the offensive end but Majerus's haranguing of him has turned TL3 into a timid player. Kevin played with a swagger from day 1. The swagger is gone. He now passes up open threes to rotate the ball to Dwayne Polk on the perimeter. It pains my heart to see it.

Majerus may yet build something special at Saint Louis University but I feel bad how this is going down for Tommie and Kevin.

I agree it's a bummer that KL and TL deserve a better fate, but I wouldn't rule out next season entirely. Don't be shocked to see a JUCO or two in the spring who might have an immediate impact.

[kevinfootes]

A few facts:

The combined record of the opponents' SLU has lost to is 31-6.

SLU has won every game this season that they were favored to win.

We would all love more success to date, but the facts indicate that this team is not "greatly underachieving." They may not be overachieving, but they are not statistically underachieving.

What statistics are you considering? Obviously not shooting percentage. The last four games have been as bad as we've seen in a long time. One or two in a row might be a fluke. Four in a row is a problem. I'm not saying they can't pull out of it, but it can't really be ignored at this point.

[jjray]

I agree it's a bummer that KL and TL deserve a better fate, but I wouldn't rule out next season entirely. Don't be shocked to see a JUCO or two in the spring who might have an immediate impact.

Yes, you are correct. And Barry Eberhardt will probably get to slide from 5 to 4 helping his ability to contribute. It's not a lost cause yet for 2008-2009. Getting Woody Harrelson's kid would help as well (satire). But to be realistic, I would not expect things to heat up until 2009-2010.

[slu72]

Yes, you are correct. And Barry Eberhardt will probably get to slide from 5 to 4 helping his ability to contribute. It's not a lost cause yet for 2008-2009. Getting Woody Harrelson's kid would help as well (satire). But to be realistic, I would not expect things to heat up until 2009-2010.

I really thought going into the RM era that our house divided period of the last two years during the UB reign would end. It is odd to see the guys that were preaching patience with a mediocre coach who took us nowhere in five years, and wasn't about to any time soon, now blasting RM for having the same W-L record UB would likely have coached this team to. I'm sure for all you game regulars it is painful to watch the struggles of two guys we think are two of the best guards in the country. Whether they are or not is moot. We think they are, and have two seasons of results as evidence. However, two good guards is not enough to get it done. Our problems today can be traced to our lack of a Sophomore class , a couple of more Juniors, and no noticeable development of our Seniors, save for LM. We don't have an average PF, PG, big, or zone buster off the bench. In a 24 month recruiting period UB landed two D1 players . In 3 years at SLU, DP, BH, and DB have not improved. Is this RM's fault? You can't include our frosh class, although PE has been a bonus, because under UB they wouldn't be getting anymore time than they are under RM. No denying the last four games have been ugly, so ugly it's like watching a rerun of our tournament game against St. Joes four times in a row. Waterboarding would be a preferred method of torture to viewing that debacle over and over. Yes, some first year coaches can have great success. But they most likely are taking over a program that had talent coming back, ala Tx A&M and Butler, because the former HC took a bigger job. For the first time in many years we have an incoming class that should have us dancing in the streets. But will they provide us with the quick fix so many posters on here want? Probably not. So next year is going to be more of the same unless TL and KL buy in totally to the program and we land a JUCO or two in the spring. Face it, RM is BUILDING a program here at SLU. It will take time. Maybe 3 to 4 years. He seems committed to that, so let's give him his shot as so many of you were willing to give UB another year or two. Recall, Broy, you were always quick to cite Coach K's record at Duke his first three years. Why aren't you willing to cut the same slack for RM?

[Sheltiedave]

SLU72, Saint Louis U has ALWAYS tried to do basketball on the cheap. Ludicrous marketing budget, low head coach salaries, asst. coaching salaries even lower, no weight rooms, poor practice facilities, low level of booster financial support all conspired with little University president support to run a complete DI basketball program. This showed in the makeup of the team, with the last complete team probably being the 1971 team, which could reasonable go seven deep. Every coach in modern Billiken history has been forced to make do with fairly limited resources.

We finally have a coach that would command a million dollar salary anywhere, and we see a corresponding increase in the important sections of the infrastructure. As any astute business person would point out, we should expect and see improvement in metrics popping up in the short term, and broad based, sustainable improvement in overall performance at some point next season. At this point, all our Sagarin metrics are DOWN from last season. We have two very ugly losses that will ensure all NCAA dreams are for naught.

As much as it would be nice to present a positive image, my assessment is that RM is doing a very good job teaching his players how to implement his offense and defense, and he has done a rather lackluster job of coaching the team. If we were a freshmen/sophomore dominated team, and we were coming off a 10 to 15 win season, this ranking would be different. Instead we start three seniors and two juniors, with our first two subs being a juco junior and a freshmen. Can't ask for more experience then that!

Two retired DI bball coaches who live in town -neither having anything in the past to do with SLU- both note that RM could coach this team to the Dance before the season started. They have also said he is past the point of wanting to change how he coaches for two years to maximize the talent he does have.

[billiken_roy]

Recall, Broy, you were always quick to cite Coach K's record at Duke his first three years. Why aren't you willing to cut the same slack for RM?

please give me coach K and his entire coaching staff's credentials prior to taking over at duke.

thanks in advance

[Basketbill]

hate to always be optimistic but, remember Washington with Romar in his first year.........18-10 wining thier last 10 games or so........granted they got favorable press but if any SLU team were to get hot at the end of the season and get favorable press it would be this team with Majerus!

[Basketbill]

"At this point, all our Sagarin metrics are DOWN from last season. We have two very ugly losses that will ensure all NCAA dreams are for naught."

A little bit of an overstatement at this point in the season.

"Two retired DI bball coaches who live in town -neither having anything in the past to do with SLU- both note that RM could coach this team to the Dance before the season started. They have also said he is past the point of wanting to change how he coaches for two years to maximize the talent he does have."

Which two?? So he has a long term view, to build the program. So he will take his lumps the first year and hopefully not the first two.