Taj79 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I know this was posted in the "brawl" thread but I thought I'd move it here .... http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/41737/cincy-xaviers-brawl-suspensions-fall-short I disagree with the suspensions ..... the clowns from Cincinnati should have been suspended for the YEAR. Gates for punches, the brave bench kid for kicking someone while down, and anyone leaving the bench. The same with the perps from Xavier. Dezmine Wells was throwing punches. I said early on that Xavier's offense was Holloway and Lyons playing one-on-one playground ball while the bigs unmercilessly crashed the boards. Saw it first time at Vandy. Saw it again at Butler. Was indisposed Saturday so I did not get to watch the game live and in its entirety only seeing the "highlights" on tape. But I have seen other brawls like this-- usually on the playground where thugs and gansters abound --- not in some multi-million dollar palace on a campus supposedly above all this crap. If I was to place blame, there would be a number of "institutions" that should be banned forever ... namely trash-talking, street cred, and social media. Which, given the nature of today's society, will NEVER happen. This all started with tweets? Some 18-year-old bozo running his mouth on some pregame radio show? You have to like someone like Majerus only allowing his upperclassment to speak. Although both X upperclassmen, Holloway and Lyons, would never be allowed on any media for me. Holloway feeling "disrespected" and then running his mouth in retaliation? Nice classy post-game press conference Xavier. Where the hell was Mack in all this? I at least saw Cronin on the post-game -- at least saying the right things at that time. Saturday night, I actually respected Cronin. But now that seems like concocted, invented outrage meant to dispel the backlash. Thank goodness that didn't happen at UC --- having sat with those "fans" I am certain the court would have looked like Indiana's did later that night only with bagging and tagging the objectives of the night. But in the end, I blame the presidents of both Xavier and Cincinnati for NOT doing the right thing. Penn State fired JoPa. Syracuse fired Bernie Fine. Cronin even said he hope the president wouldn't fire him. Again, Mack is nowhere to be seen. Sure, let's "suspend" a doofus like Frease in the pre-season to show our scholastic integrity. But when we are playing games, and astronimical money is available for rankings, wins, tv appearances and conference coiffers, everybody sees the tesiticles shrink up quite quickly. Did the A10 weigh in? If they do, they won't do anything else either. You think they are going to weaken their potential conference moneymaker? I doubt it. Thi sisn't meant to dredge things up from last year, but one can onyl wonder what the "student court" at SLU would do if faced with this kind of stuff. I always held Xavier up higher than the clowns at UC. Not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Mack's the big culprit in this deal. Even though he didn't throw a punch, he should have come down on his kids at halftime and told them to shut the f*&^ up and just play ball. Having lived in Ohio and was a regular listener to WLW 700, the cross town shootout has always been a "mean" rivalry. While they never had anything that approached what happened Saturday, there's always been bad blood between X and UC. Lyons set the stage for this thing right before half time, and the coaches should have sensed this could get out of control. Mack was also up by 20 when the damn broke w/ 9 seconds left. He should have pulled Tu and Lyons out a minute earlier. But who knows, the gangsta mentality might have erupted in the post game hand shake ritual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Let's also not forget that Xavier is a Catholic University. Whether you agree or disagree, Catholic institutions should make sure they send an even stronger message that this stuff will not be tolerated. Xavier should have done more about this all IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Mack's the big culprit in this deal. Even though he didn't throw a punch, he should have come down on his kids at halftime and told them to shut the f*&^ up and just play ball. Having lived in Ohio and was a regular listener to WLW 700, the cross town shootout has always been a "mean" rivalry. While they never had anything that approached what happened Saturday, there's always been bad blood between X and UC. Lyons set the stage for this thing right before half time, and the coaches should have sensed this could get out of control. Mack was also up by 20 when the damn broke w/ 9 seconds left. He should have pulled Tu and Lyons out a minute earlier. But who knows, the gangsta mentality might have erupted in the post game hand shake ritual. Wonderful post, 72. What a difference not having Sean Miller on the sidelines makes. I never thought I'd say this, but Sean Miller would have been like Jeff van Gundy out there, trying to pull his guys out of the scrum. Coach Miller wouldn't have tolerated any of this. For all we know, Mack's words in the locker room in the moments leading up to the game or at halftime might have been fuel on the proverbial fire. Chris Mack is way over his head at Xavier and should be ousted immediately. I hope all X alums are calling for his ouster today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk18 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 These suspensions seemed very weak especially for Tu and Yancy. I wonder if Frease got any serious injuries. That blow looked like it could have led to a nasty orbital fracture. SHREK DOWN ON THE DECK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Just as suspected and not surprisngly, the A10 followed the Big East lead and agreed with Xavier's suspensions with no further penalties. http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121111aac.html I disagree with you Metz .... how can a coach, who's livlihood and employment is contingent on wins and losses, be expected to do anything over and above what the school's administration is willin gto do or is doing? One has to recognize that the administration cannot hold the coach accountable when it is that administration that hamstrings the coach by ejecting some of his key guys. As an administration you can --- and I'm saying you should --- but it has to be everyone on the same page with the sam eunderstanding. You can't dismiss a whole team and then tell the coach he's fired because he didn't go undefeated or make the dance. As for what you attribute to Mack or Miller, pure speculation and conjecture. Given that Mack played at X and against some UC teams in this rivalry, who knows. But we don't really know so why go there and invent that up? It seems apparent to this reader you hate X and just want to take them down. I'd rather do that on the court, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckFayton Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 1. Xavier’s Tu Holloway had a legit chance to be the national player of the year. Holloway could be like Jameer Nelson or Kemba Walker by hitting late-game shots to propel his team. But Holloway’s post-game comments Saturday damaged his reputation and his candidacy will be damaged significantly by his behavior. http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/41748/3-point-shot-indiana-deserves-to-be-ranked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someoneelse Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 It seems like a punch that connects is dealt with more severely than a punch that whiffs. I don't know if I agree with that methodology. The intent is the same, one punch lucky, the other less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Gates should have gotten at least 10, with Mbodj right there as well. Both should also have to do a lot of very public apologizing and making up for it. Gates was walking around with both fists cocked, including his left in a blocking position. He was clearly there to fistfight anyone he could, and Frease got the worst of it. 6 and 1 seem fair for the other two UC players. I know Xavier and the A10 made their minds up separately of UC and the Big East, but following 3 6-game suspensions with 4, 4, 2, and 1-game suspensions made it look weak. Wells could have gotten 6 by the standards UC used. I wouldn't mind seeing the other three Xavier guys all get 4-game suspensions. That would send a clear message that it isn't favoring its stars. Holloway and Lyons might not have landed punches but they were the clear trash-talkers who instigated the whole thing. They were running their mouths for 2 solid hours. Yes, the refs should have been ready with technicals earlier but that didn't happen. For those two players to bait UC into this mess, and then to sit there like unrepentant jackasses after the game was shameful. My guess is that Xavier didn't suspend them longer because the coaches, SIDs, and athletic department in general are to blame for letting them do the postgame press conference. The question I can't seem to find an answer for is whether all of Xavier's players will get to travel to Hawaii. They play Oral Roberts (I'd be very curious to see how that school would deal with a brawl) at home, followed by 3 in Hawaii for a Christmas tournament. Do Wells and that stupid walk-on get to go at all? The message the school could have sent the rest of the country would have been to prevent Holloway and Lyons from playing in this. Mack was too soft on his guys and continues to be. Like him, I think the 'gangster' language was taken out of context but I immediately slapped my forehead when I heard it because I knew how that would play with frightened old white people. Idiotic comment. My disappointment is more with the overall attitude shown, the pounding of chests and trash talking and dancing on graves. Even Frease stood up from laying on the court getting his eye patched up by pounding his chest and lacing the UC fans with profanity. Anyway, Mack should own up to it more and demonstrate the tougher reaction Cronin has shown. He should not be fired; Metz, as usual, is king of the overreaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Paging Mr. Gruehls....paging Mr. Gruehls....you're wanted on thread 12...paging Mr. Gruehls.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -if i use SLU's schedule as a comparative we have 30 scheduled regular season games (we were guaranteed 3 games in anaheim), so 6 games is 20% of the season, just a point to measure severity -since this was not an ncaa game does ncaa enforcement have any jurisdiction to take action? -i'll take a bit of a different approach first, the officials, cronin said he told them to take control and they did not, they were on the floor the entire game, aware this was a rivalry game, did they not see this potential? not sure if they were a10 or beast guys but if i am the conf i take some action on them for allowing this situation to get to where it got, perhaps they have as discipline on officials often happens without public notice -i think each school should have suspended the head coach and each assistant for at least a game (with the assistants serving one game at a time, not all at once) this event was bad for the game and neither head coach or their staff obviously did enough in preparation or at the time to prevent this getting out of hand -maybe if these suspencions were for conf games or the x players can't go to hawaii i would have been more in line with them, but they seem to me to not go far enough -this punishment, esp on xavier's end, seem light and the boxer and the kicker from cinn imo should have gotten more -as the columnist wrote and i agree with, cronin talked the talk on sat and failed to walk the walk on sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Frease was fine they say and the xrays were negative. Getting hit on that part of the eye cuts easily and some stitches will close that right up. Shocking that TU didn't get more suspension than he did. Shocking. I also blame the refs for a lot of this. They let the game get out of hand. Where were the technicals during the game for the trash talking to the bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I would like to see the A-10 suspend them for conference games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 http://espn.go.com/b...es-to-be-rankedWords of sanity from ESPN. Rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Xavier's press conference yesterday... http://www.goxavier.com/ For those interested, click on the 'Top Videos' tab and it is the first video to load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Words of sanity from ESPN. Rare. I thought this was a good piece, too: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7343412/xavier-cincinnati-issue-race-college-basketball The refs are definitely largely to blame for this. Technicals for taunting could have come way sooner. Guys mellow out after one tech usually, not wanting the ejection and subsequent suspension. The refs looked like amateurs here and I'm sure they're having some meetings after this one. Going back in sequence, both programs and schools were careless leading up to the game (especially UC letting Kilpatrick go on the air and talk trash), the local and national media played it up to full tilt as a hate-filled rivalry, the refs set the tone from the beginning that they were inconsistent and didn't have control, neither coach did anything to tamp down the trash talking, Mack kept his studs on the floor until the closing seconds, Xavier let the trash talkers themselves do postgame interviews- it's staggering how many poor decisions led to this situation and its fallout. The one thing I will say about the sports media coverage is that next year when they play this game again (and I think they will), the same ESPN jerks who have published some of the most self-righteous editorials of late are going to milk this as a heated rivalry to drum up ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -pistol reminds me of a point i meant to make and that is with mack keeping his starters on the floor at that the end of the game with that score, what good can come of that?? another reason i believe he and his staff should all get one game -and pistol raises a great point about what will happen next year in promoting this game, heck if espn's contract is up i would not be surprised if there was a mini bidding war to get that game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -pistol reminds me of a point i meant to make and that is with mack keeping his starters on the floor at that the end of the game with that score, what good can come of that?? another reason i believe he and his staff should all get one game -and pistol raises a great point about what will happen next year in promoting this game, heck if espn's contract is up i would not be surprised if there was a mini bidding war to get that game This is something that can't be ignored. When you play up a 'blood rivalry', should you be all that surprised when it goes overboard? Apparently the local media helped let it get out of hand a bit, by pushing the comments of Kilpatrick, which then led to not only the overreaction of Tu, but by the Xavier fans as well. If anyone noticed, the X fans were chanting 'Who's Kilpatrick?' when he was on the FT line. When your fans are fired up like that towards the other team, it helps toss the gas on the fire. While it can't be used as a total excuse, you do have to look at how all of these things helped to set this situation. The hype heading into the game, the fans chanting, the refs not taking control of the game early, the X head coach allowing his starters to stay in the game during a 20+ point blowout. It all led to the perfect storm for this situation to blow up. Better, everyone can get self-righteously indignant about the further destruction of college sports and society as a whole (perfect for message boards, sports talk radio and ESPN talking heads), only to have ESPN and the Cincy media over-hype next year's game by playing up the fights and Tu's comments. Win-win all around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Couple questions I have....why were T's or warnings never instituted during the game? Players were barking all day long, what did the refs think were going to happen? Secondly, I never saw law enforcement on the court either. In my experience, these type of "bad blood" battles typically have law enforcement very, very close by. While a coach can't be blamed for not kicking a player off when his livelihood depends on wins and losses, I think a coach should be fired when the players he recruits resorts to this type of activity. It is my understanding that Yancy had had a few similar episodes in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 We can fight all day about what "gangster" means to Tu, but I just came across this flattering title http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072782/Xavier-Cincinnati-basketball-players-brawl-court.html "'We got disrespected so our gangsters went out and zipped them up': Punches thrown and suspensions threatened after crosstown basketball rivals Xavier and Cincinnati brawl on court" Just horrible, horrible PR for Xavier. You cannot defend a title like that- even if Tu meant 'gangster as tough (which I think is still the dumbest thing I have ever heard). Articles have been on Drudge Report all week, so you know millions of people who have never watched a game of College Basketball are seeing that and have made awful assumptions that Xavier is a 'gangster' school. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Couple questions I have....why were T's or warnings never instituted during the game? Players were barking all day long, what did the refs think were going to happen? Secondly, I never saw law enforcement on the court either. In my experience, these type of "bad blood" battles typically have law enforcement very, very close by. While a coach can't be blamed for not kicking a player off when his livelihood depends on wins and losses, I think a coach should be fired when the players he recruits resorts to this type of activity. It is my understanding that Yancy had had a few similar episodes in the past. -new handle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 New handle? Explain please. Longtime reader and fan, first time poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 We can fight all day about what "gangster" means to Tu, but I just came across this flattering title http://www.dailymail...rawl-court.html "'We got disrespected so our gangsters went out and zipped them up': Punches thrown and suspensions threatened after crosstown basketball rivals Xavier and Cincinnati brawl on court" Just horrible, horrible PR for Xavier. You cannot defend a title like that- even if Tu meant 'gangster as tough (which I think is still the dumbest thing I have ever heard). Articles have been on Drudge Report all week, so you know millions of people who have never watched a game of College Basketball are seeing that and have made awful assumptions that Xavier is a 'gangster' school. lol. -i have to admit i was ignorant of what 'zip them up' meant until i read the other thread on this game, unreal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 New handle? Explain please. Longtime reader and fan, first time poster. -if you are a longtime reader then it would seem you understand the reference -but i guess it goes to what longtime means -there is or was a poster with a similar name that was not really a SLU fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamarete Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 -if you are a longtime reader then it would seem you understand the reference -but i guess it goes to what longtime means -there is or was a poster with a similar name that was not really a SLU fan Sorry, I'm new...been reading for a few years. Long time coach and been a fan of the Billikens since they came to Wichita for the NCAA tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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