kevinfootes Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I could be wrong, but I think the last time SLU landed decent transfers was with guys like Jim Roder, Pee Wee Lenard, and Ted Mimlitz. I wouldn't close the door to the possibility of transfers, but there's typically a reason why they're leaving. It's not like we're talking about guys who didn't fit in at UNC or Kansas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Did you consider Reggie Bryant a decent transfer? "I was on fire, I was hotter than a pistol" Jason McElwaine If theres no SLU basketball in heaven I'm not going!!!!!! Official Billikens.com Sponsor of Chris Sloan and Billiken Volleyball and Official Billiken.com Online Video Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 I'd forgotten he was a transfer. At least he was coming from a big-time conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 He would have been one hell of a recruit though. "I was on fire, I was hotter than a pistol" Jason McElwaine If theres no SLU basketball in heaven I'm not going!!!!!! Official Billikens.com Sponsor of Chris Sloan and Billiken Volleyball and Official Billiken.com Online Video Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 ...nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlee Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I think he transferred from Miami. I forgot his name. ? Johnson??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Jamal Johnson - transfered from Miami. Nice player for one season. H Waldman was the best transfer we've had in recent years. Reggie Bryant was a close second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 .. ain't that good. And I'm counting JUCO transfers as well. We've had smaller numbers of good transfers (Roder, Waldman, Lenard, Love, Jeffers, Burns, Henderson, Newberry, Turner, Robinson, Bryant, etc.) but tons of bad and horrible transfers (Manual, Tadysak, Ivester, Causwell, Johnosn, Pedersen, Mimlitz, Malick, Frericks, Newborne, Whittenberg, Strozier, Carr, Craig, al-Mateen, etc.) I know some might argue my ranking of Johnson, Pedersen and Mimlitz and so be it. I don't consider a transfer of a one-and-done kid to be that great, no matter how well he does on the court that one year because its a stop-gap .. either your bench is exceedingly depleted or the kid came home to finish up and where were his best or better years spent? I never thought Mimlitz did much of anyhting here, let alone at Mizzou. Again, like Parcells, I'd rather cook with the groceries I bought and do it for four years than two. And never one and done. H Waldman was the greatest transfer case in my history and David Burns was second. Burns had no help at all other than Kelvin Henderson in his years here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 that is a great point kevin. and i would say unless the reason to transfer makes sense, i would stay away. team chemistry is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 You can't count Juco or for that matter prep players as transfers. That makes no sense. Secondly your lists leave off several good players, what about Dobbs? Footes? And you think Pederson was a bad transfer? C'mon, he was a solid D-1 center and started on NCAA teams. Frericks was solid as well, you can't blame he or Soderberg for injuries. Matiin and Carr were solid defensive players in down years. But once again JUCO transfers are not the same as D-1 transfers and whatever a transfer did 20-30 years ago has no bearing on what happens in our program now. Soderberg has taken a flyer on 1 true transfer Bryant, who became our best player. If a transfer is talented and fits in with the team he can help a program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I'm confused .. if I don't count JUCOs, then I don't count Dobbs. I don't think one year of Footes was that great. Same with Pedersen. Same with Jamal Johnson. I'd rather have four-year guys for sure, because a one-and-done says stop-gap to me, both for the team and the player. Did we go to the NCAAs with Pedersen? If not, then in my book, that don't count because its not BILLIKEN basketball. That's me, granted. You can beg to differ. Carr was like a JUCO All-American up in Iowa and that was as an offensive star. He came here and what happened? Sure, he may have been a solid defensive player but I'll betcha' he was recruited for his offensive game, not his defense. My point is this, given my druthers, I'd rather stay away from the transfers for the most part, leaving the door open to a Reggie Bryant type and that is all. I've always felt that JUCO's were gap pluggers anyway and I still feel that way today. I have no problem with prep players like HD. Its worth a shot just like taking a Knollmeyer is. Both give you the potential of four years so I'd go that route eight times out of ten. Just my preference, that is all. So in the cliche, "those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it," what part do I ignore after 30 years of BILLIKEN history as far as transfers and JUCOs are concerned? Sure, there are some that are worth it. That means research and scouting and talent evaluation are key. Jut a note, my list wasn't meant to be comprehensive. Just the ramblings of an incoherent fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 I'm pretty rusty here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I don't know if my post deserved that much sarcasm in a response but whatever. YOu can't compare JUCOs and "transfers" simply because you have a recruiting season for JUCOs, there is no such thing for transfers. You are barred from contacting them, they have to contact you. Coaches choose JUCOs they want to take on and recruit, D-1 transfers choose the teams they they want to play on without any recruiting pushes from coaches. Two entirely different things. Like any recruit what you posted is sound, you have to find a person talented enough to play yet also fit in within your team construct. Still a transfer may be a short term, but on the other hand you have a better idea what you are getting and if that player can compete on this level. A nicely timed transfer can put a team over the top for a year or two. 4 examples are H, who without him we aren't a tourney team, Pederson, who anchored our inside game when all other alternatives were the 6'6 admiral and 6'6 majician, Reggie Bryant who was a perfect scoring complemet in the backcourt to defensive minded Fischer, if not for injuries he might have put us in the tourney the next season. And from our old rival Mizzou. Remember Paul O'Liney? He saw the Tigers get whupped by 60 against Arkansas and decided he could probably help that team. He began playing after the winter break and turned that team around making them a top 25 tourney team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 O'Liney did join the team mid-year, but he was a juco transfer. He wasn't playing for any team; he was just sitting around. Are you confusing him with Jason Conley, who was a D-I transfer who joined Mizzou in the midst of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Evan was on the 93-94 team that went to the NCAA Tournament. He was kind of a different situation too, because he left Northwestern to take his Mormon mission and then came to SLU when he returned. BTW, I think he's now the coach at St. Louis College of Pharmacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 .. I reread my post and can assure you that no sarcasm was used whatsoever in responding to yours. I am sorry if you took it that way. I find the two-dimensional very difficult to fathom if you're trying to interpret what's in there. If I use sarcasm or things I usually capitalize for emphasis or add the (wink,wink) to alert folks. I don't see where I did that in there. I am certain in my beliefs as stated in the post. Its just an opinion. Your comment about a recruiting season for JUCOs is true. No argument here. But when is it? When do most sign? I would offer in the spring. Why? Because in my mind, they are indeed stop gaps. You didn't get who you wanted in the open period so now you're shopping around tring to fill the voids left in that roster. Seems to be the case in BILLIKEN basketball and it is my opinion that it doesn't work most times. Sure, sure, some JUCOs go inthefall signing period, I agree. But htose are usually the studs like Pete Mickell or Larry Johnson or Steve Francis. While the rest may be either leftovers or guys improving their lot based on the recent season past, so be it. I still think most are stop gaps. Most D1 to D1 transfers in our history have been guys coming home. Lenard. Johnson. Pedersen. Mimlitz. Roder. In rare cases, do we get a guy who means much. I'd name H. Reggie. Josh. Josh came because of Romar. I can't speak to the other two although I've heard rumors and explanationa. All I'm saying is that personally, I don't like it. That's all. The debate can rage on. As for the sarcasm, I apologize. But I stand by that it was not meant as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Pederson played out of position like Leuchtefeld; and he gave 100% and was more effective than Luck; we have had coaches like Grawer and Spoon who rarely could recruit or coach big men; Frerichs was out with a concussion-otherwise a decent contributor with talent; I did not see Stemler but probably similar? Kevin Footes was a transfer from UMKC and the kid played against Rich Grawer and the other nine players on the floor and would still take over the game-Grawer just couldn't stand a guy that tall and talented going end to end and jamming the ball off a steal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 or a Juco could be to fill an immediate need that a freshman usually can't. Justin Love wasn't a stop gap ... we'd have taken him regardless ... I don't know the history or the personal decisions of our Juco's but I wouldn't call them stop gaps. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 >Jut a note, my list wasn't meant to be comprehensive. Just the >ramblings of an incoherent fan. I thought some of your self deprecation was implying I thought you were some sort of idiot and was knocking your opinions. This is far from the case you are obviously a respected and knowlegdable poster on the board. No harm done, I minsinterpreted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 You are right, I wasn't confusing him with Conley, I mistakenly remembered O'Liney as first going to D-1 then JUCO then Mizzou. He only went to JUCO. He was idle when he watched Mizzzou get pummelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 No harm no foul ... I just like to set the record straight if there's a misinterpretation. Most of my real diatribes are for the the likes of Vee and Putz-zie. As for skip above this, I still believe that in most instances, JUCOs are stop gaps in this program more than in others. Sure, there will always be a Justin Love or a Donnie Dobbs or a Mo Jeffers. But I'd also like to pointout that those were recruits done by a different staff in a different era. All I'm sayign is that past history what it is, and given Brad's recent history, I don't see JUCOs as anything more right now. Reggie Bryant was a good get, but I'd venture that he initiated the move from Nova, not us. And again, short of kids coming home to finish up, Saint Louis University is not a destination of choice. Again, there are exceptions to every rule (H Waldman) but the volume of evidence I believe supports my claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Purely opinionated .... and you're entitled to that. Of course, Footes never went to UMKC but so what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I guess it depends on what you call a stopgap ... If we get a juco 4 that can start and be productive ... I'll call it a nice addition to the team ... not a stop gap. but your point is taken ... I just don't completely agree Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 as with everything in life, no blanket statement fits. Sure a transfer may work, and if it was the right guy "a hard worker who reads the writing on the wall at Wisconsin and says I will not be a starter on this team, I made a mistake I want to go to a different school" and have the chance to be a starter in two or three years..... and he fits in personality wise with the team then sure take the chance. But to say we should take any transfer like a Justin Cerasoli (sp?) who is cutting out on two different schools, one in mid season? Alarm bells should be ringing here,,,,,who needs a terrell owens on the team.....I would have to be convinced on character issues that he would be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 GO - If you are refering to Jeff Leutefield being worse then Evan Pederson then I would have to disagree. Jeff was a very good shooter his junior and senior years. In fact he carried the team his senior year. Pederson was serviceable but he never reached the promise he showed at Northwestern or when he was in high school once he came back after his Mission leave of absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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