recruiting

[billiken_roy]

saw these two stories at the fox sports web page that were interesting. first, sampson f'ing with the illini's already verballed eric gordon. sure nothing counts until november when the official loi is signed, but most coaches will respect verbal commits. apparently not sampson.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/5794850

the next one is a little scary imo. it has to do with kentucky fans leaving "myspace" messages for a potential wildcat recruit. as has been stated here at billikens.com, fans cannot get involved in recruiting. and now kentucky has had to self report an infraction to the ncaa because the kentucky fans tried to contact this particular recruit.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/5801302?FSO1&ATT=HMA

[Pistol]

This is a scary new dynamic to recruiting. Pretty much every current player on the SLU roster is on facebook.com, and a few of them have myspace.com pages as well. As for the players we're currently recruiting, the Facebook is now open to most high schools, and it wouldn't be surprising if a number of guys we're recruiting are registered there and at MySpace. A lot of athletes are using it for the additional exposure, and these websites do include contact information for anyone who chooses to publish it.

I would imagine we'll be hearing many more similar stories to this in the future, and the NCAA probably needs to address this in some fashion. I think most people on here have the respect not to interfere with our staff's recruiting process, but what's to stop fans from getting in the way? If a kid has his own MySpace page and contact info online, then nothing.

[cheeseman]

The Sampson story is interesting - it caused me to remember when Woolard was replacing Spoon, it was rumored that he had called Sampson (apparently they are friends) about the job. It was rumored then that Sampson was playing fast and loose with the rules. Sampson grabbing Lance Stemler, while upsetting was not against the rules. So, to bang on him about that is not fair. Now this issue with Weber is another matter - however, one can only secretly wish that he and Weber really get into it and start a nasty recruiting war - that possibly would help us stave off any further intrusions into our area. I guess Sampson clearly does not care if other coaches do the same to him. Interesting that there had been reports that Huggins would always back off once a committment was given to another team - so as low as some hold him he at least has some scrupples.

Now the other article - that is interesting because I am not sure how you combat that - who is going to be the Internet Nazi for the NCAA? - nobody. The best way to handle this is to educate the kids - high school coaches and parents and make sure they understand all the problems they can get into if they participate.

[slu72]

Cheeseman, Huggins may have done that in the past, but ask his good friend Bobby Lutz, who gave him a stirring testimonial at his going away party, what he thinks of Huggy bear these days. Huggy's trying to steal the Beasely kid away, top 10, by hiring Charlotte's AC. Sampson, Stemler case excluded, is a proven rule breaker and has no morals when it comes to recruiting. I'm still surprised IU hired him, he seems beneath their tradition.

[cheeseman]

First of all, I forgot about the UNCC issue - but if I am not mistaken, that kid was always tied to the AC. Once Lutz lost the AC - you can not blame the AC for going for more money - he lost the kid. I think it is one thing to hire an AC and then have that person bring a player with him then to simply just go after a kid already committed. By the way, the kid connected with UNCC was the one who reopened his recruiting. This has not happened - at least yet - with IN kid.

[billiken_roy]

lutz only lost the assistant coach though because of the the player. no matter how you look at this, huggy looks dirty imo.

[kshoe]

given the anonimity that is most of cyperspace what is to stop a huge Mizzou fan from going to a potential KU recruit's cyperspace, acting like a KU fan and and thus getting KU in trouble. (Obviously the school names could be any two rivals).

[Pistol]

And that's exactly the type of thing the NCAA needs to address. Everyone gets exploited in these situations.

[billiken_roy]

or worse than that, a dirty coach posing as a fan. and anyone that doesnt think that when this came to light this past week desparate coaches were considering just that is naive imo.

realistically, i am not sure there is an answer to controlling these nasty scenario's.

[slufanskip]

I believe you have to be a booster ... If Joe Blow emails something to a recruit ... and he has no ties to the university, how can that be wrong, and how could a school possibly control that

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

[NashvilleBilliken]

That's really the problem...it can't be controlled. Here's an (extreme) example. I register a yahoo account as Fr. Biondi. I fill in all my information as if I'm father Biondi. I'm a Xavier student from St. Louis home for the summer with a vendetta against SLU. I start emailing the potential recruit under this fake moniker. All information is pointing toward Biondi. I even use a SLU internet connection because I know somebody here for the summer so my IP is traced to the SLU campus. How does the NCAA know who I am or better yet, know that Fr. Biondi isn't the real culprit?

Obviously that's a crazy example as a university president won't be emailing recruits, but the same premise applies.

[slu72]

I don't know what you have to be to get in trouble...if anything other than a school official. But a fan going on a kid's website...my face...or whatever is really no different than the fan the kid meets at a Walmart and says, "hey, you're not really going to Kentucky are you?" Or whatever else he hears from fans of other schools. How's the NCAA going to stop that? But Broy brings up a good point...I'll lay you a 1,000 to 1 AC's and probably even some HC's monitor recruits' sites and pose as fans...Hell, I wouldn't put anything past a lot of these coaches when it comes to landing a prize recruit. Some of 'em would prostitute their own wives and mothers for a blue chipper.

[cheeseman]

Roy, the kid not say I want to go to KState so take the AC from UNCC. Huggins approached the AC and the AC came and brought the player with him. I understand that Huggins would not have approached the AC if it had not been for the player. What makes Huggins culpable in this case is that he screwed his friend - Lutz.

[billiken_roy]

no skip, read the article. there is no mention of a booster. just kentucky fans.

[Billiphan]

If I remember correctly. I could have sworn that there were people from this board who brought up KL's Facebook or MySpace site. I can't remember if they posted on his site or not but I know it was discussed on here. Not saying it was wrong but I know all this happened while he was still in high school.

[billiken_roy]

no phan, it was not until kevin was at slu. i am positive about this. kevin lisch was not on the internet prior to attending slu. guaranteed.

[Taj79]

I recall some fans ... maybe it was Xavier folks ... going on Danny Brown's and JJ's MySpace or whatever. I seem to recall it being posted over on the A10 chat book. I do recall the Lisch episode and it was on here but it was someone talking about Lisch's sister and maybe posting some things on there that might entice her brother to firm up to SLU. At least that's what I remember.

If broy says Lisch wasn't on it until college, I find it hard to believe but if anyone knows the Lisch family more than SLU coaching staff, I'm pretty sure its roy.

I think the key here is as someone puts it that the person making contact has to have some more tangible connection to the school than just as a booster. The guy that got nailed for the Rush's AAU team .. he was a KU grad with money and the impression I got was that while it was not exactly illegal, the perception was that it was.

Its a tough world .. electronics and technological advances being what they are. I don't think it can be policed properly .... I mean if there is no "else" in "stop it or else," what are you going to do? It reminds me of Robin Williams Live at the Met skit when he talks about English cops not having guns and yelling "stop or else ... or else I'll yell stop again."

[NashvilleBilliken]

Not on the internet? I think that may be going a little far. If Altoff doesn't have a computer learning program, including internet education, I'd be suprised and pretty disappointed.

I think what Phan is referring to is something between JJ, and Kevin and/or his sister that was on facebook/myspace...i can't remember the details.

[3star_recruit]

I think BRoy's point may have been that KL didn't have a page on facebook/myspace in high school. He currently has one on facebook through SLU's network.

[billiken_roy]

exactly. the incident that phan is referencing was after kevin was at slu already and graduated from althoff.

[Pistol]

Facebook wasn't available to high schools until Fall 2005, when KL would have been in his first semester at SLU. The situation involved KL while he was here and his sister while still in high school and the Facebook was brand new for high schools- it was originally college-only, spread throughout most colleges, and has since begun to include most high schools.

[BleacherBum593]

SLU72 - Here's the guidelines from the Billiken Club Page at SLU. In addition, I remember from a mailing, that as a season ticket holder we would be held accountable to the rules as a representative of the University.

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NCAA Booster Guidelines

Are You A Representative Of The University's Athletics Interest?

You are considered a "Representative of the University's Athletics Interests" (a booster) if you:

Are or have been a member of any organization promoting the SLU Athletics Departments.

Have ever made a donation to the Athletics Departments, to a men's or women's athletic program, or to any booster organization.

Have ever assisted in evaluating or recruiting prospects.

Have ever helped to arrange or have provided employment to enrolled student-athletes, prospects, or a prospect's parents or relatives.

Have promoted the University's athletics programs.

Once you become a Representative of the University's Athletics Interests, YOU retain this status FOREVER!

As a "Representative of the University's Athletics Interests," you are bound by NCAA, C-USA and Saint Louis University rules. Saint Louis University is RESPONSIBLE for your actions!

Five Rules Of Thumb For Friends Of SLU Athletics:

(1) Only coaches and athletic department staff members can be involved in the recruiting process.

(2) A prospect remains a prospect even after signing a National Letter of Intent or financial aid agreement to attend the University. The prospect's status does not change until initial full-time enrollment at the University or until the prospect begins official team practice immediately prior to the start of classes.

(3) Do not provide any "extra benefits" or make special arrangements for the prospect or to an enrolled student-athlete.

(4) You can assist the coaching staff in the recruiting process by notifying them of any student you think would be a strong addition to the institution's athletic program. The coach can then make the appropriate contact with the prospect.

(5) As an athletics representative, you are not precluded from continuing friendships with the families of prospective or enrolled student-athletes. You simply cannot encourage a prospect's participation in a specific institution's athletics program or provide benefits to student-athletes that you were not providing before they became prospects or enrolled student-athletes.