aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 for defamation of character, unless Jessica admits that she lied. It would be too difficult to prove. Even if she saw Ricky with a huge sum of cash, she still doesn't know for sure where he got it. Who knows? He could have received it from another girlfriend or another friend or even his aunt in North Carolina. This would be a grey area, but what if he received it from a teammate like Josh Kroenke. Would that still be a violation? Of course, this would be immoral in my book since it can be inferred that the money came from a booster, but can't players receive benefits from someone if there is a prior relationship involved. Would being a teammate of a player be defined as a prior relationship? I have no idea, but just curious if this scenario actually occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 New stuff coming out every day, this is not going away for Pretty Boy. Sanctions, probabtion, death penalty, who knows but it is coming down for Mizzou. All the notriety they have gained and advances on the court will grind to a halt. I would like to see SLU be the best missouri bball program by beating mizzou but this is almost as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Knock yourself out. Life is short, you have to take your pleasures wherever you can find them, no matter how pathetic they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBand Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 about who (if anyone) has been visiting Clemons in the pokey since all this has developed. Those jailhouse visits might lead to more evidence. Is it just his lawyer (Bley who was paid by Mizzou), is it family, friends, friends of the program? If you are Clemons, do you pull a Tony Cole and blab to the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Torch, I am interested in this as well, but let me make it clear I do not want Mizzou to get the death penalty, but if the MU BBall boys are not playing by the rules, I want them nailed. I hope Alden gets a grip on things and hurries up with their investigation, they need to self reprimand soon or the death penalty is an option. MU fans: while as a past time I find this interesting, I feel for the MU fans who are having their possible shining moment ie Final Four yanked out from under thier feet. I think this is not just Odom though and I hope the evidence makes that clear. Quin need more than a slap on the wrist for his part in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 basketbill said, "I feel for the MU fans who are having their possible shining moment ie Final Four yanked out from under thier feet." my only response to that is that i would suspect that the tigers wouldnt even be sniffing that level of success if not for pretty q's cheating. anyone that believes that q's shenanigans were confined to just ricky clemons is being naive imo. but the reality is, with the underlying thought in mind that the team was built corruptly, is it a shining moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 There's no doubt, with your hatred of Mizzou, that you believe Quin Snyder and Missouri is blatantly dirty. You WANT them to be discovered as dirty cheats. If Missouri is cheating, it deserves everything it gets, but I hope that it's not a case of cheating, but of a few mistakes and one bad apple (Clemons) who thought he could get away with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 ...you've already made up in your mind that if Clemons corroborates Bunge's story it's the truth, but if he denies it, he's lying? I wish I had your foreknowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 One concern I have is that when we talk about others around town coming forward to say that they had seen RC spending money regularly or whatever, who would want to risk their business by coming forward, especially in a relatively small town like Columbia. Or how about a waiter, what would their life be like trying to live and work in Columbia if their name got out? It may be relatively hard to get Columbia residents to substantiate some of these stories. It should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 i think we will be surprised at the motivation of 15 minutes of fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 So what you're saying is that even if NO ONE corroborates Jessica Bunge's stories of Clemons' extravagant spending and receiving improper excessive academic assistance, it's not because Bunge is wrong or has been misled but because they're all afraid for some reason or another to come forward? Some SLU fans have already made up their minds that Missouri is guilty, just as some Mizzou fans have already made up their minds that Missouri is innocent of these charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 -January 16, 2003 Ricky Clemmons is accused of assaulting a women and is suspended (for what everyone assumed would be indefinitely). -Saturday, January 18, 2003 a Clemmonsless Mizzou loses by 20 to Oklahoma State. -Monday, January 20, 2003 Snyder and Alden reinstate Ricky (after suspending him only one game), stating that Ricky claims to be innocent, and they support his claims. -March 22, 2003 Mizzou is knocked out of the tournament. -April 21, Ricky--who Snyder believed to be innocent in January after Mizzou was blown out--PLEADS GUILTY to assualt charges. -July 4, 2003 The President of the University of Missouri system invites Clemmons, a convicted woman beater who was serving a house arrest, to a party. Conclusion: Snyder, Alden, and the University will cut corners and lie in order to preserve the eligibility of an admitted women beater who has a nice crossover and outside shot. This conclusion can be reached without even considering the alleged illegal academics, illegal gifts, and illegal cash. I am embarrassed for Mizzou to be my state school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 one bad apple that thought he could get away with anything? thicks, i would like to point out that this whole scenario is not clemons stealing, but rather clemons accepting illegal payments and goods. i.e. clemons isnt the guilty one on these issues, the giver, whomever that might be, is the guilty one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Actually, as much as I could not stand Mizzou in basketball under Norm Stewart...I am not jumping up for joy with these revelations. Under Snyder, I saw them as a rival with a rivlary that would last for a long time. If this proves to be true then Mizzou will be in for some NCAA probation time...perhaps stiff penalties. Could there be another Big 12 school looking for a HC before October? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Mr. Money bags Laurie fit into this equation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Not at all...ever been to Columbia, MO Thicks? I have. It isn't exactly a big metroplis, as has been suggested, it will be fairly simple to prove many of these allegations, if they did happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 thicks, your black & gold blood is truly showing in this instance. You state, "I hope it's not a case of cheating, but a few mistakes and one bad apple (Clemons)...." Apparently, if you like the coach or the program the wrongdoings are "mistakes". If you don't like the coach or the program the wrongdoings equate to "cheating". I'm also somewhat surprised that you call RC the "one bad apple who thought he could get away with anything", and don't see anyone or two on the coaching staff as an equally bad apples who think they can get away with anything. I would wager a large sum that RC got money from an UM assistant while he was at Southern Idaho junior college. I can never prove it, but it happened as sure as hell! Remember thicks, nothing personal, just college bball talk (the ugly side)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Or it could be a case of Ricky Clemons brandishing an outlaw image to impress one of his girlfriends, pretending that his NCAA-permissible rent and meal money was ill-gotten gain. After all, Bunge told the newspaper that Ricky said he could get away with anything. I don't know that's the case, but I would prefer that to the idea that Qun Snyder and any member of his staff would be so STUPID as to have players apply to Hearnes Center for their illegal payments. I don't condone ANY cheating, but I would hope that if one cheated, they wouldn't do it so much in the open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 If Missouri is cheating (i.e., they made illegal payments to Clemons), then they deserve to be punished (and the basketball program should be cleaned out from Mike Alden all the way down), but if it's just a case of Clemons pulling the wool over Bunge's eyes to have this "romantic" outlaw image (i.e., he tells her he can get away with anything) and pretending that money he received by NCAA-permissible means was ill-gotten gain, then it was just a MISTAKE by Snyder in recruiting such a bad apple. The other things that I HOPE were mistakes and not blatant cheating include the gift of apparel and the improper plane flights for the parents of Paulding and Johnson. I think they definitely cheated to get Conley, but the NCAA has reinstated him and is still determining Missouri's punishment in that issue. FYI, I don't have black-and-gold blood. That was a ridiculous assertion. I did not attend Mizzou OR Saint Louis. I'm a fan of Missouri and of SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Defend them both to the death Thicks. Mizzou has soiled their pearly white sheets. Why in God's name are you doing the laundry???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 It does look rather striking doesn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 I read the story and I believed everything Ms. Bunge said until, "but a lot of it was really nice Brooks Brothers stuff (referring to clothing gifts from Quin to Clemons)." No black dude from Southern Cali is going to wear Brooks Brothers clothes. If I'm the defense attorney for Scandal Plagued University of Missouri At Columbia (SPUMAC) I would focus on that point. I love college athletics but not at the expense of the integrity of individuals and institutions. I understand mistakes are made and we all have flaws. Some are just much more flawed than others. Maybe Snyder could save his job by defending his own program in court pro bono. He could put his knowledge of the law and rules to use it is pretty evident he hasn't yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentFLBilliken Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 I have seen you take beatings from the myopic brethren on the Tigerboard several times for trying to be reasonable. How could you possibly defend them? I think those 24 credit hours over the summer told me all that I needed to know about Quin Snyder's ethics. I haven't been surprised about anything since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Ricky Clemons is from North Carolina, not Southern California. Does that change your opinion of Jessica Bunge's credibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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