BLIKNS Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 http://www.cincypost.com/2003/07/15/lonnie07-15-2003.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 This is the second or third time I have seen the argument that SLU should be left out of the new conference because it is "west of the Mississippi." Have any of these commentators looked at a map or visited St. Louis? Our home court is less than a mile from the Mississipi. Since when does the Mississippi affect conferences? This is not the 18th century. We have bridges and airplanes that enable people to cross the river. A flight from St. Louis to the east coast is only a few minutes longer than a flight from Chicago or Milwaukee. I also find it funny to see commentators from the eastern time zone assume that the Missouri Valley Conference is the best place for SLU. Why would SLU, which is a private institution that is in the process of building a $70 million arena, belong in a conference primarily composed of non-flagship public institutions? This author worries about seeing DePaul and Southern Miss in the same conference but suggests that SLU is best suited for a conference with Northern Iowa and Wichita State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 The guy's take on SLU got under my skin so much, I fired off an e-letter to him: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] From: Terrance Hicks Subject: "Making sense of the conference mess" column Lonnie, Thanks a lot for caring about the Saint Louis University program and its fans. By "sending" it to the mid-major Missouri Valley Conference, you are basically destroying our hopes of rising in prominence and becoming a top 50 program. For more than 15 years SLU has been in the same conference with your Cincinnati Bearcats or your Xavier Musketeers. Why, all of a sudden, is SLU a good fit with the Missouri Valley, which never gets more than two teams into the NCAA Tournament and usually gets only one? I guess you're still mad that Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the C-USA Tourney game against SLU in 2000. Well, it's not rational to blame SLU for that. You hit the nail on the head at the end of your column when you said, "Which, of course, means squat." Then again, I thought most of your ideas for realignment were good, except for putting SLU in the Missouri Valley and putting Marshall in the conference of Big East defectors over Connecticut (what happens to the Huskies in your perfect realignment, anyway -- they disappear into oblivion?). Terrance Hicks St. Louis, Missouri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 UConn of course is going to be a football team (there is no going back now as the state spent mega millions to build a stadium). Hell, next year they are a BCS team. The guy did not even bother to check his basic facts. Of course, he took a sarcastic tone in a lot of the article and probably uses that to cover any big research lapses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Clearly, he misses the point that Memphis and St. Louis are basically located similarily. The fact of the matter is that St. Louis would be the only major city market that is in the Valley so it makes no sense even using his logic to put the Bills there. Has anyone thought that the A10 might decide to change their name which would make it easier for them to pick up teams west of Ohio which might make it easier to justify for geographically challenged reporters like him to see more options. By the way, since when is Ohio - Dayton and Xavier geographically tied to anything that has Atlantic in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Lonnie Wheeler of the Cincy Post responded to my e-mail. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Terrance, I'm from St. Louis, so believe me that I don't have any bias against the Billikens. It's just that I couldn't in good conscience put them in the Big East. After all, St. Louis is the Gateway to the WEST. Besides, I love the Missouri Valley. I really loved it back when it included St. Louis, UC, Louisville, Bradley, Drake, Wichita, etc. As for leaving UConn out of the Former Big East, that was inadvertent. I mistakenly omitted UConn from the text and Boston College from the accompanying chart (which included UConn). That would make 11 schools, and it might mean that Marshall should be moved to the ACC. One more point about St. Louis and the Big East. It's unlikely that the Big East would admit St. Joseph's as a second Philadelphia school. That would open things up for St. Louis. It's just that I prefer geographic integrity. Lonnie Wheeler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I wrote back. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lonnie, Thank you for taking the time to respond. I understand your point about geographic integrity, but I must rebut. 1. Few conferences have "geographic integrity" these days. Modern travel has broken barriers and expanded boundaries. 2. St. Louis is in the physical eastern half of the country, with room to spare. It's not any further west than Memphis, and it's not much further west than Chicago (DePaul) and Milwaukee (Marquette). 3. Look at Major League Baseball. Back when there were just two divisions in the National League, St. Louis was in the EAST with Chicago, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and New York (Mets), and no one had a problem. Yes, I know that Atlanta was in the West when the Braves moved there from Milwaukee, but even Cincinnati is slightly further west than Atlanta. 4. You say that St. Louis is the "Gateway to the WEST." I say that it is the Gateway TO the West. In other words, just because it is the gateway doesn't mean it's actually IN the West. I agree that the Missouri Valley is a nice conference, but it doesn't suit the Billikens and the aspirations of the SLU program. Consider the makeup of the conference. The schools are primarily lower-rung state universities and/or are in minor markets. SLU really has nothing in common with the vast majority of Valley schools. Furthermore, moving to the MVC would bring SLU's program down. The Valley doesn't get enough exposure, talent, or at-large Tourney bids to be appealing to SLU or its fans. What do you think about Cincinnati's going back to the Missouri Valley now? Lastly, I'm glad you acknowledge the likelihood that the Big East would consider SLU over St. Joseph's. If you really want to kick it around with SLU fans, come check out the messageboard at http://www.billikens.com for a hot minute. Terrance Hicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 the guy loses all credibility when he puts marshall in the acc. forget him, he is an obvious idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Bulldog Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 The Missouri Valley Conference is the backbone of the United States of America! Sorry to hear your all down on the Valley ..... from what I understand your a little like Wichita State from the standpoint that your really not as big a deal as you all think you are! I think SLU ran from the Valley before because they were afraid and I think you still are. Come back home for a true rump kicking. In the past few years I've heard a heck of a lot more in national media about Southern Illinois and Creighton than I have about SLU ..... good luck. come and visit us at www.valleytalk.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I can't believe a Drake Bulldog came and pooped smack on the Billikens fan board. Pure, putrid smack. How can a fan of a team ranked 259 in the RPI talk smack with anyone? Well, anyone other than Grinnell! 162-110! What level is Grinnell, Div. III? Was Grinnell Drake's only guarantee game last season, or is Drake unwilling to take a winter trip to Florida to play Florida Atlantic? Well, maybe Dr. Tom Davis's condescension will help put Drake on the map. I notice that not only did Drake get swept by Southern Illinois (which SLU beat) and SMS, but they also got swept by the very Wichita State team this poster put down. Hey, I don't have anything against the Valley, though I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it the backbone of the USA (that's almost as funny as my Dad's recent joke that if the ACC and Big East merged, the new conference would almost be as good as his Ohio University's Mid-American Conference -- and even he couldn't say that with a straight face!). It's just that SLU aspires to bigger and better things, and membership in the MVC would seriously hamper that. Yes, Creighton and Southern Illinois have been pretty good recently, but not to the extent that we desire of the Billikens, and their run is sure to end soon (unlike Gonzaga). It hurts SIU that Bruce Weber left for Illinois (see, we don't want SLU to be just another step in a head coach's way up), and it's probable that Dana Altman, who's coached in the Big 8, may look to leave Creighton when the appropriate opportunity arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GashouseGang Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I'm sure you won't like a Mizzou fan pooping any smack either, but I'm from the St. Louis Area and do not consider myself an Easterner by any stretch of the imagination. St. Louis IS the Gateway to the West, and Missouri is most definitely a Western state. I think SLU would be much better suited for the MO Valley Conference, but am not surprised by St. Louisans' typically big city attitude, where they tend to look down on and disown the rest of the state. SLU should be able to clean up in the MO Valley Conference anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 OH MY GOODNESS! For the sake of putting SLU down, a Missourian arbitrarily claims that Missouri is a western state. When was the last time you took a look at a map of the United Sates? Find one, draw a line from north to south HALFway across the lower 48 states. Now, where is St. Louis (and all of the state of Missouri, for that matter) in relation to that line? Hello! It's east of it. If anything, you could divide the continuous U.S. into thirds, and Missouri is a central state. Still St. Louis is closer to the east coast than to the west coast. If Marquette and DePaul (both in the central U.S.) get to play in a conference with East Coast schools with similar philosophies, then it's reasonable for SLU to also play in that conference. Being a gateway means you're not in something, but objects pass through you to get somewhere. If St. Louis is the Gateway to the West (and it is, traditionally), then it means people pass through it to get to the West. By the same token, people traveling in the opposite direction would pass through the Gateway to get to the East. That MUST be so. So St. Louis is right on that border as the gateway. Considering that many of the students and fans of SLU live in Illinois, on the EAST side of the Gateway, SLU has every bit as much right to align itself with the East as with the West. Where in my post did I put down the rest of the State of Missouri? I said that St. Louis is located in a major market but nearly all of the Missouri Valley schools are located in minor markets. I know you don't want to accept this, because you're a Missouri fan who couldn't care less about SLU, but being banished to the MVC would be 10 steps backward for SLU's program. SLU would not clean up in the Valley because its talent would fall into equilibrium with the caliber of talent of the teams in the conference (mid-major). The top-notch players want to play for big-time schools that have big-time schools on the schedule and are on television several times per year. In the Missouri Valley, SLU would rarely host big-time schools (attendance would drop dramatically), and its television exposure would be nil. If you can't see these things, then you're naive, ignorant about Div. I sports, or blinded by hatred of or ambivalence towards SLU. By the way, unlike most of the posters here, I'm about as big of a fan of the Missouri Tigers as I am of the Billikens, so please don't try to counter by saying I just hate Mizzou. Other than that, welcome to Billikens.com, GashouseGang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I seriously doubt that if, and when, SLU is forced to look for a new conference that Fr. Biondi has his sights set on the MVC. No way, no how, do I see that happening anytime in our future. SLU has it's sights set on bigger and better conference affiliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I would certainly beg to differ with your retort. There is a different attitude in St. Louis as opposed to Kansas City or Cape Girardeau or wherever. Note that I said "different", not better, worse or anything else. While St. Louis is not geographically on the East coast, the attitude of the city is certainly more Eastern than Western. As to St. Louisan's "looking down on and [disowning] the rest of the state," I again disagree. While living in a rural area is different than living and working in the city, I don't see it as some substandard way of life. IMHO, people are too eager to slap labels on conduct, attitudes etc. without more just to try to make a point. In the end, who really cares how far east St. Louis is versus west? The Big East label, is just that. Does CUSA really represent the entire USA? NO Does the Big Ten have ten teams? NO Big deal. Get over it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalukisIn2003 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Can someone please tell me SLU's recent NCAA tourney history? I suppose I haven't been following our neighbors to the west too much lately. Thanks in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluer Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 May I point out that Cincinnati is the Queen City of the WEST (nicknamed by Horace Greeley). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Maybe we should be known as "The Big Easty" :7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 '94 lost to Maryland in the first round. '95 lost to Wake Forest in the second round (beat Minn. in the first round). '97 lost to Kentucky (eventual champion) in the second round (beat Mass. in the first round). '00 lost to Utah in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 >'95 lost to Wake Forest in the second round (beat Minn. in >the first round). Wasn't that "lost to Tim Duncan in the second round" ? They also had Childress that year, but the rest of the teams was not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 If the Big East expands its size and adds a bunch of football and basketall teams then I like "Bigger East". If the Big East loses its football teams and expands to places like Cincy, Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis-- then I like "Big Rustbelt". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Bulldog Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 SLU is a mid major and will always be a mid major. The MVC is going to be your new home .. like ot or not that is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 i have always been curious, just who does a program that is as low as the likes of drake, schedule as their buy games? my gosh, there isnt much lower rpi teams to choose from is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Even know that Drake was still D-1. Seriously, are they? When was the last time that sorry a$$ program even had a sniff of a post season tourney. I'm surprised that they would have ANY fans, let alone one brash enough to come around trash talkin on our board. At least get into a meaningful tourney in the next millenium before coming to this board again...loser! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 >>I'm surprised that they would have ANY fans, let alone one brash enough to come around trash talkin on our board.<< Yeah, this Drake guy coming onto our board talking trash is just hillarious. It must be a joke? Like a Chi. Cubs fan coming to Busch to talk trash during a Cubs-Cards game. You just laugh and tell the dude to have another beer ... which advice he gladly takes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.