Lance Stemler

[TheA_Bomb]

"I would like to see an upgrade in point guard recruiting as a top priority." -Courtside 2/23/2006 Previously This Thread

I have trouble with reading comprehension? Top Priority usually means #1, most important....you know the TOP PRIORITY. Like Priority Mail or Priority Seating or Priority Parking.

C-side you're probably a pretty smart guy but one of those guys that lacks common sense.

[courtside]

Actually no, I said "a"...you were even kind enough to post it for me, albeit without the rest of the info in it, as in the other areas.

Obviously other posters have commented on your inability to let facts get in the way of your conclusions. Judging by reading their posts, it has been a long pattern for you. A + g = C for you.

Conveniently you didn't copy an entire post, merely part of one, and you still manage to get it wrong and continue your pattern. If you have some sort of sick fascination for me from left field, that's fine. This board seems to be full of that these days.

Should we hold class so little Abomb learns the difference between the word "a" and "the"? I seriously hope you are a small child, because no grown adult could continue to make up "facts" and repeat them over and over again as you have done on multiple threads....and then beleive them to not only be true but the basis of their premise.

Sure why let facts get in the way of anything. You did this in the baseball post, and now this post. Other posters have apparently called you out on this more than once.

If you want to keep embarrassing yourself, keep posting. It is quite the laugh. Couldn't have laughed any harder reading your post when you actually decided to take the time to pull a quote, reply, and then proceed to not only exclude the rest of it, but actually read it, and get it wrong, yet again. I honestly laughed very hard, but then I felt sorry for you because my guess is you are a grown adult that has once again fallen through the cracks of the educational system. But, you chose to attack me on this thread for no reason, and for that you should suffer the embarrassment you are receiving.

You can let it go and save even more embarrassment or keep posting, that right is entirely up to you.

[cheeseman]

Lets get back to the topic - the question is simple: When IV graduates do we have a suitable center replacement? BH as of now may not be it. So do we have a better chance of replacing IV with two good PF - it seems we might be able to do that rather than find another good center. Therefore, while I understand the arguements being made for another pg - I wonder if in the short term if we are not better off trying to get the best 2 PF we can and hope between Obi and them that when IV leaves they can pick up the standard. We will need to recruit a pg the following year for sure - at least in my opinion.

[courtside]

Cheese, I would agree with you that it doesn't really matter if its pf or c. Quality big men who can play inside are hard to find. I would take the best available player(s) at either spot in coming years. Improving athleticism, while maintaining size...someboday who can play back to the basket and rebound. I just mentioned in order for SLU to turn the corner they needed those three things imo...having some of them will improve the team, sure, and some is better than nothing.

[billiken_roy]

i am really missing something. other than h waldman, i dont think we have ever had more talented point guard candidates for the program than lisch and liddell. i just dont see how you think we dont have the position covered.

[cheeseman]

Roy, I agree with you - the reason I said the following year we need to look for a pg is that that kid would be a freshman when TL and KL are juniors and he would have a chance to take over in their senior year. Both TL and KL can play outside of the pg role and still very successful.

[courtside]

Roy,

I can understand you want Liddell to get as many touches as possible, therefore, especially on this current team, you want him at the point. I get that and would agree with that based on what they have...because of lack of anyone else he would get more touches there. I also think in certain sets that is fine as well. I do think they need to add someone who's strengths are ball handling, running the offense etc...from that spot...more of a traditional pt guard. I think only having Liddell and Lisch is serviceable. I am interested in more than serviceable.

Lisch has 32 assists and 43 turnovers in 25 games. Liddell has 67 assists and 62 turnovers. SLU is averaging 14 to's a game. Sure they have a young team and it is to be expected, but the level of competition is not very high either.

I just think the position is undervalued, and also what having someone reliable there can do to open things up for Liddell and Lisch, and create desperately needed more offense, and better ball proection. As I said, it is my opinion SLU needs another point guard..or should I say at least one true pt guard..they don't have one. They are getting away without one in the A-10, and to me that is all they are doing. This is in general...as in ...in general they need a couple of shooters and an inside player who can defend and board.

I think they need help in those 3 areas. We can disagree on this one and see both sides. Just know that obviously I know/think that SLU needs shooters, a post player as well. I would just add/include the third thing. You I am gathering don't think it is necessary and just want to concentrate on the other two areas. That's fine, I am all for those, but I am sticking to the third as well. I really think it would help a great deal on offense.

[ACE]

I also think it would be nice to add another point guard to handle the ball. We still have three scholarships. Let's use them! Here are my priorities in order. 1) A 4 who can shoot from outside, BradS has stated that this is a top priority - Stemler??? 2) A big who can play D and rebound 3) A point guard or even combo guard who can shoot the 3 a little bit. This would help offset the loss of AD and have another pg in the system to develop for a couple years behind Polk.

At the 3, Tommie could be what they call in the NBA a point forward. He's also so valuable rebounding that I think those skills are better used at the 3. That's not to say that Tommie still wouldn't get some time at the point, but late in games, when we have leads, it is so valuable to have another true point guard, to handle the ball, hit free throws when he gets fouled, etc.

[cheeseman]

Another guard/wing will not be signed because Brad promised Dustin that he would not recruit another player for his position this year. Now pg is a different matter.

[kevinfootes]

I'd love to have somebody learn while Ian is still around for his senior year. I hope Husack proves me wrong, but I don't see him as a regular...maybe a 10 or 15 minute guy. I know that's a need beyond next season, but that's how good progrmas are built IMO.

[davidnark]

nm = no message

[davidnark]

1) A power forward who can rebound, defend, and finish strong around the basket.

2) A deadly three-point specialist (this is where I believe Stemler fits the bill)

3) The best athlete we can find regardless of position. We need more guys who can run, jump, and finish in transition.

[billiken_roy]

i would add a center/big bodied power forward project. i.e. someone to redshirt and bring along. and that wish would be second on my list behind a power forward.

i personally am totally indifferent on the stemler/3 point shooter. we have maguire which has been promised to be a shooter, brown has improved, lisch has improved, meyer has improved. between the 4 i would hope we have it covered.

i do not want to waste a scholarship on a point guard this coming season at all.

so if we are signing 2 or 3 players, imo they should all be inside players but i would live with one more guard/wing.

[Band Legend]

Think Mo Jeffers three inches taller. It is late in the game for finding these type of dudes, but I think we are in a unique position to make some hay recruiting. Any recruit can look at this team and see a great future, either immediate (juco) or long term (high school). The chance to play with TL and KL for threee years is enticing. Maybe this is the time to start our new tradition, with Gonzaga being the very attainable model.

[courtside]

For next year?

It is very very late in the game to get anybody at this point. My comments were what was needed in general. The responses coming back are more right now, today's date what do we do for next year? You have to get the best player regardless of position if someone stands out a lot from the pack. If SLU did get a couple of shooters and a big man or two the next one to two years....they would still imo need another ball handler to complete the deal. While much improved if they can land some improved players at the above areas...getting good ones is a big if btw...wouldn't be enough.

[TheA_Bomb]

Courtside waffles more than "Uncle Bill's Diner"

Let's review:

Recruiting a true point guard should be a top priority.

C-side said "a priority" not "the priority", I'm dumb.

C-side said we should get a big man and shooters.

In summary:

The priorities are a true pg, a bigman and shooters. What else does that leave? Well, nothing. So everything is a priority to C-side. It can't work that way if everything is a priority then nothing is the a priority.

Furthermore, appeal to authority, which C-side utilized as the main rebuttal to my posts, is the weakest form of argument. Especially if that authority is phan or footes.

By the depth chart and known quantities of talent SLU currently has, a PF is the biggest need for this team.

Droppin' Bombs on C-Side................

[slufanskip]

I agree and said at the beginning of the year we need a center. It takes centers a few years to develop. If we recruited one for next year He could redshirt next year then back up Bryce the following. He would have to be ready to start in his 3rd year. I don't think that waiting until the following year gives us enough time. I think we need a center every 2 years

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[slufanskip]

I'll disagree about Polk. He is a pg, he has good court vision quickness and can pass. The problem is clearly he can't shoot ... which hurts his ability to move the ball as no one gets up on him. It is much harder to take a guy off the dribble or to create when your defender is an extra step off you, than it is when he up close.

Next Tommie and everyone else knows his best chance to play in the NBA is at the point ... and IMO he is a true pg. He is starting to come into his own ... looking less to score and more to create. We need to give him a good team to work with. He needs the PF.

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[slufanskip]

Check out TL's assist to t/o ratio as the starting pg. Much better and improving. If you don't think Tommie is a true pg I'm going to guess you haven't seen the last few games. Tommie's mentality has changed as Kevin has really improved his confidence and scoring. I would have agreed that TL did not look like a true pg early, but lately he has been outstanding. I want Tommie as the pg on my team for the next 3 years.

What I would like to see is for us to find a couple of quality big men ... One 5 and one 4. I agree you take all you can get but it does make a difference. If you have team full of true 5's ... you can't guard the 4 or you will get in foul trouble trying to step out. You do need both. Both don't need to be great offensive players, but it would be nice, but both need to be able to rebound and defend. As good as a rebounder as Tommie is ... we have to be able to get him down the flor if we want any kind of a transition game.

After that I'd look at the 3 spot. Of course we's all like to have a guy who can slash and score and shoot from the outside ... but I'd really love to see a Maurice Jeffers type guy with Tommie improving his 3 pt shooting. I like Luke at 3 also ... Danny Brown could be the guy, but he seems to lose focus and doesn't bring the same game each time.

I'd like a pg to be a freshman during Tommie's sr year. They don't need the time in the system to develop as a big man.

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[Sheltiedave]

Right now we have a dominant offensive and defensive center in Ian, and he alone wins us three to five games as a beast. After next year, his replacement will be Bryce. We are looking at a huge decline at the offensive end, so we need a dominant physical presence and good offensive player coming in at the C/PF position.

For shooters, we have Kevin right now. The staff has addressed this issue by recruiting Maguire, and apparently we are in the driver's seat for Stemmler. This changes us over to a perimeter dominated team again, BUT also opens up the defense to allow big men easier looks at the basket, if we get mobile big men.

We definitely need a good PG coming in every two years to maintain continuity and flexibility. We have had little problem with defensive presses in the backcourt, so our current PG situation is good.

We have had major problems with possession presses in our half court offensive sets, mainly because we have no PF presenting for an entry pass into the paint, and secondarily because our fastest ballhandler(Dwayne) is on the bench because he gets knocked off the ball when half court play gets physical. This is where we need a fast big PG.

We will be a fixture in the big dance IF Brad begins to get two players a year who have attributes similar to Tommie and Kevin...a physical player who is strong on the ball, a good shooter, and strong defensively, and a second player who is athletic, can stretch defenses, and knows how to board. Brad came up aces with both of these players.

Maguire and Stemmler seem to be stopgaps that will ease us over the shooting hump. Stemmler fills a two year slot and comes in as an accomplished shooter. Maguire will get his apprenticeship for a year and a half, and better be a solid instant O by the end of his soph year. Looking ahead on the recruiting horizon, St. Louis appears to have some bigs, and some big PGs in the pipeline in HS. Maybe the staff is projecting too much, but this is my read on who and why we are getting our committs.

[courtside]

Skip...what I do is separate two things: If I objectively evaluated SLU, what do they need to get better or be an NCAA team, and what would i recruit each year. ....I stated that in order to win in the NCAA tournament you need inside outside balance, ...after that if you could only pick one thing to win in NCAA it starts with a pt guard.

Okay...let's take step one....objectively evaluating SLU at the pt this year. You would have to combine SLU's guards...COMBINE them just to be ranked JUST OUTSIDE of the top 100 in the assist category. Now, also taken into consideration, who else can finish besides IV? From watching play, and looking at the numbers, ...the assist to turnover ratio for Lisch and Liddell are not good. They will get better sure, and be surrounded hopefully by better players too. But they are in a different stratosphere than the top 100 plus people. Not close.

SLU is averaging 14 turnovers a game against the nation's 89th toughest schedule. And, the amount of turnovers lately, or in conference, haven't been declining. SLU has a mediocre top 100 team with two promising Frosh.

Obviously SLU cannot shoot the ball and are deserate for shooters. They also need another inside player. But if SLU wants to go 2 more years of Liddell, Lisch, and Polk as the guys handling the pt, serviceable, decent...but not good enough against competition far greater than what they are playing now. If Liddell spent all of his time playing there, and working on it for the forseeable future, I think he could grow into the position more in a couple of years...but is that what SLU wants? Having 1-2 years of him transitioning into good pt play? SLU at the very least needs to bring in a point guard to work with him, give some solid minutes off of the bench...if Liddell is to be the starter there. Liddell would have to at least double his assist output next year to legitamize his playing the position, and keep his to's where they are in the process.

You mentioned if Liddell wants to play at next level he needs to be a pt guard. I would at least agree with that. And hopefully he will show major improvement playing the position next year. He does however need some help.

[slufanskip]

You are looking at TL's numbers all year ... look at them as the starting pg. I respect your opinion as I believe you know what your taking about ... Maybe I missunderstood but if you think TL today is not in the top 100 pg's in the country ... you are nuts. He is a freshman ... so when I am evaluating him ... especially in consideration of what we need for the future ... I'll look at his play of late. In his last 4 games his assist to t/o ratio is something like 18-8 ... I posted it on another thread ... but can't remember the exact number. His play in the 1st 15 games or so as basically the 3 are irrelevent.

That would be like counting Kevin all year ... when I think of him for the future I think of how he is playing now ... the last 5-8 games. I don't think of him as a 10ppg scorer ... I think of him as 14-15 as that is what he is right now today.

Like people who looked at Ian's overall stats last year to evaluate what he was going to do this year ... that was silly. He was a soph big man ... use his last 10 games ... that is how good he was at the end of the season and was the minnimum you would expect from him the following year. Same goes for TL and KL this year

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[kshoe]

In any statistical study you should only use the points that are relevant which means evaluate KL since he has been in the starting lineup, TL since he has been playing point and Ian last year when he moved into the starting lineup.

[kevinfootes]

Every two years for a center is perfect in my book. I think that's what good programs do.

[courtside]

Kshoe, I am going to evaluate the overall team, as well as the individual player for that year and career. Not just pick parts, or even a few games...or just at a certain position...a turnover for example is a turnover.

Skip,

I understand what you are saying and can agree with you. Many times earlier in the year, when people lost their minds, I posted about the transition from HS ball to major D-I ball...and that Lisch and Liddell were good recruits, top 100...they were hyped as more than that unfairly by some on the board. Surely they and IV have progressed a great deal...and expectedly....that is why you recruit them. Liddell for example isn't going to play 40 minutes a night, every night...and certainly not against the big boys. That makes Lisch and Polk the other options at point guard for next seasona and the season after. While SLU has other well documented needs...imo in order to be an NCAA competitive team, they need another guy at the position. I will gladly give you that with this current team, they have to put Liddell there and get most touches through him in order to succeed.

As has been discussed by others, me etc..for months now...SLU needs the other couple of areas as well....but waiting until these gys' senior year, as was suggested, to bring another pt guard, I think would be a mistake.

No knock on a great win and nice momentum....but this overall is about competing with the big boys, NCAA caliber teams, not the Charlotte's or whoemover of the world to me.

The expectation I listed before the season was NIT, and that is what SLU is this year, an NIT team...they have 3 good players. They need a few more. I even said, BS gets next year and year after to make NCAA's...and he may do it next year. If that is to happen, SLU must win quality non-conference games, and more road games.

The only other thing I would add is it is okay to compare Frehsmen to other Freshmen out there and how they stack up. Overall for example Liddell and Lisch have been exactly what I expected...Lisch perhaps took longer to adjust to the college game than many expected. Both are solid recruits. IV has surprised many with his improvement, and it was unexpected by many.

Regardless of position, SLU needs to get a couple of "hits" next year and year after to sustain momentum and improve. You can't get to the next level, or next gear without combining a couple of classes in a row. Lisch and Liddell are good frosh, but not good enough to carry a limited team to NCAA(unless win conference tourney) as frosh.

The improvement is encouraging, but also expected. That is why overall as a whole, they were recruited at the level they were...very good recruits...who would progress over their first year seeing a tonb of time. There are superstar recruits who immediately adjust and have had better impacts earlier....and on the other end, others who don't get much pt and play smaller roles as frosh.

Has Liddell improved at the pt and overall, sure. But I also can't say what if this or what if that happened differently...I find the improvement encouraging...as I said, but I also take into consideration a long conference schedule against very very few high quality teams too. ...meaning, it better get better...a little of that too. Do I think SLU would have had some huge turnover games, big problems handling the ball if a few big time opponents were sprinkled in late....absolutely. 23-25 turnovers just a few games ago v Temple at home for example...with more strength on the ball it creates other opportunities.

I'm talked out on the topic...I am down for depth at pt guard besides shooters and an inside player.