Soderberg Era Rant....End Game Management

[ILbillikenfan]

I want to first say that I have been here for 3 and a half years, the exact same time as Brad. I have witnessed other SLU coaching eras, but when reading this post, act as if all you have seen is Soderberg's current stint.

We NEVER win the close game. Ok, I lied a bit. Without Marquee we never win the close game. My freshman year we were 4-7 and lost 6 games by less than 3, then we realized that if we gave the ball to Key he could go amazingly make a game winning shot. Louisville, UNCC, Tulane, Depaul, name it he did it.

Fastforward since he has left, and we have played 20 games decided by under 5 points. Of these the most memorable game that we won was clearly Iowa in the NIT.

Can Soderberg draw up a play to win/tie a game? Tonite with 20 seconds down by 3, I think the logical answers are: let Tommie drive and then foul, or go for the three. Our play was to let Polk run around aimlessly, not pass once, and have a 3-30 three point shooter chuck one up??? Thats the play?

I have just grown tired of the "we played well", "we hung in there", "we are so close". If we are going to be a great team, like Brad thinks we can be, THESE games, on OUR floor, in OUR house must be won.

[Taj79]

I don't have answers to your questions and they are all quite legitimate. One thing I'd like to add to it all is this ... talent. we continue to bemoan the fact that we don't have shooters. Hell .. we've never had shooters. And that word is plural for a reason. You mention Marquee. Frankly he wasn't what I would call a classic shooter but he took the ball to the hole. We have had plural options since the Clagg years. Hughes wasn't so much a shooter as he was a slasher and a guy who made it happen. After that, we've had maybe one shooter per year .... JLove, Deiner (who, it turns out, couldn;t get that shot off), RBryant and Drejaj. Bryant tied that Zona game might I remind you ... but his toe was on the line. We need options ... with national media scouting is much easier and the defense can defend a play when there is one and only one option.

My fears for next year is that too much is put on Maguire. Let's remember, he'll be a freshman. Rather, Maguire would be a nice additional option to add to the fact that Lisch can shoot and make them. Ditto for Polk. Throw in Brown and/or Meyer. So yes, I think your quotes have merit. But we need more skills players, not just more athletes.

[BradFan]

As was stated elsewhere in a post, we need players to follow Morrison's lead and shoot 500 jumpers a day during the offseason. It isn't rocket science. Think of what TL could be with a better jump shot (Michael Jordan worked on his to take his game higher). KL, LM, DP, DB all need to sign up for the 500 a day program. All should be capable of knocking them down with more consistency. But experience helps, and they are all getting it now.

[SLUirish]

You want to know what my rant is about? How unfortunate is it that some fan tried to prevent SLU from getting a great look at the very end of the game. How absurd is it that a SLU fan would throw something on the court as Gonzaga was shooting a freethrow. Few was right, they should have been awarded a technical foul and the last 4 seconds should never have happened. Thank God the officials were able to look around the rule and the unruly fan and give SLU one last chance. My rant is on the fan. This is unacceptable. It makes us all look bad. Tell me that wasn't out of the student section, which I think it was, because it makes the undergrads look horrible. Stuff like that should happen at Mizzou, not at SLU.

[billiken_roy]

i sit to the sideline right next to the bluecrew section. that ball came from higher up in the stands than the blue crew. it was likely a student that isnt a reg. what i was just as disappointed is that those around him/her that threw the ball didnt give the pr!ck up to security.

[VTIME]

>I want to first say that I have been here for 3 and a half

>years, the exact same time as Brad. I have witnessed other

>SLU coaching eras, but when reading this post, act as if all

>you have seen is Soderberg's current stint.

>

>We NEVER win the close game. Ok, I lied a bit. Without

>Marquee we never win the close game. My freshman year we

>were 4-7 and lost 6 games by less than 3, then we realized

>that if we gave the ball to Key he could go amazingly make a

>game winning shot. Louisville, UNCC, Tulane, Depaul, name

>it he did it.

>

>Fastforward since he has left, and we have played 20 games

>decided by under 5 points. Of these the most memorable game

>that we won was clearly Iowa in the NIT.

>

>Can Soderberg draw up a play to win/tie a game? Tonite with

>20 seconds down by 3, I think the logical answers are: let

>Tommie drive and then foul, or go for the three. Our play

>was to let Polk run around aimlessly, not pass once, and

>have a 3-30 three point shooter chuck one up??? Thats the

>play?

>

>I have just grown tired of the "we played well", "we hung in

>there", "we are so close". If we are going to be a great

>team, like Brad thinks we can be, THESE games, on OUR floor,

>in OUR house must be won.

You expect them to be a great team right away. They won 9 games last year brought in two freshman and have a center that's finally realizing his potential. You dont become a great team overnight. Its a progression. We ARE going to lose close games because our whole team is young, we are not the Michigan Fab Five. This team just might be a year ahead of schedule. We essentially bring back the same next year including the entire starting 5

[tseugnekillib]

Can Soderberg draw up a play.....to win the game? Hell, all coaches can draw up plays.....what it takes to win is PLAYERS MAKING PLAYS!. For a good example refer to Morrison's second half preformance last night. Winning big is about talented two-way players making plays.

If KL hits that last second shot last night you would be talking about KL and not the coach drawing Xs and Os. Again, its about players making plays!

[SShoe]

I really don't think it's anything with Soderberg. The first two years we had seniors and juniors who could step up and make big baskets towards the end of the game. The last two years, we've been depending on freshman and sophomores to do that. Eventually these young-ins will grow up and be able to handle the pressure towards the end of the game.

[tseugnekillib]

.

[slufanskip]

It's one guy and I don't think there is a rule that says a Tech has to be awarded if something is thrown on the floor, of course Few thinks they should have got a Tech. I bet UB thinks they shouldn't have.

Even if it was the other way around ... I wouldn't think a Tech should be awarded ... it was a 1 time thing.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[Battlecat455]

I agree. KL got a good look to tie. The shot just didn't go in.As you recall, their point guard knocked in a shot at the end of the half, from a similiar spot on the floor. Players making plays and the difference in the game. We got off a good look to tie against number 9 with a bunch of Frosh and Sophs. We had Gonzaga playing our game most of the night. Our time will come. Patience, Gentlemen. I'd say Coach did a creditable job in preparation and the team executed the plan very well.

[Billiken75]

I am quite happy with Soderberg - both his coaching and recruiting. This is the first time we have had some depth and talent - most of it is young, and they will learn to win. We held Gonzaga to 60 pts., that is pretty impressive with a young team. Would you want to be playing us at the end of the year?

[SShoe]

this is at least the second time this has happened. Maybe 3rd time. It happened during the Arizona game and I think the Marquette game.

This only happens when we get students who don't normally come to games. Blue Crew members are better fans than that.

Perhaps they need to stop throwing those stupid balls into the crowd.

[kshoe]

we've played exactly two big-time non conference opponents on our own court in four years and both times now some idiot student throws a ball on the court. It is completely unnaceptable. Few would have had a major ***** if Lisch had hit that shot. I'd much rather have the ball out of bounds with the full amount of time then the ball in Ians hand with the clock already ticking. If it happens again it should be a technical.

As great as having 15k+ in the house was if it comes at the expense of allowing idiots like that in the stadium I wish they would stay home.

[slufanskip]

I agree ... I am sure UB didn't "draw" up the play to have Polk shoot from the corner ... the players have to react to the situations on the court and make the plays.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[bg]

Throwing objects on the floor rarely, if ever, receives a technical without a warning. That being said, it worked to Gonzaga's advantage. It gave them the opportunity to regroup and set up their defense.

[kshoe]

that play clearly benefitted us. It gave us an extra second of time and allowed us to set up an inbounds play with the ball in Lisch's hand, not Ians.

[slufanskip]

This may surprise you but I don't think the ref considered the Arizona game when deciding wether to issue a tech. Clearly I was talking about a 1 time thing in this game, as it was in reference to a tech being called.

I hate the people throwing stuff on the floor ... I have never even considered it and if someone did it and I saw it ... I would turn them into security in a heartbeat

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[p diddy]

you're right. brad's first year, we turned the ball over to marque and he made the plays. the second year, we won a ton of close games (kansas state, charlotte, so. miss (twice), iowa, marquette, houston (OT).

we lost all of those games last year with the exception of so. miss.

the reason: we had excellent senior leadership those first two years with marque, followed by chris and sloan. veteran maturity led to good decision making and some ballsy defensive stands and the end of close games.

last year, we saw none of that. Why; because we were way to young and our youth showed up several times down the stretch. who can forget luke's ill-fated jumper that was swatted by uab at the end of a game. last night, we saw our inexperince again and dwayne made a bonehead decision to shoot that contested three with about 12 seconds left. with the exception of drejaj, all of our perimeter players are still young and it showed because this was our first close game of the season.

i hope this doesn't continue to be a pattern because we are in for many more close games, especially when we get into the conference season.

this needs to be adressed in practice OVER and OVER and OVER with live late-game situations.

bad boyz for life

[SLUirish]

It was absolutely SLU's advantage. You have a ball thrown on to the floor during a free throw situation. First, we're lucky the player was not awarded another free throw, as that could be considered the equivilant to a lane violation. Secondly, as I said earlier, a technical could have been called. The official had the heart not to allow one moron to blow a last second chance for SLU. However, it is at the official's discretion whether or not a T could have been awarded. In fact, Few would have had every right to pitch more of a fit about it but didn't. All in all, it's classless and I am also disappointed that a lot of other students seemed to sit by and allow it to go unchecked. It is beginning to be an embarrasment.

[slufanskip]

We know what you said earlier ... yes the ref could have called a tech, but what makes you think he should have ... if they NEVER do it at the first incident. Why would it be different here. They did get a chance to set up their D ... I don't think I said they got the advantage.

Again the person who threw it is an idiot and the fans around him should have pointed him out, but it seems some people think it happens more here than other places ... I would bet it doesn't.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[cheeseman]

Before people rant on DP and the shot - remember that the time clock was ticking down and somebody had to take it. Don't forget that we had 2 3ptrs that night and one was made by DP. Nobody was open for taking a shot and it might have gone in if it was not tipped.

[Billikens_Fanatic]

I agree with Skip. While the refs technically could have issued a foul, there's no way that they should have. That's basically letting the drunk guy who threw the ball decide a very close, exciting basketball game instead of the guys on the court.

[SLUirish]

Here's the deal. First, relax. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Second, what makes this different is that it happened at the end of the game. All of those other examples you speak of aren't necessarily at the end of games. It did add an advantage to SLU, as much of an advantage as you can have being down by three with 4 seconds left. It allowed SLU to dictate who got the ball for the shot attempt. Do you really think that SLU would rather have Ian with the ball and the top of the opposite key and 3 seconds left? Or would they rather inbound the ball with four seconds left and have a chance to dictate who takes that shot? The ball flying on the court had nothing to do with Ian getting the ball, but they added time anyway. How is that not an advantage? Also, if you noticed, Gonzaga had players pulled back on the free throw anyway, so the argument saying that they got to set up their defense is a little weak in comparison to the alternative. SLU definitely gained from the irresponsible actions of a SLU undergrad. By the way, nobody is saying it happens at SLU more than other places, but it shouldn't happen at SLU...that's the problem.

[slufanskip]

I never said SLU didn't get an advantage ... what I said was they did get to set there defense ... so it wasn't as one sided as you make it seem.

I didn't name specific incidents where a tech wasn't called ... regardless of the time in the game ... it NEVER ... grab your panties and get this NEVER EVER gets called at the 1st incident.

You are right ... shouldn't have happenned at SLU or anywhere ... but to insinuate that a tech should have been called is baseless.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman