SShoe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 There is finally a new post article...interesting quote from Brad towards the bottom about leaning towards a four-guard offense. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...02?OpenDocument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 It was media day, Tommie had to write something, he was on expenses. Cheney, let's give him a break, the guy belongs in the Hardwood Gardens Home for Old Coaches. At least Tommy didn't take him at his word and checked out who the Bills have actually played. As to the rest of the coaches basically flicking us off their shoulder like a piece of pesky dandruff, well now we've got something to prove. This ought to be a hell of a motivator for UB. I have to think if it's a 4 guard offense it'll be TL, DB, KL, and AD. I can't see AD and DP both in there...that is a very short lineup. Or the surprise in this lineup might be VN if he's been seen practicing with the guards. Who knows. But UB must have a lot of confidence in IV, if he's leaning towards it. Question, for you experts, if we do see 4 guard, what is our defensive scheme? Wouldn't it have to be some kind of zone? Against teams with strong PF's we don't have a guard that can stop one. Man to man would put a lot of pressure on IV to basically defend the inside, which would put him at risk for picking up a lot of fouls. The 4 guard doesn't make sense to me if we play man to man. We're gonna give the other teams a lot of second chances and open the door for a PF and a 5 to have a field day against us on the inside. Maybe UB and staff have come up with some type of Star War's Match up Belly to Belly Zone D? "I didn't vote for them to come in 13th." Brian Gregory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewey33 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 The "pack" defense has a lot of traits of a zone....it gives plenty of inside help. I think if we go 4-guard, outside shooting, not defense will be the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Good point. UC killed us with it last year as I recall. We shut down Maxiell and their other big, but they rained 3's on us like scud missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 If we go 4 guard I would like to see us pressure the ball more. It would seem to me we will also have to create some turnovers for easy baskets. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWin Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 We played the Hoosiers in the 90s. I drove up to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 in 1995-96 campaign. It was the first year after Clagget and those guys left and was best known as the Tyron Caswell years. Good to know the Post Dispatch has their facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 skip, imo that would be the worst thing we could do. you saw at practice when they practiced their press. not one time did either team create a turnover or a backcourt stop. and if you are talking about coming out of the pack man to man and instead pushing the guards out beyond the 3 point line in the man to man, that would likely only open the inside up more which will be undersized and unprotected enough due to the size difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 with as much intensity as they did research in making those picks. While it is somewhat understandble that we are picked low in the conference I think its outright insulting to pick us 13th. I hope Brad puts that prediction up on every players locker as motivation for the entire year. Too bad Timmerman didn't point out that a) we have played Indiana back in the 95-96 season in the pre-season NIT and the last second win vs. Indiana and the win over Syracuse were accomplishments of Charlotte the past two years. Chaney basically had us confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 he might have been thinking about girls soccer. come on guys. timmerman shouldnt be expected to know basketball facts. how can you hold that against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 When Brad talks about a 4 guard system is he really mislabeling it? With TL in there or DB, they could easily play like a wing who often ends up covering a small forward. Maybe what he means is the he will have 2 guards and two g/w on the floor along with IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Or the Jamal Johnson year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 cheeseman, playing liddell or brown or meyer at the forward spots doesnt make them forwards. they do not have the bodies to play against typical power forwards. that might fly vs umsl but it aint gonna work vs gonzaga, iowa, north carolina, fordham, gw, charlotte, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 What protection do we have should opponents decide to pound the ball inside early in the game to get Ian in foul trouble? Does a 4 guard line-up make us more vulernable to this strategy? If I was playing us, I'd go straight at him early in the game to try to get 2 cheap calls to open the inside for the rest of a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 in an effort to get the exact dates and scores of the games for a planned e-mail to mr timmerman, i checked the billiken media guide online and it backs timmerman's facts on the indiana and syracuse last played games. boy sure thought they played since as well, but i dont find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Can you imagine anyone other than JJ or VN trying to stop Whithers or Pops? Even those two against them makes one quiver with fear. Until we get a legit competitive #4, we are at a huge disadvantage every time we take the floor, unless our guard play is spectacular: read can shoot lights out from beyond the arc. And we know how AD and DP did from that range last year. Even TL will have trouble if the opponents PF is not occupied against another big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 If Roy's right, SLU has a sloppy media guide. Then again, in about 3.4 seconds, I found this among our own stories. Feel free to cite it when requesting a correction. INDIANA ROUGHS UP BILLIKENS 70-54 By Mike EisenbathOf the Post-Dispatch Staff Sunday, 11/24/1996 BLOOMINGTON, IND. -- Before Friday, the last time the Billikens ran into a basketball team from the Big Ten Conference, they slinked home from Minnesota with black-and-blue bodies after losing in the first round of the National Invitation Tournament. The Bills vowed to muscle up for this season. They thought they had. St. Louis University returned from Big Ten country again Friday night with more bruises. But this time, the Indiana Hoosiers beat up the Bills' egos as well en route to a 70-54 victory. "It wasn't as bad as at Minnesota," senior Jeff Harris said. "But it was physical. . . . It doesn't just feel like we got our butts kicked. We did." The Hoosiers (3-0) dominated almost the entire game in front of an Assembly Hall crowd of 13,628 in the second round of the Preseason NIT. They will head for New York to face the Evansville-Iona winner in Wednesday's semifinals. Even though the Bills (1-1) trailed 37-30 at halftime and by only eight points more than nine minutes into the second half, they never really threatened Indiana. The Hoosiers bolted to an 11-2 lead, then used a 9-0 run later in the first half to open a commanding advantage. "But they did not let us get into a situation where there was real pressure on the score until midway in the second half," Indiana coach Bob Knight said. A 12-foot jumper by Jamall Walker snipped Indiana's lead to 48-40 with less than 11 minutes remaining in the game. The Hoosiers countered with six consecutive points in less than 90 seconds to reaffirm the rout. "The stat sheet says it all," Walker said. Indiana, which started two 7-footers and 6-8 standout Andrae Patterson, outrebounded the considerably smaller Billikens 46-27. The Hoosiers scored 25 points after grabbing offensive rebounds. Officials whistled SLU for 25 fouls. The Hoosiers hit only 63 percent of their free throws, but they still outscored the Bills 19-6 from the line. The Bills hit only 35 percent of their shots from the field, including four of 18 from 3-point range. "Shot bad, played bad," SLU's Rasheed Malik said, assessing his own play. He might as well have said the same for everyone. Virgel Cobbin and Walker each had a team-high 10 points. Cobbin scored eight of those in a 46-second stretch to give the Billikens a 19-17 lead. But he played only 14 minutes in the game, four in the second half, because of a slow-healing sprained ankle. "He's gotten to where he can stand and shoot it on the ankle," SLU coach Charlie Spoonhour said. "But that's all he can do right now." The Billikens needed to make some shots. They also needed to defend freshman guard A.J. Guyton, who had 14 points and seven rebounds. They needed to collect some rebounds, a task made tougher when 6-7 Tyrone Caswell went out with a mild shoulder separation. And 6-8 Ryan Luechtefeld played just 22 minutes, largely because of foul trouble. "Any time I get only two rebounds, though, I've got to go home and kick myself," Harris said. They needed to hustle. "I think we got our butts kicked hustling," Walker said. "They outhustled us. I mean, Patterson is 6-8 and he was outrunning our guards down the floor. That shouldn't happen. I have to put blame on myself for something like that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecrewwebmaster Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I like the quote from Dayton's coach and I have to agree with him. We're going to be a lot better than 13th in the league. Throw last year's record out the window, new year, new team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 according to mr timmerman in his response to my e-mail, he indeed did originally use the slu media guide for his backup. however the error was discovered before going to print and was changed in the actual paper but not on stltoday.com originally. it has now apparently been changed on the website as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Despite the fact that I'm only 30 years old, the article you posted has convinced me that Alzheimer's must be setting in early. I have no memory of this game. I have no memory of Rasheed Malik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Rasheed did not play his senior year due to some type of genetic heart defect. Teaches school in Houston Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Roy, I don't disagree but Brad did that with LM and DB last year. I was just trying to figure out what he is thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I saw one practice where they practiced any sort of press ... hard to tell much from 15 minutes. They have the bodies and the athleticism ... IMO if they are going to go 4 guards, they have to create some sort of an advantage ... which would be the quickness they would possess over the opponnent. If they just retreat back down the floor and sit in the pack ... they will get eaten up inside. It seems to me that you would have to expect that your going to give up some buckets inside ... but on the other hand you have to make what you are putting on the floor work for you ... pressure the ball especially in the back court and create some turnovers. Maybe just maybe you can make the opponnent adjust to you. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 if all 6 guards had polks blinding speed/quickness, i might agree. think uab the last couple of seasons. but truth be told, imo, probably only polk is that level, brown is well above average and lisch, drejaj, liddell, and meyer are average to above average quickness. i.e. i dont think just playing a lot of guards is going to give us any decided quickness advantage defensively. it is just going to spread up out all the time. the way the pack is designed from my observation, is that unless a man has just been killing us from the outside, all the non ball defenders stay in their 12 foot semi circle to guard the lane. only the ball defender is out tight on his man. the key is getting out fast as possible to hopefully take away the easy look, yet, doing it in a manner to not get beat on the dribble as well. it is actually a thing of beauty to watch develop, however, weak links destroy the concept. now if the whole thing would be junked to play spoonball belly button defense, you will cut off passing lanes for outside shooters, but leave yourself vulnerable to backcuts unless you have a couple of anchors that stay home to guard the basket. ian cant do that by himself. again, that defensive philosophy imo would be better suited to not 4 guard lineups but solid two big lineups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I for one do not like the pack defense and believe it cost us several games last year. We lost cup cake games by allowing lesser talented teams to sit outside and shoot 3's. I believe the 3 pt. shot is the most important play in basketball and defenses should be designed to take it away. We were bad last year becuse we couldn't shoot it and gave up too many open looks. My strategy is to take away the outsde shot by overplaying and helping inside after the ball is thrown in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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