Rightly or wrongly, whether many want to admit it or not

[Schasz]

I don't know what SLU's overall attendance has been this year; however, at the start of the year they were touted as an almost not miss NCAA team. With Ford as HC I was skeptical of those projections as I have had 6 years of prior experience with him as HC. I did not like the hire to start with but Crews had to go so SLU's AD settled. The games I've watched I am seeing many empty seats that should worry the powers to be at SLU. Without a football program hoops is the Only revenue producing sport. IMO SLU has to rely on the casual non SLU graduate if they have hopes of sellout crowds. The casual fan rooting for the home team (SLU) has hopes to see a winner. One would hope the real money donors at SLU are going to have a coming to Jesus meeting soon on Ford and realize he's had enough time to show he knows how to put a consistently winning program out...one that can get to the NCAA Tourney 3 out of every 5 years. The fans who have stuck it out with the program deserve it. 

[cheeseman]

23 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Almost as bad a Mo signing Carp to a huge extension when it wasn’t necessary.  At least in that case Matt had produced.

If you think the Carp signing was MO's decision you clearly don't understand that Dewitt has to approve all contracts - it was him wanted to sign Carp.  Same holds true for Ford - May is not making that decision it is the BOT and Pesty.  Now that doesn't mean that both weren't in a favor of the signings.

[billiken_roy]

10 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Everyone knows the majority of fans can only speak with dollars spent.  Most don’t have the deep wallets to influence a drastic change over a short period of time.  It takes a bad year or two of attendance and dollars not being spent to raise some concern among the powers that be.  Some members seem to think they are so influential in their ideas on  boards like this that they can change the direction of a program.   There is constant game plan strategy, ideas for Chris May, Travis, comments about players, etc.  If that’s the case, then seeing a lot of posts that’s critical of the program or coach may just be a faster way of heating up the seat under a regime that has gotten stale.  Will it work?  I have no idea, but it’s not my job to worry about where the money will come from.  The money will either be there or it won’t.  What’s the alternative?  Not criticizing anything and watch the program sink to Crews-like levels?

crews like levels?   we are no where near that.   the problem with ford is he will likely always have enough talent to at the very minimum be in the race for both the conference title and an ncaa spot.   no way i disagree with the fact he has squandered that most of the time.   but at least we got a chance.   you want to apparently start over with an unknown coach, and no knowledge of whether the players here will stick around and your only recourse then is to spend more money going to the portal and bidding on players there.   my answer to that is there is a reason they are in the portal, and the best safer choices are going to cost big.  you are naive if you think we will outbid the power teams for those players.   the rest all have question marks or issues, and i guess you think we can fix those?   

sorry i dont want to play.   i definitely dont want a rebuild when we are always close with a coach that knows how to get talent.  we all pretty much have issues with his game coaching and player development and that is extremely frustrating.   but as i have said, unless you got the plan to avoid a rebuild that doesnt break the bank we likely wont have or you know where the rainbow ends, if just isnt going to happen and we would be headed for the usual 5 year rebuild with no guarantees.   count me out.

[cheeseman]

45 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Two take aways from this thread: 

1) A fans message board can’t do squat about the program’s current state of disrepair. 
2) Ford’s contract is between him and the school. It’s up to the powers that be to figure out his future and what’s in SLU’s best interest. 
Neither of these should stop the fan’s opinions from being expressed on here. Whether or not our feelings or opinions will be a factor in the program’s direction may be noted by management but will play little or no role in their decision making process. The only means the fans have at their disposal is through attendance and dollars spent at games, donations, and merchandise purchases. I would assume if the program doesn’t show improvement the fan’s $$ contributions will decrease. That will get their attention. I sincerely hope it doesn’t sink to that level, but at some point we’re going to have to see improvement from our current status of seeing our high expectations go down in flames every season. 

You are correct but I will not agree with the idea that fans don't matter unless they stop paying - I think the school, any school, is playing with fire if they are so tone deaf as not to understand the fan's anger.  

[BANGheGOTit]

It was simply a comment regarding similarly bad decision. It doesn’t mean I think this or that.  I’m not naïve enough think Dewitt doesn’t have control.

[Schasz]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

crews like levels?   we are no where near that.   the problem with ford is he will likely always have enough talent to at the very minimum be in the race for both the conference title and an ncaa spot.   no way i disagree with the fact he has squandered that most of the time.   but at least we got a chance.   you want to apparently start over with an unknown coach, and no knowledge of whether the players here will stick around and your only recourse then is to spend more money going to the portal and bidding on players there.   my answer to that is there is a reason they are in the portal, and the best safer choices are going to cost big.  you are naive if you think we will outbid the power teams for those players.   the rest all have question marks or issues, and i guess you think we can fix those?   

sorry i dont want to play.   i definitely dont want a rebuild when we are always close with a coach that knows how to get talent.  we all pretty much have issues with his game coaching and player development and that is extremely frustrating.   but as i have said, unless you got the plan to avoid a rebuild that doesnt break the bank we likely wont have or you know where the rainbow ends, if just isnt going to happen and we would be headed for the usual 5 year rebuild with no guarantees.   count me out.

Roy...if we agree entirely on the talent being better and it is better than what Crews brought in...I'd still argue with you that if I give you that then it is still Ford's job to Coach UP the talent he brings in. IMHO that is where he fails and a prime reason he needs to be shown the door...sooner the better! HC's that bring in 5 Star talent still need to Coach UP that talent and I'll grant you the measure they have to Coach it UP is less that 3 or 4 Stars.

[BANGheGOTit]

17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

crews like levels?   we are no where near that.   the problem with ford is he will likely always have enough talent to at the very minimum be in the race for both the conference title and an ncaa spot.   no way i disagree with the fact he has squandered that most of the time.   but at least we got a chance.   you want to apparently start over with an unknown coach, and no knowledge of whether the players here will stick around and your only recourse then is to spend more money going to the portal and bidding on players there.   my answer to that is there is a reason they are in the portal, and the best safer choices are going to cost big.  you are naive if you think we will outbid the power teams for those players.   the rest all have question marks or issues, and i guess you think we can fix those?   

sorry i dont want to play.   i definitely dont want a rebuild when we are always close with a coach that knows how to get talent.  we all pretty much have issues with his game coaching and player development and that is extremely frustrating.   but as i have said, unless you got the plan to avoid a rebuild that doesnt break the bank we likely wont have or you know where the rainbow ends, if just isnt going to happen and we would be headed for the usual 5 year rebuild with no guarantees.   count me out.

I didn’t say we are AT Crews-like levels YET, but do you think Oklahoma state thought they would fall as quickly as they did and they are a power school! The one common denominator is Travis Ford.  So your contention is that the program and the Fanbase need to just except mediocrity because of the fear that it could be a rebuilding process? Well look a couple hours West had a program that was in dismal straits who hires a coach and gets a almost completely different roster and see where they are now. College sports has changed with the portal so a rebuilding process doesn’t necessarily have to take five years.  I’ve definitely ready to burn it all down if that’s what it takes to have a chance to change trajectory.  I don’t want to just get close.  What’s the point in trying to be average?  Where’s the fun in each season ending in disappointment?  I hope the program never goes to another NIT!  There is no reason this program can’t be on the radar nationally on a routine basis.

[Taj79]

The VCU game visuals on ESPN2 showed me a lot of seats with Billiken Blizzard t-shirts draped over them.  Seems to me that is not a sellout.  The ESPN box score showed attendance at 9230 or 87% full.  Likely the largest crowd around the A10 outside of Dayton sellouts.  If I were to guess, I am guessing SLU reports attendance based on tickets sold, not people in the seats.

I can honestly say that Chris May is hearing the rumblings.  Whether anything is done is pure speculation and out of anyone's control on this board.  I take all comments --- pro or con, as welcome discussion.

SLU's attendance has been pretty good if you ask me.  Murray State = 7253.  Evansville = 7020.  Memphis = 7925.  Paul Quinn = 5323.  Tennessee State -= 5025.  Southern Illinois = 7024.  Boise State = not listed.  Drake = 7251.  SIUE = 7826.  Bonaventure = 8219.  Mason = 5238.  La Salle = 7523.  VCU = 9230.  That's 77,334 over 12 games for 6445 per game.  Probably third best in the A10.   I don't know how this compares to year's past but it appears, on the surface, to be very good.

I do agree that Ford's shortcoming appear to be self-evident.

 

[BC1764]

31 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

crews like levels?   we are no where near that.   the problem with ford is he will likely always have enough talent to at the very minimum be in the race for both the conference title and an ncaa spot.   no way i disagree with the fact he has squandered that most of the time.   but at least we got a chance.   you want to apparently start over with an unknown coach, and no knowledge of whether the players here will stick around and your only recourse then is to spend more money going to the portal and bidding on players there.   my answer to that is there is a reason they are in the portal, and the best safer choices are going to cost big.  you are naive if you think we will outbid the power teams for those players.   the rest all have question marks or issues, and i guess you think we can fix those?   

sorry i dont want to play.   i definitely dont want a rebuild when we are always close with a coach that knows how to get talent.  we all pretty much have issues with his game coaching and player development and that is extremely frustrating.   but as i have said, unless you got the plan to avoid a rebuild that doesnt break the bank we likely wont have or you know where the rainbow ends, if just isnt going to happen and we would be headed for the usual 5 year rebuild with no guarantees.   count me out.

Good programs find good coaches.

[BANGheGOTit]

4 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

The VCU game visuals on ESPN2 showed me a lot of seats with Billiken Blizzard t-shirts draped over them.  Seems to me that is not a sellout.  The ESPN box score showed attendance at 9230 or 87% full.  Likely the largest crowd around the A10 outside of Dayton sellouts.  If I were to guess, I am guessing SLU reports attendance based on tickets sold, not people in the seats.

I can honestly say that Chris May is hearing the rumblings.  Whether anything is done is pure speculation and out of anyone's control on this board.  I take all comments --- pro or con, as welcome discussion.

SLU's attendance has been pretty good if you ask me.  Murray State = 7253.  Evansville = 7020.  Memphis = 7925.  Paul Quinn = 5323.  Tennessee State -= 5025.  Southern Illinois = 7024.  Boise State = not listed.  Drake = 7251.  SIUE = 7826.  Bonaventure = 8219.  Mason = 5238.  La Salle = 7523.  VCU = 9230.  That's 77,334 over 12 games for 6445 per game.  Probably third best in the A10.   I don't know how this compares to year's past but it appears, on the surface, to be very good.

I do agree that Ford's shortcoming appear to be self-evident.

 

Attendance should be top 2 or 3 in the A10 consistently!  With the hype this team had in preseason and a few good opponents coming in, you would expect that—but to see empty seats for VCU could be a red flag that fans are tired of the results.  66-70% capacity should not be the goal.

[wgstl]

14 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

 

SLU's attendance has been pretty good if you ask me.  Murray State = 7253.  Evansville = 7020.  Memphis = 7925.  Paul Quinn = 5323.  Tennessee State -= 5025.  Southern Illinois = 7024.  Boise State = not listed.  Drake = 7251.  SIUE = 7826.  Bonaventure = 8219.  Mason = 5238.  La Salle = 7523.  VCU = 9230.  That's 77,334 over 12 games for 6445 per game.  Probably third best in the A10.   I don't know how this compares to year's past but it appears, on the surface, to be very good.

 

 

NCAA is reporting an average of 5,517 for last season.  A jump of almost 1k is good, still thought going into the year it would be closer to 7,500

[Cowboy II]

28 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

The VCU game visuals on ESPN2 showed me a lot of seats with Billiken Blizzard t-shirts draped over them.  Seems to me that is not a sellout.  The ESPN box score showed attendance at 9230 or 87% full.  Likely the largest crowd around the A10 outside of Dayton sellouts.  If I were to guess, I am guessing SLU reports attendance based on tickets sold, not people in the seats.

I can honestly say that Chris May is hearing the rumblings.  Whether anything is done is pure speculation and out of anyone's control on this board.  I take all comments --- pro or con, as welcome discussion.

SLU's attendance has been pretty good if you ask me.  Murray State = 7253.  Evansville = 7020.  Memphis = 7925.  Paul Quinn = 5323.  Tennessee State -= 5025.  Southern Illinois = 7024.  Boise State = not listed.  Drake = 7251.  SIUE = 7826.  Bonaventure = 8219.  Mason = 5238.  La Salle = 7523.  VCU = 9230.  That's 77,334 over 12 games for 6445 per game.  Probably third best in the A10.   I don't know how this compares to year's past but it appears, on the surface, to be very good.

I do agree that Ford's shortcoming appear to be self-evident.

 

-what does this mean?

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-what does this mean?

its impossible to ignore how upset fans are. 

[wgstl]

24 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Attendance should be top 2 or 3 in the A10 consistently!

I believe we are 3rd most years. 

[billiken_roy]

46 minutes ago, Schasz said:

Roy...if we agree entirely on the talent being better and it is better than what Crews brought in...I'd still argue with you that if I give you that then it is still Ford's job to Coach UP the talent he brings in. IMHO that is where he fails and a prime reason he needs to be shown the door...sooner the better! HC's that bring in 5 Star talent still need to Coach UP that talent and I'll grant you the measure they have to Coach it UP is less that 3 or 4 Stars.

and schasz you are certain a firing and an unknown coach at that point is a guaranteed fix?   hmmm seems like we have been in this same spot many times with the program and most have not turned out very well.   my opinion only but we are looking at likely an even steeper step back for about 5 years minimum and a costly one as well if we end up hiring a really good coach.   im fine with the cost if we get a chris beard like talent i'm betting that wont be the case.  

[billiken_roy]

30 minutes ago, BC1764 said:

Good programs find good coaches.

ok, we found (actually the way i heard it is he found us) rickma.   who else have we found in the program history?   you opened this can of worms.   how much is it going to cost then to not only fire and hire a coach, but revamp the athletic department to be considered a "good program"?   you really seem to be quite naive as to fixing the problem if i do say so myself. 

[BANGheGOTit]

2 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I believe we are 3rd most years. 

Besides Dayton and possibly VCU, how many other arenas even have a seating capacity that would allow any other schools to be better than 4th?  You could have a 7000 seat arena sold to capacity every game and not be top 3 (not sure what the seating capacity is in the respective schools…just saying).

[billiken_roy]

30 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Attendance should be top 2 or 3 in the A10 consistently!  With the hype this team had in preseason and a few good opponents coming in, you would expect that—but to see empty seats for VCU could be a red flag that fans are tired of the results.  66-70% capacity should not be the goal.

or we have a lot of corporate seats that really couldnt care less if the seats get used and dont have (or wont take the time) to get the seats to someone that will use them. 

[BANGheGOTit]

11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

and schasz you are certain a firing and an unknown coach at that point is a guaranteed fix?   hmmm seems like we have been in this same spot many times with the program and most have not turned out very well.   my opinion only but we are looking at likely an even steeper step back for about 5 years minimum and a costly one as well if we end up hiring a really good coach.   im fine with the cost if we get a chris beard like talent i'm betting that wont be the case.  

You want a guarantee.  That’s probably going to be a slight issue moving forward.  There are no guarantees.  You keep mentioning a 5 year setback.  Quick turnarounds are impossible?  Hmmm, for some reason I had a crazy dream that Mizzou was ranked and is getting ready to make the tournament!  Crazy how the mind works.  That can’t happen—they fired their coach and got a almost completely different roster! Rebuilds take 5 years!  I guess SLU is just incapable of making progress at the scale of other programs?  With the portal, NIL, etc—it can happen in a very quick amount of time.  Let’s say SLU goes down this path and the next 2 or years are .500–with 7 seasons of this same staff, what’s the difference between a 22-23 win season and missing the tournament or a 15/16 win season if in the “rebuilding process” the result ends up with another good 5-6 year run or better?  I don’t care if SLU wins 26-28 games per year if it ends with no NCAA tournament.  

[wgstl]

6 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Besides Dayton and possibly VCU, how many other arenas even have a seating capacity that would allow any other schools to be better than 4th?  You could have a 7000 seat arena sold to capacity every game and not be top 3 (not sure what the seating capacity is in the respective schools…just saying).

Umass has 9500k

Richmond has 9k

Ryan center 7600

All im saying is we're top 3.  and we will never be 1, there's a good chance we finish 2nd this year. 

 

[BANGheGOTit]

3 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Umass has 9500k

Richmond has 9k

Ryan center 7600

All im saying is we're top 3.  and we will never be 1, there's a good chance we finish 2nd this year. 

 

If member schools would just build smaller arenas we may even get to #1.  Awesome.

[wgstl]

9 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

and schasz you are certain a firing and an unknown coach at that point is a guaranteed fix?   hmmm seems like we have been in this same spot many times with the program and most have not turned out very well.   my opinion only but we are looking at likely an even steeper step back for about 5 years minimum and a costly one as well if we end up hiring a really good coach.   im fine with the cost if we get a chris beard like talent i'm betting that wont be the case.  

a 5 year setback can definitely happen with a bad coaching hire. And can also send us right into the NCAA tournament in year 1 with a good coaching hire.  

we're on year 4 of being close but no cigar in the regular season. Everyone's different, but I'm sick of being just "close".  

This all said, there may be an answer for both sides. Lets say Ford comes back next year(better chance than not), and doesn't make the tournament , are you ok with moving on then? or do we need to see what he can do in year 9 to finally get a good idea?

 

[johnbj14]

Any hire will have some inherent risk. Because of the type of program SLU is, the true risk free hire just isn’t out there. It isn’t hard to poke holes in a coach who was fired from the P6 level, rising low/mid-major coach, or hot shot assistant.
 

The alternative of sticking with what we have for fear of the new hire being worse though is a really scary proposition. It feels like we’ve seen the height of what Ford can do here, and it is short of what a lot of us feel the program can achieve. 

[BANGheGOTit]

1 minute ago, wgstl said:

a 5 year setback can definitely happen with a bad coaching hire. And can also send us right into the NCAA tournament in year 1 with a good coaching hire.  

we're on year 4 of being close but no cigar in the regular season. Everyone's different, but I'm sick of being just "close".  

This all said, there may be an answer for both sides. Lets say Ford comes back next year(better chance than not), and doesn't make the tournament , are you ok with moving on then? or do we need to see what he can do in year 9 to finally get a good idea?

 

I could personally deal with another 2 years of this mediocrity if Porter can’t get it done in OK and he is hired at the same time to replace Travis.

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, BANGheGOTit said:

I could personally deal with another 2 years of this mediocrity if Porter can’t get it done in OK and he is hired at the same time to replace Travis.

I mean, if it worked this way, sure.