Stay Calm and Be a Billiken

[brianstl]

Yes, Crews exceeded expectations by taking an unranked team that no one picked to win the A-10 to two regular season conference championships, a conference tournament championship, two top 15 rankings, one top 10 ranking, and two NCAA tournament victories.

Haith had the #2 team in the country lose in the first round of the tournament, then followed that up with another top 10 team dropping the first round. Even after all that, his last Mizzou team was STILL nationally ranked, and they didn't even make the tournament.

There is no comparison. Unlike Haith's Tigers, neither of Crews' teams were ever close to being ranked #2 in any national poll, let alone the final one. Unlike Haith's teams, both of Crews' made it to the tournament. Unlike Haith, Crews actually won a tournament game in not just one but both of his seasons. Compare the talent level and recruiting stars Crews inherited with what Haith did. Then compare the results, in terms of both regular season championships and tournament performance. Again, there is no comparison, and I suspect you know just how silly a post this really is.

Why do you care where the preseason polls had us ranked? Everyone who followed the program knew those SLU teams were going to be very good. He didn't outperform those expectations.

Haith's first Mizzou team started the season ranked 25th. Over the whole season Haith's team way outperformed that ranking. The truth is that team was always better than the 25th ranking and never as good as the #2 ranking. Just like we were never as good as our #10 ranking last season.

[hsmith19]

If awards is your argument for Crews then are you not saying that Crews was better at SLU than Majerus? 2 A10 COY for Crews and 0 for Majerus? It's fine if you are, just wanting to make sure.

Did you even read my post? The basis for my argument is expectations vs. results.

Majerus's team ultimately met the expectations people had for it, even if it did take longer than originally hoped for, and even if the national rankings never really did reflect the heightened expectations his name brought with it. Given circumstances beyond his control, I think 2011 was a reasonable turnaround on putting his system in place, especially when you consider how good the 2009 team was before that. But some people certainly did criticize Majerus for not making the tournament sooner, and I can at least understand the argument.

People (not just local fans, but national pollsters and punsters) expected the world of Haith's teams. Not just once but three straight years, they were expected to be one of the best in the nation. They were stacked with top recruits and an almost ridiculous level of talent transferring in from other programs. And not just once but three different times, they crapped the bed. They had no "awards" to show for the hype at all.

Crews took over and people immediately pronounced a death sentence for SLU's rebuilding efforts. Without Majerus' brilliant tactical mind, we would be doomed. The Rhode Island game confirmed these people's worst fears. Then that team ended up in the top 15, won two conference titles, and then an NCAA tournament game. At that point the criticism turned to the idea that that first year was a fluke. We would still slip back into obscurity without Majerus, especially when we failed to beat either Wisconsin or Wichita State. Then that team rallied at UMass to win another conference title, and win the most exciting game any SLU fan is ever likely to experience in the tournament. Now the criticism has turned back to the idea that Crews' recruits will never be able to match up to Majerus. As bad as the results have been so far this year, this just strikes me as silly. Comparing 2010 to 2014 hinges mostly on the relative strength of the upperclassmen. It's not Crews' fault that he does not have a Brian Conklin, Kyle Cassity, or Cory Remekun this year to help his rebuilding project. He was not even the coach during the years his current senior and junior classes were recruited. If you want to judge him sans Majerus coattails, judge him on the strength of this freshman class and what they accomplish over the next 3+ years. That's the same luxury people are affording Majerus in hindsight.

[HoosierPal]

With the addition of Donnie Dobbs, H Waldman and Carl Turner. I'd take those ad dons for next year.

I always chuckle when I think of Spoon's comments on Dobbs. He said "when we recruited him he was 6'6. When he got to St. Louis he was 6'2. There was some kind of shrinkage going on during his trip from the west coast." Dobbs did indeed know how to use his posterior.

[hsmith19]

Why do you care where the preseason polls had us ranked? Everyone who followed the program knew those SLU teams were going to be very good. He didn't outperform those expectations.

Haith's first Mizzou team started the season ranked 25th. Over the whole season Haith's team way outperformed that ranking. The truth is that team was always better than the 25th ranking and never as good as the #2 ranking. Just like we were never as good as our #10 ranking last season.

If you don't care about falling short of, meeting, or exceeding expectations, then I agree it makes no sense to talk about expectations.

Which begs the questions of why you felt the need to compare Crews' and Haith's expectations to begin with. I suspect you just felt the need to be sensational. Everybody who reads these boards knows the real reasons Haith is considered a joke here, and none of them have anything to do with people criticizing Crews for totally different reasons. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Jim Crews, but being too much like Frank Haith is not one of them.

Going back to the two flavors of criticism I mentioned above, I would have loved to have had Haith here as a recruiter, if it wasn't for the fact that he broke the rules to do it. No one ever doubted or criticized Haith's ability to bring high-ceiling talent to Mizzou. No thanks to Haith the in-game strategist, though.

[Dwayne's_World]

It's absolutely too early to form conclusions, but you have to monitor the situation as it goes rather than react when it's too late.

The reality is, Crews won't be here that much longer regardless. From what I understood, he had a 3 year deal (last year being year 1) with 2 mutual options after that. Crews enjoyed retirement and he came into a great situation and was convinced to keep going. But I don't think he's someone who wants to coach into his late 60's or 70's.

I thought we had Crews on a 5 year contract? Regardless, I think firing and hiring is a bad way to go. This program needs consistency. The problem is, who does the AD hire after Crews? I honestly don't think any of our assistants are good enough to be promoted, and it doesn't appear that there are too many good HC's available

[brianstl]

If you don't care about falling short of, meeting, or exceeding expectations, then I agree it makes no sense to talk about expectations.

Which begs the questions of why you felt the need to compare Crews' and Haith's expectations to begin with. I suspect you just felt the need to be sensational. Everybody who reads these boards knows the real reasons Haith is considered a joke here, and none of them have anything to do with people criticizing Crews for totally different reasons. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Jim Crews, but being too much like Frank Haith is not one of them.

Going back to the two flavors of criticism I mentioned above, I would have loved to have had Haith here as a recruiter, if it wasn't for the fact that he broke the rules to do it. No one ever doubted or criticized Haith's ability to bring high-ceiling talent to Mizzou. No thanks to Haith the in-game strategist, though.

Their records on the court are very comparable. Two years producing results that got people excited followed by a big fall off the third year. Both inherited similar roster situations.

Haith was chided as much for his results as anything else. I never said that Jim Crews was too much like Frank Haith the person. I compared the results they delivered on the basketball court. If you want to go into the stuff off the court, I guess we could. Crews never had some of the issues Haith did. That said, Crews record isn't spotless either.

[slufan13]

I thought we had Crews on a 5 year contract? Regardless, I think firing and hiring is a bad way to go. This program needs consistency. The problem is, who does the AD hire after Crews? I honestly don't think any of our assistants are good enough to be promoted, and it doesn't appear that there are too many good HC's available

I mean it's basically a 5 year deal. I think the "2 mutual options" were pretty set in stone. Just there barring disaster or if Crews just simply couldn't coach anymore.

Not talking to you or anyone in particular, but I don't see any scenario where Crews gets fired (barring something ridiculous). But it's absolutely fair to criticize him and doubt him. Coaches always get too much credit and too much criticism. He got too much credit the last 2 years (although 2 years ago he did a great job as a leader of the team), and this year he's getting too much criticism from some people (me included). But he still deserves some credit and some criticism no matter what he did in the past.

[brianstl]

Lets stop this everybody expected us to fall apart after Majerus left stuff and that Haith took over a much better situation stuff, too. We were ranked 27th in the USA Today coaches poll heading into the 12-13 season. That was Crews first season. Mizzou was ranked 25th in that same preseason poll in 11-12. That was Haith's first season. It looks like both programs had pretty similar expectation heading into the first season of both Crews and Haith.

[Clock_Tower]

What I thought about that team's freshmen at this time was JJ was a turnover machine, Mc Call was good, Evans was e rebounder with a nose for the ball showing overall potential, Loe had an outside shot and ball skills for a big guy but the rest of his game was weak.

They all developed into good players, but what really made them standout was their commitment to defense.

With this group Yarborough is a better player than anyone in that freshman group. Roby is better than Jett at this stage because he isn't a turnover machine and can defend as well as freshman Jett could. Loe and Gillmann have similar skill sets but Loe was far more ready as a freshman because he had better size, strength and better outside shot. Haven't figured out Bartley, Reynolds and Jolly yet but each has flashed some potential and none appear to be out of their league athletically. Overall, this class has the potential to be better than that class because of the numbers, but the only way they do it is if they buy in and develop defensively like the 2010 class. That is how this program equalizes the talent gap, defense.

Your general assessments are generally correct; however, RL was very weak his freshman year. Honestly, I would have to say that AG is every bit as strong, if not stronger, than RL was on the interior his Freshman year. Yes, RL could shoot from the outside (then again AG is not bad either but probably not as good as RL was as a Frosh) but RL was not good on the interior (offense and defense) and was not a very good rebounder either as a Frosh. And yes, while DE turned into a really nice player for us, he greatly improved from his Freshman year when he was not so strong, undersized and frankly struggled to finish.

[Clock_Tower]

Just to be clear. I am not panicking or calling for JC's head. At the same time, I do have some real questions:

1. What is JC's plan for our PG? I certainly do not blame JC for the loss of Keith Carter. I also don't think a 9 ppg average for a MAC team is all that impressive and certainly not nearly as good as the figures put up by Jake Barnett and Austin McBroom. But Carter left over 2 years ago, AM is not a true PG and no one knows what AM can do (and not do) more than JC who has coached AM for this, his third year at SLU. We knew that we were losing MM, JJ and JB after last year so obviously JC must have thought someone on our current roster is our PG. Further, JC has already filled his 2 remaining scholarships for next year with 2 bigs so obviously JC's plan is that next year's PG is also on our current roster. Who is it?

2. Why sign 2 more bigs for next year? Yes, we are losing JM and GG but we already have AG, BJ, TL, RA and MY. I am pleased to sign Neufeld but Welmer? Is he going to be another Jolly? Shouldn't we have a backup for point guard? shooting guard? 7 of our 13 guys are bigs both this year and next year??

3. Who is our outshooter again next year? Again, I doubt that Welmer or Neufeld will be the outside threat which means, again, that the answer must be on our current roster? So far, the only real threat is AM with Ash now becoming more comfortable. At the same time, both are decent shooters (AM is great but becomes average when guarded by better/taller guards in league play) but both will be Seniors so will we be relying upon Freshmen to do the outside shooting for us in 2 years? When does the rebuild end?

[SpencerFilibuster]

Before the start of the season, I thought we'd have some major growing pains, but didn't think our record would be this bad at this point of the season. Before it all began, I thought it would be a lot of fun to watch a different group of guys try to succeed on the court as Billikens. We were going to miss the guys that had played for 4 years, but I was excited to see some fresh faces.

Then the season started. The first couple games were a lot of fun to see all the new players getting minutes, and we were seeing all kinds of promise. Then the inexperience started to bleed through, and the losses started piling up. Crews insisted on giving extended minutes to all of the players, even through the hard times. As a fan, it was hard to make sense of everything that was happening on the court, especially since the constant lineup changes caused a lack of flow between the players. I wasn't having as much fun watching this new-look Billiken squad as I thought I would, and it was hard to watch.

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

I don't know how Crews allocates time or energy towards defense vs. offense. But from what it seems, that an understanding of the defensive scheme plays a large role in getting minutes on the court. I guessing that with such a young team, that their focus is largely on defense. I'm imagining that once the team starts to adopt the defense, and know it like the back of their hand, that more and more time will be dedicated to polishing the offense.

Having said that, I'm surprised that there are so many people on this board that aren't taking notice of the positive things that are happening in the last few games.

To me, winning the last 5 minutes of a close game is an art form. There are a lot of elements that go into the last 5 minutes. Expert level type of stuff. I see the Billikens starting to turn the corner, and the experience needed to win the end of a game will eventually come.

[Dwayne's_World]

Before the start of the season, I thought we'd have some major growing pains, but didn't think our record would be this bad at this point of the season. Before it all began, I thought it would be a lot of fun to watch a different group of guys try to succeed on the court as Billikens. We were going to miss the guys that had played for 4 years, but I was excited to see some fresh faces.

Then the season started. The first couple games were a lot of fun to see all the new players getting minutes, and we were seeing all kinds of promise. Then the inexperience started to bleed through, and the losses started piling up. Crews insisted on giving extended minutes to all of the players, even through the hard times. As a fan, it was hard to make sense of everything that was happening on the court, especially since the constant lineup changes caused a lack of flow between the players. I wasn't having as much fun watching this new-look Billiken squad as I thought I would, and it was hard to watch.

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

I don't know how Crews allocates time or energy towards defense vs. offense. But from what it seems, that an understanding of the defensive scheme plays a large role in getting minutes on the court. I guessing that with such a young team, that their focus is largely on defense. I'm imagining that once the team starts to adopt the defense, and know it like the back of their hand, that more and more time will be dedicated to polishing the offense.

Having said that, I'm surprised that there are so many people on this board that aren't taking notice of the positive things that are happening in the last few games.

To me, winning the last 5 minutes of a close game is an art form. There are a lot of elements that go into the last 5 minutes. Expert level type of stuff. I see the Billikens starting to turn the corner, and the experience needed to win the end of a game will eventually come.

Finally a voice of reason.

[WeBsTa03]

Before the start of the season, I thought we'd have some major growing pains, but didn't think our record would be this bad at this point of the season. Before it all began, I thought it would be a lot of fun to watch a different group of guys try to succeed on the court as Billikens. We were going to miss the guys that had played for 4 years, but I was excited to see some fresh faces.

Then the season started. The first couple games were a lot of fun to see all the new players getting minutes, and we were seeing all kinds of promise. Then the inexperience started to bleed through, and the losses started piling up. Crews insisted on giving extended minutes to all of the players, even through the hard times. As a fan, it was hard to make sense of everything that was happening on the court, especially since the constant lineup changes caused a lack of flow between the players. I wasn't having as much fun watching this new-look Billiken squad as I thought I would, and it was hard to watch.

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

I don't know how Crews allocates time or energy towards defense vs. offense. But from what it seems, that an understanding of the defensive scheme plays a large role in getting minutes on the court. I guessing that with such a young team, that their focus is largely on defense. I'm imagining that once the team starts to adopt the defense, and know it like the back of their hand, that more and more time will be dedicated to polishing the offense.

Having said that, I'm surprised that there are so many people on this board that aren't taking notice of the positive things that are happening in the last few games.

To me, winning the last 5 minutes of a close game is an art form. There are a lot of elements that go into the last 5 minutes. Expert level type of stuff. I see the Billikens starting to turn the corner, and the experience needed to win the end of a game will eventually come.

Great analysis! This team is really young and they are improving every game. People are only noticing their mistakes because they are coming at the worst possible times. Let's also stop comparing this group of freshman to last years polished upper classmen. We are going have some good years ahead of us soon. Back in the day no one would have said anything about the progress of freshmen. In today's society we all want instant results.

[Box and Won]

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

Most definitely. The difference has been noticeable. I've been particularly impressed by Roby's defense in the last few games.

[2010andBeyond]

Before the start of the season, I thought we'd have some major growing pains, but didn't think our record would be this bad at this point of the season. Before it all began, I thought it would be a lot of fun to watch a different group of guys try to succeed on the court as Billikens. We were going to miss the guys that had played for 4 years, but I was excited to see some fresh faces.

Then the season started. The first couple games were a lot of fun to see all the new players getting minutes, and we were seeing all kinds of promise. Then the inexperience started to bleed through, and the losses started piling up. Crews insisted on giving extended minutes to all of the players, even through the hard times. As a fan, it was hard to make sense of everything that was happening on the court, especially since the constant lineup changes caused a lack of flow between the players. I wasn't having as much fun watching this new-look Billiken squad as I thought I would, and it was hard to watch.

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

I don't know how Crews allocates time or energy towards defense vs. offense. But from what it seems, that an understanding of the defensive scheme plays a large role in getting minutes on the court. I guessing that with such a young team, that their focus is largely on defense. I'm imagining that once the team starts to adopt the defense, and know it like the back of their hand, that more and more time will be dedicated to polishing the offense.

Having said that, I'm surprised that there are so many people on this board that aren't taking notice of the positive things that are happening in the last few games.

To me, winning the last 5 minutes of a close game is an art form. There are a lot of elements that go into the last 5 minutes. Expert level type of stuff. I see the Billikens starting to turn the corner, and the experience needed to win the end of a game will eventually come.

Great post!

[Billikenboy]

Before the start of the season, I thought we'd have some major growing pains, but didn't think our record would be this bad at this point of the season. Before it all began, I thought it would be a lot of fun to watch a different group of guys try to succeed on the court as Billikens. We were going to miss the guys that had played for 4 years, but I was excited to see some fresh faces.

Then the season started. The first couple games were a lot of fun to see all the new players getting minutes, and we were seeing all kinds of promise. Then the inexperience started to bleed through, and the losses started piling up. Crews insisted on giving extended minutes to all of the players, even through the hard times. As a fan, it was hard to make sense of everything that was happening on the court, especially since the constant lineup changes caused a lack of flow between the players. I wasn't having as much fun watching this new-look Billiken squad as I thought I would, and it was hard to watch.

Then for the last few games, the roster started to take more shape, and is starting to make more sense. The rotation(s) that Crews is employing (outside of the TL thing in the RI game) is starting to look more like he intends to compete in the current game, not just trying things out and experimenting for the future. There were actually many times in the Rhode Island game where I was watching our defense, and I could see the young players starting to do the polished things we have come to expect as Billiken fans. We had many great defensive stops, people were rotating, positioning themselves in smart ways, and doing the right thing more often than they have thus far this season. Some of that would change when substitutions were made, and we'd lose that defensive cohesion, but for the most part, I could see a noticeable change for the better during that game. It seemed like there were many instances where our players were clearly following orders, and that the execution of those orders were paying off in real-time (charges, driving to the hoop, getting fouled, etc). In order for this to happen, the players needed to process and act immediately instead of over-thinking.

I don't know how Crews allocates time or energy towards defense vs. offense. But from what it seems, that an understanding of the defensive scheme plays a large role in getting minutes on the court. I guessing that with such a young team, that their focus is largely on defense. I'm imagining that once the team starts to adopt the defense, and know it like the back of their hand, that more and more time will be dedicated to polishing the offense.

Having said that, I'm surprised that there are so many people on this board that aren't taking notice of the positive things that are happening in the last few games.

To me, winning the last 5 minutes of a close game is an art form. There are a lot of elements that go into the last 5 minutes. Expert level type of stuff. I see the Billikens starting to turn the corner, and the experience needed to win the end of a game will eventually come.

Most on this board can learn alot from you. Hard to believe in a obvious growth year there is so much whining and finger pointing when game by game the successes and failures are so different. Just accept that this team will be much better next year. Yes Sophs will be even better also.

[WestCoastBilliken]

This group of freshman (if all, or most stay through the times) will be a better basketball group then the group we just lost. Can we postmark this thread for revisiting in 2 years?

[slu72]

Like Spencer's analysis, but still it's the SO class that is the problem. The FR have contributed more, a lot more. They've got to get it going. Not just for this sesson, but, more importantly, for next year.

[Billikenboy]

Like Spencer's analysis, but still it's the SO class that is the problem. The FR have contributed more, a lot more. They've got to get it going. Not just for this sesson, but, more importantly, for next year.

True statement. Everyone is needed going forward but I suspect we will keep pulling our hair out for awhile.