RiseAndGrind Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Honestly, I think K's recent recruiting just highlights how bad of a coaching job he did this past season. I don't care about lack of size - you should not ever lose to a 14 when you're fielding two probable lottery picks (one of which appears a lock to be taken in the top 3). And K's coaching throughout the regular reason really wasn't that great, either. He failed to adjust to the new hand-check rules, and never really modified the defense to fit his personnel (which were clearly not getting it). His one major moment of genius (the hockey-style rotations) was quickly abandoned, and, in any case, was a lone bright spot in the general misuse of his personnel (looking at you, Plumlee and Semi). I could go on, but this is a SLU board. The point is, though, that if we're all being honest with ourselves, K needs a bounceback season to get back into that top 5/top 3 grouping. (Though I never understand why some of these other guys - looking at you, Izzo - also seem to get a free ticket into that group.) IZZO!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 IZZO!?!? He's generally a great coach, but not always. His teams underperform in some years; he misses on a lot of recruits. If we're looking at lifetime body of work, he's definitely in that top 5/top 3 grouping, but (like K) his past accomplishments can lead people to put him in a more positive light when comparing recent work. I'd definitely put K in the running (along with Wooden) for greatest ever, but that doesn't change the fact that he's coming off a pretty rough season coaching-wise. Same arguments apply to Izzo. (Or, in other words, if we're looking at what you've done lately, then you're only as good as what you've done lately.) For what it's worth, for my money, Donovan's the best in the game at this point in time. Honorable mention to Bill Self and Sean Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 He's generally a great coach, but not always. His teams underperform in some years; he misses on a lot of recruits. If we're looking at lifetime body of work, he's definitely in that top 5/top 3 grouping, but (like K) his past accomplishments can lead people to put him in a more positive light when comparing recent work. I'd definitely put K in the running (along with Wooden) for greatest ever, but that doesn't change the fact that he's coming off a pretty rough season coaching-wise. Same arguments apply to Izzo. (Or, in other words, if we're looking at what you've done lately, then you're only as good as what you've done lately.) For what it's worth, for my money, Donovan's the best in the game at this point in time. Honorable mention to Bill Self and Sean Miller. Sean Miller?????????????? You just questioned Coach K and Izzo, and say Sean Miller is an honorable mention for best in the game right now? HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (Since sludevil wants to talk about recent success) Last 5 years: Izzo: Elite eight, sweet sixteen, sweet sixteen, second round, final four K: First round, elite eight, first round, sweet sixteen, national champions (plus add in that he coached the US team to Gold) Sean Miller: Elite eight, sweet sixteen, NIT first round, elite eight, no tournament Sean Miller's name shouldn't even be uttered in the same sentence as the other 2 until he can get his extremely talented teams to a final four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 First, you're going back even farther in time than I was considering; I was talking about right now, at this point in time - taking into account the last season, maybe the last two if we're being generous. If we're talking about the last 5 or 10 years or basing it on lifetime achievement, then Miller is not in the same grouping as Izzo or K. But if we're talking about what you've done for me lately, and what you're poised to do in the immediate future, then Sean Miller is definitely top 5. Second, I think coaching ability is more subjective than just tournament wins. I agree that wins count for a lot, but I'm not ready to start and end the discussion with Calipari, nor am I ready to write off a Jim Larranaga just because he's at Miami and not Duke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 First, you're going back even farther in time than I was considering; I was talking about right now, at this point in time - taking into account the last season, maybe the last two if we're being generous. If we're talking about the last 5 or 10 years or basing it on lifetime achievement, then Miller is not in the same grouping as Izzo or K. But if we're talking about what you've done for me lately, and what you're poised to do in the immediate future, then Sean Miller is definitely top 5. Second, I think coaching ability is more subjective than just tournament wins. I agree that wins count for a lot, but I'm not ready to start and end the discussion with Calipari, nor am I ready to write off a Jim Larranaga just because he's at Miami and not Duke. Now you're confusing me even more. You say right now and then bring up Jim Larranaga? And then you say what have you done for me lately. What has Sean Miller done lately that makes him one of the top coaches in the nation? Whether you like it or not, in order to try to judge coaches you have to look at what they have actually accomplished. The last 5 years is pretty recent, and if we went back further those guys would look even better (obviously). There is no criteria you can develop that would place Sean Miller in the top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Porter Moser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Now you're confusing me even more. You say right now and then bring up Jim Larranaga? And then you say what have you done for me lately. What has Sean Miller done lately that makes him one of the top coaches in the nation? Whether you like it or not, in order to try to judge coaches you have to look at what they have actually accomplished. The last 5 years is pretty recent, and if we went back further those guys would look even better (obviously). There is no criteria you can develop that would place Sean Miller in the top 5. Yeah dude, Larranaga's Miami team radically overperformed its talent last season. (And, obviously, they were pretty good the season before that, too.) I don't think Larranaga's in the running for top 5, but he's a good coach who has proven as much in the last one or two seasons. Sean Miller is one of the best recruiters in college basketball, and is a good game coach. That alone should put him in the conversation. And when you take into account that there really aren't that many elite-level coaches out there right now who have coached at an elite level in the last one or two seasons, I'm not sure what more you want. (Hell, should K be top 5? From someone who watched every Duke game of the last two seasons, I don't think so.) For what it's worth, we should probably throw Pitino in the discussion, too (although there are definitely some valid questions about his recruiting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Rick Majerus. RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 How slow it for Billiken BB topics when the top thread for the past couple of days has been one entitled Quin Snyder to jazz? (I just made it worse by adding to this thread) Can't we find anything to talk about that relates to Billiken BB??? Hell, I'd even welcome why NB is not coming to SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 How slow it for Billiken BB topics when the top thread for the past couple of days has been one entitled Quin Snyder to jazz? (I just made it worse by adding to this thread) Can't we find anything to talk about that relates to Billiken BB??? Hell, I'd even welcome why NB is not coming to SLU. -okay, when are SaintSations tryouts? anyone have pics or vids of the new squad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 -okay, when are SaintSations tryouts? anyone have pics or vids of the new squad? now we're talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 no way is coach K better at least on paper than Wooden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 You know what I miss most about Roy not being here? His use of scum in front of Sutton and Calipari as an honorific. eddie scum sutton and scum calipari.......those were the days........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 no way is coach K better at least on paper than Wooden Current coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 You know what I miss most about Roy not being here? His use of scum in front of Sutton and Calipari as an honorific. eddie scum sutton and scum calipari.......those were the days........ I like MB's use of "boring" before soccer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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