Dwayne's_World Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Haha! Sure it is. He realizes WSU is a better program now and that he can do much better than SPUMAC in the future... and the HUGE pile of money they tried to throw at him couldn't change his mind. More like the HUGE pile of $hit program they tried to throw at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Lets be honest, a few really good seasons does not make Wichita State a better program than Missouri. Sure they made a huge run two seasons ago and followed it up with a great season this year and will be good again next season, but a couple of good seasons does not make them the better program. The Missouri Valley is garbage and he would be wise to jump ship as soon as his team gets bounced from the tournament next spring. Yes, let's be honest. I believe from some of your past posts you are also a Mizzou fan, but try to look at it objectively. Nothing I said is untrue. Wichita State IS a better program now. A Final Four appearance followed up by a Number 1 seed - pretty sure Mizzou has NEVER done that. Wichita State has huge fan and booster support, better than a lot of BCS programs. Thinking Marshall would jump to a job like Mizzou was delusional and a big pile of cash wasn't going to change that. The Mizzou program has appeared to be quite dysfunctional under Alden. There have been some flashes of oncourt success, but a lot more scandals, plus the last two coaches leave. You settle for Haith after Painter uses you to get a raise. You go from Snyder to Anderson to Haith to a Division II coach - that is not trending in the right way. We are to believe that Marshall was a viable plan A and Plan B was a D 2 coach? Come on. The job is not as attractice as a lot of Mizzou fans like to think it is. This story floating out there about Alden making a big run at Marshall is just him trying to save face. Maybe the D 2 coach will get things up and running, but at this point, no doubt WSU is a better program. Regarding conference affiliation, yes the Valley sux, but Gonzaga has been able to put together a sustained run of success out of the WCC - a run better than anything Mizzou has done. No reason to believe Marshall can't do the same thing in the league he is in. Marshall can wait for a job like Kentucky, Kansas or North Carolina. He was not going to mess with the mess at Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Yes, let's be honest. I believe from some of your past posts you are also a Mizzou fan, but try to look at it objectively. I have identified myself as a fan of both programs and have never hiden that. I think you are wrong, but I don't care to argue with you since it really doesn't matter. If you ask people within the college basketball community they would tell you that Mizzou is a good job and a better program than Wichita State regardless of the recent success the Shockers are having (one huge tournament run followed by a great season). I like your narrative though, I love the faction of the Billiken fanbase that hates Mizzou so vehemently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I have identified myself as a fan of both programs and have never hiden that. I think you are wrong, but I don't care to argue with you since it really doesn't matter. If you ask people within the college basketball community they would tell you that Mizzou is a good job and a better program than Wichita State regardless of the recent success the Shockers are having (one huge tournament run followed by a great season). I like your narrative though, I love the faction of the Billiken fanbase that hates Mizzou so vehemently. Don't really hate Mizzou, just delusional Mizzou fans who think their program is more than it is. If some of the Mizzou faithful are delusional enough to really think Marshall was a viable option, have at it. There hasn't exactly been a lot of stability in the program. MAnderson was constantly flirting with other jobs and when the job opened up then, it didn't exactly attract a long list of great candidates. Haith was the best you could get? In the last 15 years, Mizzou has only finished better than 5th in their conference twice. It's closer to a mid-level BCS program than a big time program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Don't really hate Mizzou, just delusional Mizzou fans who think their program is more than it is. If some of the Mizzou faithful are delusional enough to really think Marshall was a viable option, have at it. There hasn't exactly been a lot of stability in the program. MAnderson was constantly flirting with other jobs and when the job opened up then, it didn't exactly attract a long list of great candidates. Haith was the best you could get? In the last 15 years, Mizzou has only finished better than 5th in their conference twice. It's closer to a mid-level BCS program than a big time program. I don't recall many Mizzou fans running around thinking that Marshall was going to be their next coach, so I think you are playing that up to further your opinion that Mizzou fans are delusional. I think most if not all Mizzou fans realized that Marshall was an extreme long shot, but the only people that know how much so are Marshall and Alden. It sounds like they made a solid play for him and he at least had some interest which is actually more than I expected since I assumed he would have zero interest. Mizzou is a good program, not a great program. I think some Mizzou fans may overvalue their program, but it is still a good program nationally and a better program than Wichita State of the Missouri Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I don't recall many Mizzou fans running around thinking that Marshall was going to be their next coach, so I think you are playing that up to further your opinion that Mizzou fans are delusional. I think most if not all Mizzou fans realized that Marshall was an extreme long shot, but the only people that know how much so are Marshall and Alden. It sounds like they made a solid play for him and he at least had some interest which is actually more than I expected since I assumed he would have zero interest. Mizzou is a good program, not a great program. I think some Mizzou fans may overvalue their program, but it is still a good program nationally and a better program than Wichita State of the Missouri Valley. I guess you don't read Tigerboard or listen to the radio (good for you if that's the case)... PLENTY of delusional Tiger fans and media talking up their chances of landing Marshall. Obvioulsy Marshall determined that WSU is a better program and that's what's most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Marshall can do a lot better than Mizzou. Right now at this very moment, Wichita St is the better job. Haith left that program in some trouble. I could make a case for Wichita St being a better job than Mizzou because Mizzou is a football first school. Coaches aren't the biggest fans of that. They want the full commitment to their basketball program. And let's look at the Champions since 2000. 2000 Michigan St - basketball first 2001 Duke - basketball first 2002 Maryland - basketball first 2003 Syracuse - basketball first 2004 UConn - basketball first 2005 UNC - basketball first 2006 Florida - football first 2007 Florida - football first 2008 Kansas - basketball first 2009 UNC - basketball first 2010 Duke - basketball first 2011 UConn - basketball first 2012 Kentucky - basketball first 2013 Louisville - basketball frist 2014 UConn - basketball first Meanwhile the majority of football first schools in the SEC, Pac 12, Big10 aren't having huge success. Notice how guys like Chris Mack, Gregg Marshall, Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart turn down big offers from BCS schools. They can win at their school and they can be the focal point of athletics. Also just because Wichita St is in the MVC doesn't mean that WSU isn't a good job. Gonzaga dominates the WCC every year and Gonzaga is certainly a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Marshall can do a lot better than Mizzou. Right now at this very moment, Wichita St is the better job. Haith left that program in some trouble. I could make a case for Wichita St being a better job than Mizzou because Mizzou is a football first school. Coaches aren't the biggest fans of that. They want the full commitment to their basketball program. And let's look at the Champions since 2000. 2000 Michigan St - basketball first 2001 Duke - basketball first 2002 Maryland - basketball first 2003 Syracuse - basketball first 2004 UConn - basketball first 2005 UNC - basketball first 2006 Florida - football first 2007 Florida - football first 2008 Kansas - basketball first 2009 UNC - basketball first 2010 Duke - basketball first 2011 UConn - basketball first 2012 Kentucky - basketball first 2013 Louisville - basketball frist 2014 UConn - basketball first Meanwhile the majority of football first schools in the SEC, Pac 12, Big10 aren't having huge success. Notice how guys like Chris Mack, Gregg Marshall, Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart turn down big offers from BCS schools. They can win at their school and they can be the focal point of athletics. Also just because Wichita St is in the MVC doesn't mean that WSU isn't a good job. Gonzaga dominates the WCC every year and Gonzaga is certainly a good job. +1 There have been a few good articles and interviews that make this very point. The days of mediocre BCS programs thinking they can easily pluck the top non-BCS coaches are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wichita State isn't a bad program, but Mizzou is definitely a notch or two above. Mizzou has significantly more NCAA tournament appearances (26 v. 11) and tournament wins (22 v. 13) (though, in fairness, WSU has 2 Final Fours to Mizzou's goose egg). There's something to be said for playing on a bigger stage, against better competition, and with a larger budget, too. I just said I could make an argument. I don't know if I really want to, but it is do-able. Also - the MVC historically was a very strong conference with Memphis, Cincinnati, etc. involved. The 80's featured some really great teams as well. Wichita State has a BCS level budget. I don't think you can really trust all the numbers released, but they say WSU spends 5.3 million on mens basketball and Mizzou spends 6.3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 +1 There have been a few good articles and interviews that make this very point. The days of mediocre BCS programs thinking they can easily pluck the top non-BCS coaches are over. Mid and low level BCS schools with unrealistic expectations are ruining it. Schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota around here have hired flavor of the month coaches and given them 3 years to make historically mediocre programs into contenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I have identified myself as a fan of both programs and have never hiden that. I think you are wrong, but I don't care to argue with you since it really doesn't matter. If you ask people within the college basketball community they would tell you that Mizzou is a good job and a better program than Wichita State regardless of the recent success the Shockers are having (one huge tournament run followed by a great season). I like your narrative though, I love the faction of the Billiken fanbase that hates Mizzou so vehemently. The Wichita state is a better program narrative meshes well with SLU is a better program narrative so it'll be a popular one here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The Wichita state is a better program narrative meshes well with SLU is a better program narrative so it'll be a popular one here. Wichita St is a better program than both SLU and Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wichita St is a better program than both SLU and Mizzou. Wichita St has had a better couple of years than SLU and Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wichita St has had a better couple of years than SLU and Mizzou. If you base everything off historic success then you'll be putting a lot of pretty bad teams ahead of SLU, Mizzou, and Wichita St Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 If you base everything off historic success then you'll be putting a lot of pretty bad teams ahead of SLU, Mizzou, and Wichita St Not everything certainly but Wichita State has also had a better couple years than Indiana and UCLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I think we can all agree that the Wichita State and SLU basketball programs are currently both in much better shape than SPUMAC basketball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The Wichita state is a better program narrative meshes well with SLU is a better program narrative so it'll be a popular one here. Well, thank you for contributing to the Mizzou fans are delustional narrative. Marshall clearly believes WSU is a better program. Did you see a bunch of good candidates lining up to work for Alden in the last two coaching searches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Well, thank you for contributing to the Mizzou fans are delustional narrative. Marshall clearly believes WSU is a better program. Did you see a bunch of good candidates lining up to work for Alden in the last two coaching searches? I don't think situation=program so maybe that's why you think I'm delusional? Marshall had no reason to leave WSU but that doesn't make it a better program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wichita St has had a better couple of years than SLU and Mizzou. WSU has two Final Fours compared to Mizzou's zero. Mizzou has the advantage in elite 8s at five to four. Wichita St.has won a conference title 3 times in the last decade. Mizzou has zero in the last 20 years. In the last decade Wichita St has advanced to at least the second weekend of the tournament twice. Mizzou has done it once. Wichita St. has won seven NCAA tournament games in the past decade and Mizzou has won 4. Wichita St is the better basketball program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 WSU has two Final Fours compared to Mizzou's zero. Mizzou has the advantage in elite 8s at five to four. Wichita St.has won a conference title 3 times in the last decade. Mizzou hasn't has zero in the last 20 years. In the last decade Wichita St has advanced to at least the second weekend of the tournament twice. Mizzou has done it once. Wichita St. has won seven NCAA tournament games in the past decade and Mizzou has won 4. Wichita St is the better basketball program. I don't think I'll indulge you by cherry picking my own random years and stats to support my argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Curious to see the reasoning of those who say Mizzou is a better program than Wichita St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I don't think I'll indulge you by cherry picking my own random years and stats to support my argument. Mizzou was the better basketball program 20 years ago. Those days are over. Tons of damage has been done to that program over the last 15 years. Tons. Hell, 20 years UNLV was one of the top 10 basketball programs in the country. Those days are over too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Mizzou was the better basketball program 20 years ago. Those days are over. Tons of damage has been done to that program over the last 15 years. Tons. Hell, 20 years UNLV was one of the top 10 basketball programs in the country. Those days are over too. The last 15 years: Since 2000-2001: Wins- Mizzou 317, WSU 302 NCAA Tournament Wins- Mizzou 9, WSU 7 NCAA Tournament Appearances- Mizzou 8, WSU 4 NCAA Final Fours- Mizzou 0, WSU 1 Not to mention that for 13 of those years Mizzou was playing in by far a tougher conference, and for the last 2 a comparable one. I'm really not trying to take anything away from WSU but outside of the last 2 years they've been pretty unremarkable, and one two year run does not a program make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The last 15 years or 2 years play out a lot like their entire history. Mizzou has a slight advantage in winning % all time. Wichita has the higher levels of success. Wichita's worst team out of the last 4 years was actually the one that made the Final 4, so it isn't exactly just a 2 year run. The 2011 team won the NIT, the 2012 team had a great record, #5 seed, and bounced early in the tournament. The 2013 team was a final 4 team. The 2014 team we all know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Overall, Missouri has had a better program than Wichita State, the last 15-20 years, sure. The vast majority of mid majors have their "runs", but then slide back into mediocrity. Sure, Gonzaga and Xavier and a select few have had good, long runs, somehow. But SIU-C, MO State, George Mason, Butler, Drake, et al have had nice runs then collapse, whereas schools with big money in power conferences can thrive after a few bad years. Playing in a power conference is a huge recruiting advantage, Anderson is a good x & o coach but was D-2 for 15 years and probably will not attract top talent so Missouri will be mediocre by their standards, maybe make the NCAA's here and there until the athletic program cleans up (football and basketball scandals). It will take awhile, but they will recover and get back into the fray, get a new power coach after 2-3-4 years of Anderson, a safe "plug". Wichita State has been an overachiever with a good program for quite some time, now is really thriving under Marshall. In a few years, he will probably leave and they will slip. Marshall would have been a fool to leave for a shaky situation at Missouri. Will Alden survive? Will there be further revelations with the known scandals and cover ups? Marshall can sit tight and wait and get a much better job if he wishes in a few years. I do not like Missouri at all, they refuse to play us for PR reasons, the illusion of superiority is in play.. if they win, they are supposed to win, they are state funded loaded with cash in a power conference... so they do not win. If they lose, they lose. They cannot win. (Raging Bull?) Man up and play us, Alden, you sissy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.