The Rotation (Bigs)

[billiken_roy]

So I guess Barnett is the backup to all three of these guys then? It seems you are requesting that the team play these three guards at the same time with little, if any, depth behind them. That seems to me to be a recipe for a very tired backcourt. Also, you are pushing for a very small 3-guard set. The other teams you are pointing to may play a lot of guards at the same time, but typically they are utilizing more 'big guards (6'3" and over). None of the three you recommend playing at the same time are over 6'1". That is really just going super-small the majority of the time when you really don't have to.

IMO, Jett, McCall and McBroom need to rotate in the 1/2 spots to keep each other fresh, while Barnett would be the primary backup to Evans (and perhaps get a little time at the 2). You have two 6'8"+ freshmen coming in that are 3* recruits with minutes to fill at the 4. You also have Glaze (who you hate) who played minutes at the 4 last season. While you may like the 'best 5' lineup out there, per the recruiting and the current makeup of the roster, it doesn't appear that Crews is going to push the super-small lineup that you think works best. Evans will play with 2 guards, either Agbeko or Lancona is going to crack the regular rotation, and either Glaze or Manning (maybe both) are going to see their minutes increase.

between, the other bigs coming in and allowing evans to move to a guard spot, or playing barnett or crawford, they will be able to adequately cover the needed 5-8 minutes a half for the three positions.

[ARon]

Ya, and if my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle! Seriously, to all of the posters who see GG being able to help this year, I repeat, what possible indication is there that that is even possible? What has he done even average? I'll give you that he might be of value in practice, but not in a game

So where is all this footage of either of the freshman dominating against mid to high level division 1 talent that proves they are absolutely better than Grandy? Are you the only one that has seen it?

I don't expect Glaze will have a lot to contribute offensively either but at least he has 2 years in the defense to bring to the table.

People are always obsessed with giving freshmen with a decent looking shot playing time over experienced players who will play defense. What will it take for people to see the focus this system has, and will continue to, place on defense first?

To Win

Defend

Rebound

[Littlebill]

I love how people are completely discounting Glaze. Never mind the team started winning when he was inserted into the lineup.

Down with Glaze!

Yes. He was the true key to success. *rolls eyes*

[slufanskip]

i am not worrying. i am saying i want the best players on the floor. i contend there is a huge difference between our top players and the rest and thus to cover a spot with these lesser players just so our best player can have a slightly better advantage while on the floor (i think evans is so good, it doesnt really matter. he will pretty much be the same player regardless. he is the player the other team adjusts to). if i am wrong and the freshmen, or glaze or manning or even barnett are significantly very much better than i expect, then we can be more of a traditional team.

the 5 best players regardless of position?

Basketball just doesn't work that way

And I may be in the minority, but I say Evans isn't the player matched up against an opposing 4 as he is a 3.

[kshoe]

This feels like deja vu all over again.

I could have sworn that last summer there were some very long arguments from Roy (and others) that Dwayne Evans should be playing the 4 because we had so many guards and we "had to get our best 5 on the floor." The argument started with a statement that Evans played a bunch of minutes at the 4 his sophomore year so it should continue. When it was proven that statistically he couldn't have played many minutes at the 4 (because of all the minutes the traditional bigs had during that year) it became a matter of making sure our best 5 players saw as much playing time together no matter what positions they actually played.

Then last year happened and Evans played nearly the entire season at the 3 spot and we played 2 traditional guards and 2 traditional bigs and it worked fabulously. Now, the same poster(s) are back saying we need to convert Evans to a 4 and go with a 3 guard offense. When will we learn!?!?!?

[b.hayes]

If Glaze played 12 minutes per game as I believe I saw, and people are expecting him not to play at all this year, then these freshmen must be really good as we also need to replace 44 minutes from Cody and Cory plus the 12 from Grandy.

[kshoe]

If Glaze played 12 minutes per game as I believe I saw, and people are expecting him not to play at all this year, then these freshmen must be really good as we also need to replace 44 minutes from Cody and Cory plus the 12 from Grandy.

Don't worry, some of the same people bashing on Glaze thought Ian Vouyoukas would never be a good player...

[jbizzle09]

i am not worrying. i am saying i want the best players on the floor. i contend there is a huge difference between our top players and the rest and thus to cover a spot with these lesser players just so our best player can have a slightly better advantage while on the floor (i think evans is so good, it doesnt really matter. he will pretty much be the same player regardless. he is the player the other team adjusts to). if i am wrong and the freshmen, or glaze or manning or even barnett are significantly very much better than i expect, then we can be more of a traditional team.

It seems to me you are subscribing to Taj's way of thinking, in that players don't get better from year to year. I also think you have a very pessimistic view of the majority of players on our team, in stating that there is a huge talent gap between the seniors and the rest of the team. But, in the end, I don't think your vision of this team is the one that is shared by the staff.

Once again, I doubt highly that McBroom, Jett and McCall will share the court at the same time for the majority of their minutes. Evans will be on the floor with 2 other guards nearly the whole time he plays (just as he did his previous three seasons), one of the freshmen bigs will crack the rotation, and Manning and/or Glaze will see their minutes increase from the previous year. Crews is not going to go super-small the majority of the time just because he thinks those 5 players (MM, JJ, AM, DE, RL) are his best 5.

[jbizzle09]

This feels like deja vu all over again.

I could have sworn that last summer there were some very long arguments from Roy (and others) that Dwayne Evans should be playing the 4 because we had so many guards and we "had to get our best 5 on the floor." The argument started with a statement that Evans played a bunch of minutes at the 4 his sophomore year so it should continue. When it was proven that statistically he couldn't have played many minutes at the 4 (because of all the minutes the traditional bigs had during that year) it became a matter of making sure our best 5 players saw as much playing time together no matter what positions they actually played.

Then last year happened and Evans played nearly the entire season at the 3 spot and we played 2 traditional guards and 2 traditional bigs and it worked fabulously. Now, the same poster(s) are back saying we need to convert Evans to a 4 and go with a 3 guard offense. When will we learn!?!?!?

+1

But, it does give us something to discuss now that summer is underway.

[MB73]

Glaze played an important role last year, we needed some muscle and mayhem in there to offset the loss of Conk. We needed a banger, even though he is not a scorer, he helped.

This year, however, a lot remains to be seen, it is hard to say but will Reggie after one year of prep school be ready to contribute? Will Lancona? Will Manning improve to become a force? And, again, will Glaze improve his basketball skills?

All that remains to be seen.

Again, Glaze helped, we needed someone like him in there, we were a tad soft inside.

This year TBD.

[slufanskip]

Glaze played an important role last year, we needed some muscle and mayhem in there to offset the loss of Conk. We needed a banger, even though he is not a scorer, he helped.

This year, however, a lot remains to be seen, it is hard to say but will Reggie after one year of prep school be ready to contribute? Will Lancona? Will Manning improve to become a force? And, again, will Glaze improve his basketball skills?

All that remains to be seen.

Again, Glaze helped, we needed someone like him in there, we were a tad soft inside.

This year TBD.

Which begs for the question to be asked ... why didn't we just move DE to the 4 and start JJ along with KM and MM

[RiseAndGrind]

Yes. He was the true key to success. *rolls eyes*

And these two Spring signees, one with minimal BCS interest, will displace a starter who averaged 12 minutes a game. On a conference championship and NCAA caliber team. Okay then. (You should've used the actual emoticon).

[WeBsTa03]

Glaze + Conklin Summer = Beast! Enough Said........I also believe a lot of you have similar issues with brian conklin before his break out year. Glaze just has raw talent that needs to be developed.

[Littlebill]

Don't worry, some of the same people bashing on Glaze thought Ian Vouyoukas would never be a good player...

I was never a Vouyoukas hater. Granted, I wasn't even in high school yet. I'm also one who thinks Manning will turn out to be a very productive player, unlike many on here. He has at least shown he can become a productive Division 1 basketball player. Glaze, however, has done nothing at all. To compare GG to IV is ridiculous.

CC: RiseAndGrind

[slufanskip]

And these two Spring signees, one with minimal BCS interest, will displace a starter who averaged 12 minutes a game. On a conference championship and NCAA caliber team. Okay then. (You should've used the actual emoticon).

to be fair, GG was a starter by name only. I'd bet there aren't many other starters throughout the country averaging 12 mpg.

I wouldn't completely discount him though even with no improvement he brings an energy level to the floor that no other big does. If he works on finishing inside better he can get more minutes. I was constantly amazed at how many times he was wide open underneath. I can imagine how people hated to guard him as he was non stop movement and constantly looking for that back door cut. If you've ever played someone that is just go, go, go all the time ... it wears you out, you relax and bang they are behind you.

[billiken_roy]

This feels like deja vu all over again.

I could have sworn that last summer there were some very long arguments from Roy (and others) that Dwayne Evans should be playing the 4 because we had so many guards and we "had to get our best 5 on the floor." The argument started with a statement that Evans played a bunch of minutes at the 4 his sophomore year so it should continue. When it was proven that statistically he couldn't have played many minutes at the 4 (because of all the minutes the traditional bigs had during that year) it became a matter of making sure our best 5 players saw as much playing time together no matter what positions they actually played.

Then last year happened and Evans played nearly the entire season at the 3 spot and we played 2 traditional guards and 2 traditional bigs and it worked fabulously. Now, the same poster(s) are back saying we need to convert Evans to a 4 and go with a 3 guard offense. When will we learn!?!?!?

see i contend that offensively evans played the 4 all the time as either loe or ellis were out roaming the line.

[RiseAndGrind]

I was never a Vouyoukas hater. Granted, I wasn't even in high school yet. I'm also one who thinks Manning will turn out to be a very productive player, unlike many on here. He has at least shown he can become a productive Division 1 basketball player. Glaze, however, has done nothing at all. To compare GG to IV is ridiculous.

CC: RiseAndGrind

Wha??? Please demonstrate how John Manning has displayed more ability to be a competent division one basketball player than Grandy Glaze. Because he's tall? I also think Manning will turn out fine but not sure how you're able to draw that conclusion.

Also, Skip - You're probably right, but my point remains. Grandy Glaze has a defined role on this team. To think that two freshman are going to displace him, and if they don't that means the team won't be very good, is ridiculous. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

[slufanskip]

Wha??? Please demonstrate how John Manning has displayed more ability to be a competent division one basketball player than Grandy Glaze. Because he's tall? I also think Manning will turn out fine but not sure how you're able to draw that conclusion.

Also, Skip - You're probably right, but my point remains. Grandy Glaze has a defined role on this team. To think that two freshman are going to displace him, and if they don't that means the team won't be very good, is ridiculous. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

I guess it depends on what you call displacing him.

I could see a scenario where RA or TL play 15-20 mpg and GG's role remains as an energy guy. I think he has his place, but whether or not that place increases depends on him. I also wouldn't be completely shocked if he worked his ass off over the summer and became more of a force inside.

[Littlebill]

Wha??? Please demonstrate how John Manning has displayed more ability to be a competent division one basketball player than Grandy Glaze. Because he's tall? I also think Manning will turn out fine but not sure how you're able to draw that conclusion.

Also, Skip - You're probably right, but my point remains. Grandy Glaze has a defined role on this team. To think that two freshman are going to displace him, and if they don't that means the team won't be very good, is ridiculous. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

Have you seen either post up? Do a hook shot? It's easy to tell who the more productive player will be. JM has skills, GG can run around the court.

[ACE]

I think Grandy may surprise some folks. He plays with a lot of enthusiasm, but I think he also plays a lot more under control than people give him credit for. He is a pretty good passer. I remember several good kick out passes from the low post. I thought his defense got better with more playing time. He really runs the floor and can get out on the break and he is not bad at the pick and roll. He played with a really severe shoulder injury which may have limited his ability to finish around the basket. I expect GG to start again and average anywhere from 15-20 mpg.

[slufanskip]

see i contend that offensively evans played the 4 all the time as either loe or ellis were out roaming the line.

I would agree that Evans frequently played like a traditional 4 on offense. However, where we disagree is in how effective he would be if he was defended by the 4.

Evans has been so good as a 3. It gives him the matchups he can exploit, why would we change it.

We have 80 minutes to give at the 4 and 5. If we guess Loe gets 25-30, we have 50-55 to give between JM, GG, RA, and TL. We'll be fine, but the strength will still be our guards including DE

[RiseAndGrind]

Have you seen either post up? Do a hook shot? It's easy to tell who the more productive player will be. JM has skills, GG can run around the court.

So easy? Come'on. We have one guy who's actually played real minutes. We have another guy who has struggled to get off the bench. If it was "so easy" we wouldn't be having this conversation. Grandy Glaze has outperformed John Manning since they both arrived on campus. I can only hope that John Manning starts to produce at the levels you are projecting. Moreover, I think Manning will have a solid career as a Billiken. But you're being way too dismissive of Glaze's potential.

As it currently stands you're suggesting Reggie Agbeko, Tanner Lancona, and John Manning will all jump past Glaze on the depth chart. If that happens, SLU will have one of the deepest front courts in the entire country.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I would never try to say there aren't instances where any combo of the 3 guards plus DE at the 4 and RL at the 5 can't be effective or might even be our best matchup, but it isn't going to be the norm.

Hell why don't we discuss who will play the point IF JJ, MM, and AM all get hurt at the same time

HUSH YO MOUF!

i am not worrying. i am saying i want the best players on the floor. i contend there is a huge difference between our top players and the rest and thus to cover a spot with these lesser players just so our best player can have a slightly better advantage while on the floor (i think evans is so good, it doesnt really matter. he will pretty much be the same player regardless. he is the player the other team adjusts to). if i am wrong and the freshmen, or glaze or manning or even barnett are significantly very much better than i expect, then we can be more of a traditional team.

I think that happened last year, with Glaze starting and Ellis coming off of the bench (not that Cody was the best player).

to be fair, GG was a starter by name only. I'd bet there aren't many other starters throughout the country averaging 12 mpg.

I wouldn't completely discount him though even with no improvement he brings an energy level to the floor that no other big does. If he works on finishing inside better he can get more minutes. I was constantly amazed at how many times he was wide open underneath. I can imagine how people hated to guard him as he was non stop movement and constantly looking for that back door cut. If you've ever played someone that is just go, go, go all the time ... it wears you out, you relax and bang they are behind you.

Grandy Glaze reminds me somewhat of Rick Mahorn on the championship Detroit teams in the '80s. I'm speaking of role and style, not echelon.

So easy? Come'on. We have one guy who's actually played real minutes. We have another guy who has struggled to get off the bench. If it was "so easy" we wouldn't be having this conversation. Grandy Glaze has outperformed John Manning since they both arrived on campus. I can only hope that John Manning starts to produce at the levels you are projecting. Moreover, I think Manning will have a solid career as a Billiken. But you're being way too dismissive of Glaze's potential.

As it currently stands you're suggesting Reggie Agbeko, Tanner Lancona, and John Manning will all jump past Glaze on the depth chart. If that happens, SLU will have one of the deepest front courts in the entire country.

Can I quote you on that prediction?

[slufanskip]

I think Grandy may surprise some folks. He plays with a lot of enthusiasm, but I think he also plays a lot more under control than people give him credit for. He is a pretty good passer. I remember several good kick out passes from the low post. I thought his defense got better with more playing time. He really runs the floor and can get out on the break and he is not bad at the pick and roll. He played with a really severe shoulder injury which may have limited his ability to finish around the basket. I expect GG to start again and average anywhere from 15-20 mpg.

I didn't realize he had a severe shoulder injury. This may explain he tendancy to short arm the ball when shooting. He had virtually no follow through.

I can tell you I wouldn't want to guard him.

[RiseAndGrind]

Can I quote you on that prediction?

Sure. It's not a provocative statement and I'd be pleasantly surprised if those three are so dominant that they relegate an upperclassman to the bench.