Billiken Rich Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 And as for going to 10 and then 12, I've been wondering if Butler might be one of the schools to wait and then join later because of their being the most recent addition to the Atlantic 10 Conference. Is there any chance Butler (and maybe also VCU, if they're in the picture) may be saying, "We want to join, but let us complete one two-year cycle in the conference we just joined for the sake of balance"? Yeah because people turn down millions of extra dollars all the time ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I guess you guys don't know the Marquette fans that I know, or maybe I don't know the ones you know. Lots of folks are saying really good things about SLU on our message board and truly hoping they are apart of the new league. I would encourage you not to generalize an entire fan base, but if those are your feelings then I guess you are entitled to that. As for Marquette being scared of SLU I'm not going to justify those comments, my only rebuttal is that I know for a fact that MU is working behind the scenes to have SLU included in a 12 team league, so we are so scared that we are helping you join up if we can. I know I likely won't change your opinions but I know this to be happening. It's just jealousy as far as I'm concerned. That and the sour taste of the so called "agreement" that Marquette and Depaul and SLU were going to stick together after CUSA broke up. I think everyone knows Marquette's history goes well beyond the Deiner family...... All that said, for your sakes, you better hope Marquette is in a different bracket next month....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 When the Prez of Gtown says they may go west of the Mississippi but that geographic coherence is important that sounds to me like Creighton is too far west - since we are west of the Mississippi (barely) it would make more sense to me to read that as in our favor. Can't say I am crazy about giving up all that TV money for the life of the contract though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5326 Don't know if anyone posted this yet. Basically... The Big East football side has their tv deal wrapped up. This will allow them to move onto talking finances with the C7 schools. Still a July 2014 start for a new conference, 2013 an outlying possibility but unlikely because of reasons previously mentioned. When the departure date is announced it is expected that at least 3 schools will be announced as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk18 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think what would make most sense geographically and for a number of other reasons is to take Marquette, DePaul from the Big East, Creighton from the MVC, and a handful of schools from the A10.Georgetown could go to the ACC or elsewhere and be non-football or just develop a legit football program like they should. I couldn't include all the rankings from USNWR because they do some by regional rankings instead of national. The current average 'conference RPI' of these 10 schools would rank 2nd in the country right now only behind the Big 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUfan1 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Not a chance that happens, the B7 are sticking together for right now. What I'm hearing is if they start in 2013 it will be a 10 team league (mainly so that they don't have to pay the larger buyout number for the 11th and 12th team), then in 2014 they would expand to 12. If they just start outright in 2014 it will be a 12 team league from the get go. That said from what I'm hearing X and Butler are locks and are just formalities at this point, anyone outside of that is still up for debate. Marquette and Depaul are pushing for the more western focus (SLU, and CU) and Georgetown and St. John's are pushing for the eastern focus (Richmond, VCU, and strangely enough Siena - although some still dispute their involvement). As for the comment above about MU hoping that SLU isn't in the same bracket my response is your damn right I hope they aren't! Marquette has an okay team this year and I love them and will root for them till the death, but I know when to respect another team and you guys are the type of team that gives us fits. Not saying we couldn't win, but I'd rather not have to sweat it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="cheeseman" data-cid="346927" data-time="1361975444"><p> When the Prez of Gtown says they may go west of the Mississippi but that geographic coherence is important that sounds to me like Creighton is too far west - since we are west of the Mississippi (barely) it would make more sense to me to read that as in our favor. Can't say I am crazy about giving up all that TV money for the life of the contract though.</p></blockquote> Huh? You only give up tv money if you leave the new C7 conference. It will bind the 10/12 teams together and make it more of a permanent league. Given that we would never leave this league on our own, an expensive buyout is nothing but good for a SLU (if we are invited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I think what would make most sense geographically and for a number of other reasons is to take Marquette, DePaul from the Big East, Creighton from the MVC, and a handful of schools from the A10. Georgetown could go to the ACC or elsewhere and be non-football or just develop a legit football program like they should. I couldn't include all the rankings from USNWR because they do some by regional rankings instead of national. The current average 'conference RPI' of these 10 schools would rank 2nd in the country right now only behind the Big 10. Not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Another update from jerseyguy says there may be a new push to start in 2013, the C7 taking the BE name, Fox pushing for a 2013 date with that 40 million per year number, and mentions exit fees from the A10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk18 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Not going to happen. very obvious. Just what makes sense to me outside of old ties and money. Just in terms of basketball, geography, and institution type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Also exit fee numbers A10 2,000,000 with short notice 1,000,000 with long term notice MVC 500,000 I can't see this being a big issue but it does lend some credence to the idea of playing with 10 teams for one year and going to twelve the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Also exit fee numbers A10 2,000,000 with short notice 1,000,000 with long term notice MVC 500,000 I can't see this being a big issue but it does lend some credence to the idea of playing with 10 teams for one year and going to twelve the next year. I saw the thread on the CSNBB board regarding this theory and while there could be something to it, I think people are missing one main point. If it's really $2mm per A-10 team to leave immediately and $1mm a year from now and $50k for the MVC (I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere the MVC is only $50k, not $500k) and the teams leaving are Butler, Xavier, Richmond, SLU and Creighton the logical thing to do would be to have Butler, SLU and Creighton go first to later be followed by Xavier and Richmond. Why should Xavier and Richmond stick around an extra year in the A-10? Because they have the most tied up in previous NCAA credits with the A-10. This presumes Butler left all their credits behind in the Horizon. Those NCAA credits are worth a lot of money and for Xavier could be well in excess of $2mm a year. Richmond has the Sweet 16 run from a couple years ago whereas ours are only ~$500k a year. To put it more simply, giving up the NCAA credits is far more important to Xavier than anyone else so if there is any team that would be motivated to hang around the A-10 for an extra year its them. All that being said, I really don't care when we start in the new league, I just want to be in it. This is a long term decision and it really doesn't matter if you aren't part of the club for the first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Can someone explain to me why if you leave a conference you forfeit all your NCAA credits - are you sure you do not just forfeit the money that goes to the league and what you would have gotten back from the league share? If SLU gets to keep 75% of the money earned. why would that 75% not still come to SLU and the 25% go the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Can someone explain to me why if you leave a conference you forfeit all your NCAA credits - are you sure you do not just forfeit the money that goes to the league and what you would have gotten back from the league share? If SLU gets to keep 75% of the money earned. why would that 75% not still come to SLU and the 25% go the league? I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't have access to each conference's bylaws but I think a probable explanation is that the NCAA actually pays the conferences the NCAA Credits and that the bylaws stipulate how much goes to each team (i.e. 75% goes to the team that earned it and the remaining 25% goes to everyone else). If the laws are written with any teeth, it will have clauses that state a team must still be in the conference to receive the payments. From everything that has been written, one of the main hurdles the C7 teams have in leaving is finding a way to recover as much of their past earned NCAA credits as possible instead of leaving it all behind. Because of their unique circumstances (i.e. 7 of 10 teams leaving) they have a much better chance of doing so than if just one team was jumping ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I saw the thread on the CSNBB board regarding this theory and while there could be something to it, I think people are missing one main point. If it's really $2mm per A-10 team to leave immediately and $1mm a year from now and $50k for the MVC (I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere the MVC is only $50k, not $500k) and the teams leaving are Butler, Xavier, Richmond, SLU and Creighton the logical thing to do would be to have Butler, SLU and Creighton go first to later be followed by Xavier and Richmond.Why should Xavier and Richmond stick around an extra year in the A-10? Because they have the most tied up in previous NCAA credits with the A-10. This presumes Butler left all their credits behind in the Horizon. Those NCAA credits are worth a lot of money and for Xavier could be well in excess of $2mm a year. Richmond has the Sweet 16 run from a couple years ago whereas ours are only ~$500k a year.To put it more simply, giving up the NCAA credits is far more important to Xavier than anyone else so if there is any team that would be motivated to hang around the A-10 for an extra year its them.All that being said, I really don't care when we start in the new league, I just want to be in it. This is a long term decision and it really doesn't matter if you aren't part of the club for the first season. Ithink there is something to this. It would explain new talk about the issue of getting the additional teams out of their conference in time for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Butler might be another one that might want to wait a year. They gave up money when they left the Horizon and an extra 2 million might not be all that attractive right away. It would, also, explain the Feinstein nugget about if Butler chooses not to join the new league that they might look at Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Looks like there is another update from Jerseyguy. We 'll know tomorrow whether he's on the right path or not. http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365 Here is the key part: The basketball group will have an easier time of it in establishing an identity with the Big East name as well as a base of seven former Big East schools. A move to expand to at least ten teams is expected quickly. Butler and Xavier are the heavy favorites to receive two immediate invitations–with Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and Creighton also regarded as viable candidates Such a move by the Catholic 7 will decimate the Atlantic 10. But the Catholic 7 group, with a start up bank roll expected to be in excess of 20 million dollars, is expected to loan any A10 schools wishing to leave in the next few months the extra $1 million of exit fees required for each school for an early departure. An early consensus of starting the new league in July of 2014, rather than July of 2013, changed dramatically in the past few weeks as pressure from Fox Sports increased. Fox has put a $40 million a year offer to the Catholic 7 group, based on a 10 or 12 team configuration, but Fox executives, who are starting a new cable sports venture next fall, wanted the Catholic 7 to begin play next winter. Barring a last-minute snag in the plans, that appears likely to happen, with an announcement expected in the next few days. If the Catholic 7 can not reach an agreement to start sooner rather than later, they will remain with the Big East for next season and break away in July 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 -I sure hope our good season falls in line with an invite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MU88 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="AlumniFan" data-cid="345074" data-time="1361488076"><p> <br /> Obviously because they want exposure in that basketball rich recruiting environment of....Omaha? <br /> <br /> This really does not make sense <strong class='bbc'>unless</strong> one assumes that Marquette looks at SLU and says, "SLU is really coming on strong in terms of commitment to basketball, we don't want to have to compete with them, but Creighton, although a good program, doesn't have the high end potential that SLU has, at least on paper." That is the <strong class='bbc'><em class='bbc'>only </em></strong> thing that makes sense to me. Getting to Omaha is not easier than getting to St. Louis. There is no historic rivalry there to the extent that there is with SLU. Creighton will not be as big of a draw as SLU would be, especially in Milwaukee. And Marquette doesn't have nearly the focus on recruiting students from Omaha relative to St. Louis.</p></blockquote> I've said this since the first day I stepped foot on the campus of Saint Louis U and that's " Marquette." If Tom crean coached the USA basketball team against Iran, I'd root for Iran. That one year with wade propelled them into the big east. They are the most arrogant fan base in the country and the most undeserving of praise. You are wrong on a number of things. Creighton is a long time rival of MU, having played almost 100 times. I would guess MU has played Creighton at least twice as much as SLU. Historically, outside of the 15 year period between 1989 and 2004, MU has minimal history playing SLU (outside of football, that is). In addition, the President of Creighton is on the MU board. It could be a reason why MU has actively supported inviting Creighton to the new conference. Further, Creighton would be a good draw in Milwaukee, at least as good as SLU, which has never drawn all that well, There are a fair number of MU students come from Omaha and MU actively recruits the area. That said, I have heard nothing about MU supporting or not supporting SLU as a member of the conference. MU has had some issue with Dayton in the past, which could be an issue. But, I haven't heard anything about them either. My understanding is the east coast schools are against VCU for a variety of issues. Richmond is being pushed for one of the final two spots by Georgetown. As for undeserving of praise, that is your opinion. It seems to have touched a nerve that MU doesn't consider SLU a rival and isn't fighting to get SLU into the conference. However, given the minimal history between the schools on the court, its not surprising that few MU fans who are over say 45 or under say 28 consider SLU a rival. But for the Jesuit connection, the schools have little history. So, like most MU fans, I really don't care one way or another if SLU gets in the new conference. I (and most fans I know) feel the same about Richmond, VCU and Dayton too. None of them stir up any excitement or great distain for that matter. They are simply warm bodies getting the conference to 12. Personally, if they were interested, I would let UC and UConn park their non-football sports in the C7 till the get in a BCS conference. Those programs would certainly increase the national appeal (and potential tv revenue) of the new conference. However, that does not look likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 MU88 - First of all if you don't care about SLU, why did you register on this forum, post here, and continue coming back? Color me confused. Second - re: Uconn and UC. Did you not learn from the Big East mistakes? Why leave the Big East then? Why make an unstable conference with two schools waiting to bolt? Are you related to Mike Aresco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MU88 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Well, I have been a member on this board for a long, long time, probably since we were in the same conference. Given that we may be in the same conference, I am interested in what you guys are hearing. As for UConn and UC, the issue was the BE football conference. There will be no football in the C7, hence, no decisions will be made with football in mind. If UC and UConn are fine with that, I would be perfectly happy with them in the conference. I know its a minority opinion. But, I would rather have a stronger conference, then keep out those schools simply because they play a sport outside the conference. I view it no differently than Providence's hockey program. If they decide to leave in the future, so be it. Losing those 2 would not have any long term effects on the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN Catholic 7 schools will keep Big East name, expect to begin new league this fall, sources tell @ESPN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 MU88 - First of all if you don't care about SLU, why did you register on this forum, post here, and continue coming back? Color me confused.Second - re: Uconn and UC. Did you not learn from the Big East mistakes? Why leave the Big East then? Why make an unstable conference with two schools waiting to bolt? Are you related to Mike Aresco? And Robb Logterman was a big P*SSY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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