cheesycow Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 perhaps you should take one of sheltiedave's reading comprehension classes. I believe he's saying that the players are treated differently in the classroom, but that they don't get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 to what degree are they treated differently? are they given answers? are they allowed to not do assignments and papers unpenalized? is someone taking tests and writing papers for them? or is it more like they are allowed to make up tests or turn in papers late. there are different levels of different. the first few i would consider cheating...blatant academic fraud. the other couple of examples are showing favortism true, but i can remember good looking babes in some of my classes at slu that got that kind of "help" as well. i dont see that as a big deal. like i said, he needs to expond on what could be serious accusations. if true it should be addressed appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikens_Fanatic Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 All student athletes are given an approved absence from the university when their team travel conflicts with classes. This isn't just basketball, but any scholarship sport. Because of this, their academic timetable gets pushed back, but they never, to the best of my knowledge, get a free pass on any tests, papers, presentations, etc. I have had classes with a few basketball players. The only classes they missed were when the team was on the road. I think some teachers are more lenient about making up work than others, but that is at their own discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I wouldn't have a problem if student atheletes had a little leeway during the season. They spend an awful lot of time in practice and playing games. They are a major revenue source for the school and accomadations should be made. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 He just finished his freshmen season at Southplains. He averaged 11.4 ppg and 5.5 rpg. He is a communications major, which thankfully is a degree offered at SLU. See http://www.southplainscollege.edu/athletics/texancumes.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think the defining point is whether or not the leeway is just going easy on them during the season, or if it's more like a maurice clarett situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Didn't Dennard eventually qualify before enrolling at the JUCO but it was too late to come to SLU as we had already given the scholarship away? If so, it is my understanding that a JUCO who was qualified out of HS can transfer to a D1 school after his freshman year with no penalty or restriction. Maybe we can take Dennard this year! We have at least 1 and probably 2 scholarships open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 my guess is that he did not qualify. even though we heard those rumors, i have to believe that if he truly did he would be coming not newborne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 on this board. So it must be true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 yes, he is now at south plains. sorry for the typo. thanks for the correction. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Before a qualified juco can tranfer after his freshman season he must have "x" number of transferable hours, 24 hours I'm guessing. Perhaps Dennard didn't make that happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecCenterRat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 If a "fraternity" has a "test bank" (which almost all do) .. is that cheating .. or is that "playing the game" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecCenterRat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 i think that slu's program is as clean as it can get in division 1 athletics .. i'm just saying that there isn't a single program that is perfect .. which is how Roy makes us sound .. perhaps i'm a skeptic .. and i get tired of all the "we are the best at everything" .. when i just think we're "good" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 watch out- I'm a "troll" because I feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 you know the beating around the bush doesnt play. either make the accusation or dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think he's made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 i think he is alluding to more than leeway's on deadlines and taking tests. he is trying to say they knowingly cheat. if he isnt saying that, i apologize for putting words in his mouth. but that is his own fault for beating around the bush in his little psuedo accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecCenterRat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 exactly .. end of conversation .. have a nice day .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 exactly what? are you saying slu intentionally cheats or not? i dont know what exactly means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 If the "athletic department" has a "test bank" I have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 As a student at SLU I have also been in class with a number of student athletes, including basketball players. As was already stated, all student athletes are excused from classes if the class conflicts with their commitment to the team. Heck, I'm in the Band and when I went to the women's conference tourney in Memphis last year during mid-terms week, I got a letter from the athletic department which excused me from all classes I missed and allowed me to re-schedule any tests I would miss. I also will attest that the only times that basketball players I've been in classes with have been absent from class has been when the absence coincided with a road trip or rescheduled practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Bending of rules, breaking of rules and making new rules all reside along the continuom. Bending academic requirements happens at all institutions, such as an institutional rule that all missed work must be made up within 24 hours of arrival back on campus. Professors are the arbitors of what happens within their individual courses and how students accomplish assigned academic work. Every student I have ever seen receives an unusual and extraordinary benefit at one time or another. The concern here is whether it is applied in weighted fashion only for basketball players benefit, is adverse, and is excessively unreasonable in its accomodation. This "cheating" is subject to review by the University's Academic Review Board, and can result in loss of tenure, or dismissal of the instructor. Breaking of rules is signalled by said dismissal or loss of tenure. Making new rules is illustrated by the varied and unique explanations to explain #2. At SLU, I have seena moderate level of lower level bending. I have seen it across the board for traveling squads, be it field hockey, swim team, soccer, golf, or basketball. It is an endemic concern, not epidemic, so Roy can rest easy. Varsity sports members are not receiving disproportionate advantages and lesser degrees as a result of their sports involvement at SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 benfits you describe test banks etc....would not be considered cheating by the institution. Any benefits to an athlete is ok as long as it is a benefit available to non athlete students as well. So if the Frat has the test bank....it would be OK....provided it does not violate the honr code at SLU. In med school old test were always available, and did not consitute a violation of the honor code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Are you saying that athlete's aren't cheating if they use test banks because frats can use those test banks too? If the tests haven't changed (which is sometimes the case with certain professors), both groups are cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 athletes who are students can and will do the same things other students do. They are able to use the same benefits available to other students according to the NCAA. They are also subject to the same rules of conduct other students are. If I am not mistaken SLU is on the honor code, perhaps this is only for the grad schools I do not know. Old tests have long been used to learn, by practicing problems and focusing on what is felt to be important, not necessarily cheating. Whether it is considered cheating is irrelevant for you point about SLU not being perfect, because why?? Because the athletic department or University is not setting that program up in order to pass all its players like Georgia did with its basketball 101 class. The school may not even be condoning it.....ie it might be agaisnt the rules...., but if it is happening it is the individual who may be cheating , NOT the athletic program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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