Katz story

[slu72]

on ESPN about coaching changes in 2002 and 2003. Basically, who's done well. UB was mentioned. Story starts out St.Louis job isn't an easy one. Can't figure out this perception of us as being a tough place to coach, play, etc. We're a major metro school, solid academics, nice campus, new arena on the board and, decent attendance figures. Hell, we've shown if we come up with a winner we'll be a top 20 attendance school. We even get an annual shot at a national TV game. But for some reason the world of college hoops thinks SLU is a tough place. Please someone explain why this is? It can't be academics because we've shown we're willing to lessen our admission standards for athletes. Granted facilities are sub par but that's about to change big time. We play in a good conference and are moving to another good conference, so it can't be that. Our alumni do not put a lot of pressure on coaches to have immediate success, so it can't be that. What the hell makes us a tough place for coaches and players?

[billiken_roy]

because we wont cheat. we wont even think about dancing in the gray areas. couple that with the expected high (and credible) academics, indeed makes it a tough sell. doug woolard and father biondi are adament about it. i for one am more than fine with it. it is a reason to be proud of saint louis university.

[ACE]

I think it is as simple as tradition. We don't have much of it in the last 40 years. Our program is pretty much on a par now with programs like DePaul, Marquette, Georgetowna and Villanova, but the national perception is that those other programs are much better because they've each had some postseason success in the last 20-25 years or they're in bigger media markets (Milwaukee excluded). The Bills were a total non-factor in the 1970s and the 1980's nationally. Meanwhile, other Catholic programs like Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova won national titles. DePaul was often ranked in the top 10.

We gotta make an elite 8. We gotta be ranked in the top 25 three or four years in a row to start to change that. Our tradition with Easy Ed and Co. is ancient. In time, I think Brad is the guy who can create a new tradition.

[StLouBlue]

I agree with his point that SLU is a tough place to coach, our two previous coaches only had limited successes here. Trying to look at reasons for why SLU is a tough place to coach:

Conference--CUSA is a very good conference & getting better--it is hard for a middle of the pack team to move up to elite status. Schools like Cincinnati, Louisville, Marquette and Memphis probably have much larger budgets than SLU, they certainly pay their head coach more than we do. Also because those schools have the name recognition they get more TV games and have the ability to land better recruits.

High School talent in St Louis area is not as deep as other areas, like Chicago, Milwaukee/Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan. Also SLU is located right in between the B12 & B10 with the SEC close by, so whenever there is a top recruit, there are many BCS type schools also in the running for them.

SLU doesn't have the name recognition to recruit nationally on a consistant basis. While we once in a while do have some success at attracting players for out of the area more often it is a AD like story--a player we just happened on at the right time.

SLU is a job where a coach can have success for the reasons you pointed out, but there are also reasons that make it a tough job.

[willie]

From reading Roy over the years I believe he is of the opinion that most teams cheat. I'm curious as to whether most people agree with that. Are we really one step from sainthood compared to everyone else.I do believe we try to play by the rules but what about everybody else? I do believe everybody in the SEC cheats. Always have always will. But what about the Kansas State's-the Boston College's-the Ohio States of the world. My own opinion is that about one half of all teams cheat with about 1/4 of them giving hard enducments.But I certainly believe you can be clean and still win at the highest level.

[billiken_roy]

i believe that if the truth be known, that of the top schools (top 150 say) at least a third knowingly commit infractions.

on a recent frankly speaking, frank had rich grawer on (a frequent guest actually) and frank asked this question. after much him hawing around, rich guessed 40%.

[billiken_roy]

p.s. i also mentioned the different approach to academics than most. the two issues combined buts slu in a difficult place to compete imo.

look at duke. everyone knows duke away from athletics is a world class academic institution. at one time coach k sang the same songs. i still remember how he would refuse to put the annual banners up until every player on that team had graduated. somewhere along the line that ceased being the rule, they created the sra like self paced sociology major which is a complete joke. and since, duke has become elite college basketball. before about 1990, i dont think you would have said that about duke basketball. before 1990 duke still upheld accademics unlike now.

[cheesycow]

...I'd say it's more likely that every team bends the rules. Some teams break them entirely.

[brehms13]

I agree. Especially with the national recruiting. I'm no History Buff on SLU, in fact I've only begin to read up since Reg first transferred here. But I do think we limit ourselves when we limit our recruiting to just the local area. I think that SLU would be put on the map when we start making our names known in other regions. Even if we're throwing our names into an endless pot of recruiting schools, we should at least get in to the mix. I know that on the east coast many basketball players would love an opportunity to go to SLU, we have good players that are recruited by the big schools but still go out and make a name for themselves. I remember Reg getting letters from as far as California, when Reg was about to graduate, Minnesota, Texas and more.....Has Coach ever discussed broadening his recruiting area or does he feel the local region is enough?

[slu72]

I disagree with the local talent argument. Had we been able to attract the Chris Carswells, Loren Woods, Jimmie McKinney's of the SLU area we'd be sitting pretty. I think there's plenty of talent to go around in the SLU area. If I had to rate the reasons in priority they would be as follows:

1.) Facilities-face it no kid's going to be impressed by W.Pine gym.

2.) Lack of Tradition/Recognition. Not many people know about us.

3.) Competing coaches can easily knock us...lack of coaching stability, what have they done lately, you want to play blue collar hoops for four years, that sort of thing.

4.) No real recognizable NBA'er. Keep hoping Hughes is going to break through. But if he was an all star, we could point out where he went to school.

But I don't see where a DePaul offers more than we do. Or a St.Joes for that matter. I still don't get why we are a tough place to coach and play.

[slu72]

Brehm's you have any 6'8" 240lb pfs out there in Maryland that are dying to play for SLU. I guarantee UB will be there tomorrow. Or for that matter you got any more Reggies out there? We could use one or two more of him.

[Schasz]

Enters into this discussion when we discuss our beloved Bills. Face it kids want to get on television as much as possible. If we can move into the Top 25-30 neighborhood, then our television appearances will not be the recruiting issue that it is right now.

[brehms13]

Hey, it's plenty of Reggie's in Baltimore. There's no shortage of guards here. Big men, are a different story though. But there are a few. I'm actually gonna get a chance to see a lot of AAU play this summer since my son plays, which I really haven't been able to do lately. So I'll definitely let u guys know what's available in my neck of the woods.

[billiken_roy]

while he wasnt on the all-star team this season, his scoring average was top 20 in the entire nba. i wouldnt consider larry a bust in the nba by any means. if you read the wizards message boards like i do, you know that over this season he has went from the guy everyone was ready to use as tradebait to their truly one untouchable player now. stackhouse is gone and brown, arenas and hughes form a nice start to a future. just like the billikens, they need a true power forward to go along with their young trio.

[Billikens_Fanatic]

I do agree with most of your post. St Louis does have plenty of high school talent. It's just a matter of us being able to get those players and not let them go to bigger schools. However your fourth priority of having a recognizable NBA'er, while I think would help, isn't a big issue. Marquette had no big name before Wade, Depaul only had Q, who's roughly at Hughes level of recognition. The only NBA'er I could think of from Louisville was Samaki Walker, who's not as big as Hughes. So while there's no denying that single players can truly build a program (Tim Duncan - Wake Forest), I don't think it's necessary in building a winning tradition.

[Sheltiedave]

SLU is a classic "tweener."

A rigid and rugged academic program that eliminates half of the juco recruits immediately, because we have a limited number of majors, with few that dovetail from the juco bball powers. Transfers are also looking at a semester equivalent of dedicated classes in philosophy and theology.

Lack of high level tradition.

Lack of outstanding facilities.

No basketball pipeline from city and Catholic high school leagues since late '60s(Polk era.)

Atheletic program outside of soccer was decimated by lack of administrative support in the '70s.

That being some of the negative aspects that, hopefully, are historical and becoming moot. We were a upper echelon team in the Missouri Valley Conference, and then free fell to a dreg in the Metro. Grawer worked his butt off, recruited well locally, and we steadily improved during our time in the MCC and Great Midwest, and we upgraded conference quality in the CUSA, tho we are a lower upper echelon now. The A10 will be another elevation for our profile, as our recruiting efforts have always been from Kansas EAST other than under Romar.

Brad has done a great job transferring a Big Ten approach to SLU. If Biondi gets on board, the new arena will be top notch if it is a full service, centralized facility. That means, practice, offices, and game floor under the same roof.

The local pipeline has just been opened and will pay huge dividends in three years, just like Grawer's great class that Spoon eventually inherited.

The administration is riding Brad's train at this point. Tho many of us would like a Debbie Yow to be driving some of the changes, we have a decent administrative AD in Woolard. We have gotten significant ink and pub, and we can anticipate more pluses to come.

[jjray]

brehms, honestly I think you should email coach Soderberg directly about any promising players that you see in the Balimore area. You could become our Baltimore--DC early development scout. His email address is located on the main university web site so I don't think I am breaking any confidence by posting it here: [email protected] .

Any time you want to post a thread summarizing the more interesting HS players out of the Baltimore area who are not committed, I'm sure we would be interested to read. I 2nd the notion that another Reggie coming out of Baltimore to SLU would be highly welcomed. We never seem to be able to put 2 players on the same roster with the ability and mentality to be a scorer.

[RecCenterRat]

DePaul is in a really great part of Chicago. It's a 20 minute walk/2 L Stop away from Wrigleyville, and a 20 minute walk to michigan ave. downtown. It's also in a completely safe and urban area. You can walk anywhere .. and there are close to 200 bars within a mile radius of the university, and the lake (with beach) is a quarter mile walk. I can see how it would be an easier place to recruit.

Sorry, but to out of town recruits .. i'd think Chicago would be a cooler place to live than St. Louis. Although, the Cubs suck.

I've heard that St. Joe's is in a ###### neighborhood. I think that they more or less "lucked" out with a few players and got their confidence rolling.

We should be able to out recruit a team like Marquette, until they change conferences.

-rat

ps. Yo ROY .. we do give kick backs to our athlete's in the classroom .. do you consider that cheating? .. or when you say cheating .. are you referring to the payment and purchase of players in recruitment? cause I think we're pretty good about that ..

[3star_recruit]

I read somewhere that Calvert Hall has two D-1 prospects in the 2005 - their names are Harris and Hourihan, I believe. If they're SLU quality, let Brad know.

[p diddy]

slu72,

actually, one of those 6'8" 240lb. forwards from baltimore did want to come to slu. his name is dennard abraham, who is one of reggie runnng buddies. he has been discussed quite a bit on the board in the past. he committed here, but did not qualify. he is not at south plains j.c. in texas where he had a good freshman year. word on the street is that he is a high priority for the recruiting class of 2005.

so, reggie has been looking out for us on that front.

bad boyz for life

[cheesycow]

I was walking from one friend's apartment to another's with my friend jon- while walking, an old man drove by not once, not twice, but 3 times- and honked each time. Very scary.

[Billikens_Fanatic]

like Vashon consistently dominates their competition and garners a bit of national attention. Their most notable product is probably Juan Dixon.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>

>slu72,

> actually, one of those 6'8" 240lb. forwards from baltimore

>did want to come to slu. his name is dennard abraham, who is

>one of reggie runnng buddies. he has been discussed quite a

>bit on the board in the past. he committed here, but did not

>qualify. he is not at south plains j.c. in texas where he

>had a good freshman year. word on the street is that he is a

>high priority for the recruiting class of 2005.

> so, reggie has been looking out for us on that front.

>

>bad boyz for life

"he is not at south plains j.c. in texas" or "he is now at south plains j.c. in texas"?

[billiken_roy]

reccenterrat said, "ps. Yo ROY .. we do give kick backs to our athlete's in the classroom .. do you consider that cheating? .. or when you say cheating .. are you referring to the payment and purchase of players in recruitment? cause I think we're pretty good about that .."

i guess i dont speak your language. what do you mean by "kick backs to out athlete's in the classroom" what do you mean by "payment and purchase of players in recruitment? cause i think we're pretty good about that"

those two lines seem to say you think that slu somehow is cheating?

[billiken_roy]

as jjray suggested all of us should approach the "finding" of players the same way. advise our coaches about the player. do not talk to the young players on behalf of slu. ever.