eastsidejoe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 We will continue to struggle until we get DE and Km to play the way that they have demonstrated in the past on a consistant basis. the Board can criticize KC all they want, and I agree that he should be a much bigger contributor or sit, but the lack of what we expect from DE and KM is killing this team and until we get them playing like they have in previous years, this team will be up and down the rest of the year. Forget about RL and CE, they are not the problem, nor is JJ or MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 You're the most dedicated because you post on a message board? Yeah, and I'm a ###### king because I wear a crown. I think it's safe to assume that people that post on Billikens.com are more than your average fan, yes. And I never said I was the most dedicated. Chill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 LOL. I dont know what games you have been watching or maybe you are just a KC homer, I dont know. KC SHOULD NOT EVER start. He should be 7 or 8th man and only in to give breathers. We are a far better team when he is off the court. And Majerus is seeing that ie KC with significantly less minutes. our turnovers the last two games are higher than our season average. one thing kyle doesnt do is turn the ball over. he has the best assts to turnover ratio on the team. and imo is a calming influence when in the game. things run right. when he is out the pace seems to get frantic, we seem to turn into a dribble drive team more. not doubt that athletically and even skil wise jett and mccall bring more to the table, but imo they do not make the team better when they both play and cassity is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 our turnovers the last two games are higher than our season average. one thing kyle doesnt do is turn the ball over. he has the best assts to turnover ratio on the team. and imo is a calming influence when in the game. things run right. when he is out the pace seems to get frantic, we seem to turn into a dribble drive team more. not doubt that athletically and even skil wise jett and mccall bring more to the table, but imo they do not make the team better when they both play and cassity is out. KC is not our main problem. He is only getting 12 minutes a game. We need to quit beating a dead horse and take the blinders off to see who really is underachieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 KC is not our main problem. He is only getting 12 minutes a game. We need to quit beating a dead horse and take the blinders off to see who really is underachieving. we are not allowed to blame mitchell. that would be akin to saying voldermort out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Jett was a +6 and Cassity was a +1 yesterday...our only 2 players in the black. Cassity's value goes beyond the box score, however, we do need some ###### production from his ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 we are not allowed to blame mitchell. that would be akin to saying voldermort out loud. KM should be blamed for yesterday. We know he can be great, but outside of a couple moments in a couple games he hasn't shown anything extraordinary this year. We need him to step up if we want to make a run. Even if he isn't scoring he needs to go back to creating easy looks for Conklin or our 3 point shooters. I don't care if KC starts or what, but I completely agree that there are a lot of guys who I would blame before Cassity for the way they played yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 we are not allowed to blame mitchell. that would be akin to saying voldermort out loud. Mitchell was awful yesterday. But at least he gave an effort. Which is far more than Cassity has done recently. Right now, there is absolutely nothing to defend about Cassity. Mitchell is a disappointment compared to our expectations of him coming into this season. Cassity is absolutely invisible. He has given no effort in these past two games and is playing as passive as a walkon at the end of a blowout. You don't turn the ball over if you pass it to another player on the wing as soon as you get it. The thing is, in 7 conference games, Cassity has a TOTAL of 10 assists to 6 turnovers. So, pointing to his assists to turnover ratio is kinda meaningless when he isn't doing much distributing or facillitating. In the same period of time, Mitchell has 24 assists to 13 turnovers. Basically, the same as Cassity in conference, assists to turnover wise, but far more involved. And even with the 0-4 performance downtown for Mitchell against UMass, he is still shooting 42.8% from three in conference. Cassity is 2-10 in conference from 3, and 2 for his last 20 overall. There is plenty of blame to go around when we lose, and Mitchell should be at the forefront of that against UMass. Again, he was awful. But let's not try to deflect the well-earned criticism that Cassity deserves. He has become a non-entity, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move down to single digits in minutes played down the stretch. And he has totally earned that at this point. I want more than anything to see him succeed and contribute, but if he is going to play scared like he has lately, then I'd prefer to see him sit. As I said in another thread, give me someone who might make mistakes, but at least is willing to try and give max effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Mitchell was awful yesterday. But at least he gave an effort. Which is far more than Cassity has done recently. Right now, there is absolutely nothing to defend about Cassity. Mitchell is a disappointment compared to our expectations of him coming into this season. Cassity is absolutely invisible. He has given no effort in these past two games and is playing as passive as a walkon at the end of a blowout. You don't turn the ball over if you pass it to another player on the wing as soon as you get it. The thing is, in 7 conference games, Cassity has a TOTAL of 10 assists to 6 turnovers. So, pointing to his assists to turnover ratio is kinda meaningless when he isn't doing much distributing or facillitating. In the same period of time, Mitchell has 24 assists to 13 turnovers. Basically, the same as Cassity in conference, assists to turnover wise, but far more involved. And even with the 0-4 performance downtown for Mitchell against UMass, he is still shooting 42.8% from three in conference. Cassity is 2-10 in conference from 3, and 2 for his last 20 overall. There is plenty of blame to go around when we lose, and Mitchell should be at the forefront of that against UMass. Again, he was awful. But let's not try to deflect the well-earned criticism that Cassity deserves. He has become a non-entity, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move down to single digits in minutes played down the stretch. And he has totally earned that at this point. I want more than anything to see him succeed and contribute, but if he is going to play scared like he has lately, then I'd prefer to see him sit. As I said in another thread, give me someone who might make mistakes, but at least is willing to try and give max effort. Yeh, then who are you going to admonish when KC gets 0 minutes. Get over it. Everything you have said has been said 100 times. Give it up. Start looking around. You say KM gave the effort yesterday, I disagree. What happened to the guy who would create his own shot??? What about the guy who couldn't guard the point from the other team? That's not KC's fault. That is bull****. Forget about KC, he isn't even playing. You got what you wanted now look for another scapegoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Mitchell was awful yesterday. But at least he gave an effort. Which is far more than Cassity has done recently. Right now, there is absolutely nothing to defend about Cassity. Mitchell is a disappointment compared to our expectations of him coming into this season. Cassity is absolutely invisible. maybe he is invisible because he's playing 5-7 minutes a half. when you are at best the 4th option on offense it is kind of hard to make some sort of splash you are apparently expecting. again, i am not arguing that cassity should be playing every minute or even more minutes than he has the last couple of games. i am just intrigued he is still taking the arrows when he isnt even playing anymore. the blame has to go to the players that are playing the bulk of the minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Mitchell was awful yesterday. But at least he gave an effort. Which is far more than Cassity has done recently. Right now, there is absolutely nothing to defend about Cassity. Mitchell is a disappointment compared to our expectations of him coming into this season. Cassity is absolutely invisible. He has given no effort in these past two games and is playing as passive as a walkon at the end of a blowout. You don't turn the ball over if you pass it to another player on the wing as soon as you get it. The thing is, in 7 conference games, Cassity has a TOTAL of 10 assists to 6 turnovers. So, pointing to his assists to turnover ratio is kinda meaningless when he isn't doing much distributing or facillitating. In the same period of time, Mitchell has 24 assists to 13 turnovers. Basically, the same as Cassity in conference, assists to turnover wise, but far more involved. And even with the 0-4 performance downtown for Mitchell against UMass, he is still shooting 42.8% from three in conference. Cassity is 2-10 in conference from 3, and 2 for his last 20 overall. There is plenty of blame to go around when we lose, and Mitchell should be at the forefront of that against UMass. Again, he was awful. But let's not try to deflect the well-earned criticism that Cassity deserves. He has become a non-entity, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move down to single digits in minutes played down the stretch. And he has totally earned that at this point. I want more than anything to see him succeed and contribute, but if he is going to play scared like he has lately, then I'd prefer to see him sit. As I said in another thread, give me someone who might make mistakes, but at least is willing to try and give max effort. This whole conversation was started when people started blaming KC for the loss yesterday. This thread was about our road trip, not a referendum on the entire season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yeh, then who are you going to admonish when KC gets 0 minutes. Get over it. Everything you have said has been said 100 times. Give it up. Start looking around. You say KM gave the effort yesterday, I disagree. What happened to the guy who would create his own shot??? What about the guy who couldn't guard the point from the other team? That's not KC's fault. That is bull****. Forget about KC, he isn't even playing. You got what you wanted now look for another scapegoat. I also said Mitchell was awful (twice) and should be at the forefront of the blame for the UMass loss. Re-read my post if need be. I am more pointing out that the ciriticism for Cassity at this point is well-earned. I hate seeing Cassity underperfrom and not contribute. I am not happy about it. I am not gloating. I am not laughing at his struggles and reduced minutes. I want him to have that fire in his belly. I want him to be embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament, especially as this is his senior season. I want him to be one of the reasons why we have a great season, not an afterthought. Except it seems like he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame. The thing is, I don't want a 'scapegoat'. I don't want to find someone else to blame. I don't want to try to turn a critical eye to Mitchell, or Conklin, or Evans, or anyone else on this team, just to find someone else to blame for losses and bad performances. If Cassity is reduced to 0 minutes, it is a real shame because only he then allowed that to happen. He has the ability and basketball IQ to be a major contributor to this team. I just want him to have the confidence to perform. I want him to be the player I have seen glimpses of for the past 3+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrmajic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I also said Mitchell was awful (twice) and should be at the forefront of the blame for the UMass loss. Re-read my post if need be. I am more pointing out that the ciriticism for Cassity at this point is well-earned. I hate seeing Cassity underperfrom and not contribute. I am not happy about it. I am not gloating. I am not laughing at his struggles and reduced minutes. I want him to have that fire in his belly. I want him to be embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament, especially as this is his senior season. I want him to be one of the reasons why we have a great season, not an afterthought. Except it seems like he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame. The thing is, I don't want a 'scapegoat'. I don't want to find someone else to blame. I don't want to try to turn a critical eye to Mitchell, or Conklin, or Evans, or anyone else on this team, just to find someone else to blame for losses and bad performances. If Cassity is reduced to 0 minutes, it is a real shame because only he then allowed that to happen. He has the ability and basketball IQ to be a major contributor to this team. I just want him to have the confidence to perform. I want him to be the player I have seen glimpses of for the past 3+ years. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I also said Mitchell was awful (twice) and should be at the forefront of the blame for the UMass loss. Re-read my post if need be. I am more pointing out that the ciriticism for Cassity at this point is well-earned. I hate seeing Cassity underperfrom and not contribute. I am not happy about it. I am not gloating. I am not laughing at his struggles and reduced minutes. I want him to have that fire in his belly. I want him to be embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament, especially as this is his senior season. I want him to be one of the reasons why we have a great season, not an afterthought. Except it seems like he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame. The thing is, I don't want a 'scapegoat'. I don't want to find someone else to blame. I don't want to try to turn a critical eye to Mitchell, or Conklin, or Evans, or anyone else on this team, just to find someone else to blame for losses and bad performances. If Cassity is reduced to 0 minutes, it is a real shame because only he then allowed that to happen. He has the ability and basketball IQ to be a major contributor to this team. I just want him to have the confidence to perform. I want him to be the player I have seen glimpses of for the past 3+ years. so because he doesnt shoot more you think he doesnt have a "fire in his belly." you think he isnt "embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament," you think he is somehow playing at a lower level "especially as this is his senior season." personally, i think that all the things you and others expect or want from kyle just arent going to happen. he isnt that kind of player and never was. i saw him play in high school and he was always the total team first player even when he was 4x the player as anyone else on the floor game in and game out. rickma knew that. it was my understanding it was the reason rickma wanted him. but now everyone wants him to immediately become something he never was including apparently rickma. i think kyle is "one of the reasons why we are having a great season," i definitely do not consider him "an afterthought". and even though you are one of my favorite posters jbizzle, it really upsets me for you to take the stance that "he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame." i think that is totally outrageous and untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I also said Mitchell was awful (twice) and should be at the forefront of the blame for the UMass loss. Re-read my post if need be. I am more pointing out that the ciriticism for Cassity at this point is well-earned. I hate seeing Cassity underperfrom and not contribute. I am not happy about it. I am not gloating. I am not laughing at his struggles and reduced minutes. I want him to have that fire in his belly. I want him to be embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament, especially as this is his senior season. I want him to be one of the reasons why we have a great season, not an afterthought. Except it seems like he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame. The thing is, I don't want a 'scapegoat'. I don't want to find someone else to blame. I don't want to try to turn a critical eye to Mitchell, or Conklin, or Evans, or anyone else on this team, just to find someone else to blame for losses and bad performances. If Cassity is reduced to 0 minutes, it is a real shame because only he then allowed that to happen. He has the ability and basketball IQ to be a major contributor to this team. I just want him to have the confidence to perform. I want him to be the player I have seen glimpses of for the past 3+ years. The teams problem is not Cassity. He is what he is. Others on this team, have way underachieved. Cassity has been a disappointment, but there are others that are a bigger reason for our play, especially on the road. Anybody can win at home except against Temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The teams problem is not Cassity. He is what he is. Others on this team, have way underachieved. Cassity has been a disappointment, but there are others that are a bigger reason for our play, especially on the road. Anybody can win at home except against Temple. But here's the deal, KC's problems are what they are and they aren't going to change. I still believe KM can change (he has shown us a dominant form in the past), DE can be better, same with pretty much the rest of the guys that are getting the minutes. You are right, KC is probably getting a bit too much criticism and I was probably a guy fueling that fire. However, I don't see what he brings to the table that is greater than our other options and I don't see his play changing for the positive. It seems like RM might be accepting that two given KC's minutes the last 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 so because he doesnt shoot more you think he doesnt have a "fire in his belly." you think he isnt "embracing a chance to get this team into the tournament," you think he is somehow playing at a lower level "especially as this is his senior season." personally, i think that all the things you and others expect or want from kyle just arent going to happen. he isnt that kind of player and never was. i saw him play in high school and he was always the total team first player even when he was 4x the player as anyone else on the floor game in and game out. rickma knew that. it was my understanding it was the reason rickma wanted him. but now everyone wants him to immediately become something he never was including apparently rickma. i think kyle is "one of the reasons why we are having a great season," i definitely do not consider him "an afterthought". and even though you are one of my favorite posters jbizzle, it really upsets me for you to take the stance that "he doesn't even care right now. And that is the real shame." i think that is totally outrageous and untrue. In my opinion, you have every right to say this to me, Roy. It is completely fair. I can definitely see how you can feel that is outrageous that I have these observations about Cassity at this point. Basically, I am just making these observations not purely on what his statlines say, but the body language I see from him when he is on the court. I guess my perception is that he is coming across as disinterested and not trying to get involved. I really hope I am wrong, but I also know that I am not the only one that has this perception. I also know that he can bring more to this team than scoring, and that somone can have a positive impact on a game even when going scoreless and not attempting shots. Heck, many of us praised Cory's game against Duquesne, even though he had 0 FG attempts and only 1 rebound in 16 minutes, because he had an impact defensively and helped create positive posessions for the Billikens. And, honestly, in the past, Cassity has had many similar performances where his impact was much higher than what the statline showed. Roy, I apologize to you for my comments about Cassity, but I am not going to back away from them at this point. It is my perception of him right now. It is obvious you have more of an attachment to him because you got to see him play in high school and now see him play for SLU. Thus, you have seen him basically grow up in front of your eyes. I respect that, but my opinion is going to remain where it is for now. Hopefully, something occurs down the line that will change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Does this team have a Kelly Leak? Someone who just says "###### it" and takes over? We need that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Does this team have a Kelly Leak? Someone who just says "###### it" and takes over? We need that. Technically that team had two stars. You can't forget tatum oneil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 -who played and coached yesterday that doesn't deserve a critque of their performance? i say no one -has there been some piling on of KC? maybe, but i think as someone else posted this board has no even keel, it is either we win the ncaa tourney or we completely suck -KC is what he is, he isn't changing and he isn't going to be any more than he is but some want more and they are entitled to their opinion just like KC's defenders are entitled to theirs -here are KC's stats in wins and losses, i would expect every player would have better stats in w's vs l's, but are these a bit too dramatic in that difference? you decide in 16 wins he is shooting 46.5% fg, 40.4% 3pt (19/47), 2.0 rebounds, 43 assists, 10 turnovers, 5.6pts and shooting 4.5 times per game in 5 losses he is shooting 25.0% fg, 00.0% 3pt (0/4), 1.4 rebounds, 7 assists, 5 turnovers, 1.6 pts and shooting 2.4 times per game -free throws don't really matter as there have been 6 total attempts -minutes per game w's vs l's are 22.9 and 22.8 -biggest differences in home versus road stats are 3pt% of 40.0% and 16.7%, and assists 36 at home and 9 away and turnovers 4 at home and 8 away -his neutral site games are great, that bodes well for the ncaa tourney (biggest difference should be in ncaa there will be people in the stands versus anaheim) -is it as KC goes so go the Billikens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 -who played and coached yesterday that doesn't deserve a critque of their performance? i say no one -has there been some piling on of KC? maybe, but i think as someone else posted this board has no even keel, it is either we win the ncaa tourney or we completely suck -KC is what he is, he isn't changing and he isn't going to be any more than he is but some want more and they are entitled to their opinion just like KC's defenders are entitled to theirs -here are KC's stats in wins and losses, i would expect every player would have better stats in w's vs l's, but are these a bit too dramatic in that difference? you decide in 16 wins he is shooting 46.5% fg, 40.4% 3pt (19/47), 2.0 rebounds, 43 assists, 10 turnovers, 5.6pts and shooting 4.5 times per game in 5 losses he is shooting 25.0% fg, 00.0% 3pt (0/4), 1.4 rebounds, 7 assists, 5 turnovers, 1.6 pts and shooting 2.4 times per game -free throws don't really matter as there have been 6 total attempts -minutes per game w's vs l's are 22.9 and 22.8 -biggest differences in home versus road stats are 3pt% of 40.0% and 16.7%, and assists 36 at home and 9 away and turnovers 4 at home and 8 away -his neutral site games are great, that bodes well for the ncaa tourney (biggest difference should be in ncaa there will be people in the stands versus anaheim) -is it as KC goes so go the Billikens? forget about KC. He is not the problem. He hardly plays. Kc is the whipping boy on this team. this board cannot see that we have other problems that do not incude kc's underperformance. what happened when Km was scoring 25 points per game and kc was the other guard. no one complained as long as km got his 25. Please. get with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Pine Jim Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Technically that team had two stars. You can't forget tatum oneil.I don't know about tatum...I mean, really, french jeans ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Real problem is our guards normally don't drive to get fouls like our opponents-however it wouldn't make much difference the way we shoot FTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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