slu72 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 season. What the Bills need to do to make the dance next year or in keeping with our mascot...the Icon of what ought to be.... >Recruitment of a Juco PF who can start now >A healthy Tom Frericks-don't schedule any games after a rodeo >A more assertive IO, take it strong to the hoop also shoot that mid range jumper the D gives you. RB can't be the only go to guy >JJ to develop strong over the summer-see #1 >AD to get some minutes, make that a lot of minutes, at PG over the summer >DP to be ready for D-1 ball, from what you guys say who have seen him play, he ain't far away and will step up immediately, but, he's still a frosh >TL to qualify...if he doesn't, land a JUCO pg >Darren Clarke has to develop over the summer into a scorer, again RB can't be the only go to guy >Have IV stay in St.Louis and play in the Bonner league >Find two guys to replace JF and CS's leadership and heart >A much better out of conference schedule Would this be a lineup that would give us a chance at the dance: DP pg RB #2 IO #3 JUCO PF #4 TF #5 or if TL qualifies start him instead of IO, I think that would be scary...starting two frosh against CUSA level talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Wasn't Xavier starting two Frosh at the end of the year...they certainly had a nice finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Xavier needed a pretty nice run to get into the dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I wouldn't worry about DP ... I also think IO should work at getting stronger and play the 4. He has a better game from within 6-8 ft. we need someone who can deliver the ball to him inside ... that leaves us needing a 3 should TL not qualify. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 3 is my biggest worry right now assuming we land a quality juco PF. At 4 we shall have the juco / IO and JJ. At 3, we have IO, Luke Meyer and, if Tommie does not qualify, probably Darren Clarke will take some minutes there as our tallest guard. Let's hope Darren puts on some weight and gains strength over the offseason. If we found out Tommie was going to prep school (or juco) in enough time to still land Foster at Chipola, he is a big guard who can help us at 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 At this point, I would like to see this lineup next year: Polk Drejaj(I wouldn't mind Liddell being here either) Bryant Ohanon Frericks Since we will be guard heavy, I would also like to see some more full court pressure. If we go with three guards, and Ohanon, we should have enough athletic ability on the floor to create havoc with more fullcourt pressure. I also really like the scoring punch of the above lineup. Yes, the aboce lineup could get beaten on the boards pretty consistently, but as it stands right now, I think a three guard lineup is our best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I wouldn't bet against Brad going with a 3 guard offense. If St Joe can plays 4 guards don't be suprised if Dwayne Anthony and Reggie lead the team in min. played. Obviously good guards are the most important part of winning teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 SLUDrew you beat me to the punch. I obviously agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Do we have reason to believe Foster would come here if offered? From what I've read, he seems to have a nice game. I certainly wouldn't wait around for TL to qualify if we have a chance for Foster. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And let's be brutally honest for a moment - if you can't get over the NCAA's ACT hurdle on the first try you need some remedial education. It might not be the worst thing for TL to have a year at prep school to better prepare himself for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >And let's be brutally honest for a moment - if you can't get >over the NCAA's ACT hurdle on the first try you need some >remedial education. My first ACT was pretty crummy due to lack of sleep and not much idea what to expect. I took it twice and nailed it on the second try. Lighten up on the "remedial education" bit. It could've been just a bad day on Tpommie's first try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >And let's be brutally honest for a moment - if you can't get >over the NCAA's ACT hurdle on the first try you need some >remedial education. It might not be the worst thing for TL >to have a year at prep school to better prepare himself for >life. While we're being brutally honest, let me say that the above sentiments mean you are, at best, ignorant and/or insensitive or, at worst, racially prejudiced (I hope it's the former). Point blank, both standardized college entrance exams (ACT and SAT) are biased against minorities and anyone, particularly, in the lower socioeconmic status. I feel it is unfair to Tommie Liddell and many other young people whose background (not intelligence) makes it improbable for them to get an 18 on the ACT for you to say that such people need remedial education. Furthermore, it is your bias that leads you to believe he is not already adequately prepared for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Since Liddell has signed a Letter of Intent, I don't think we can just recruit someone else for his scholarship without actually revoking his Letter of Intent first. My guess is they will give Liddell every chance to be eligible to play. While I don't like leaving the scholarship unfilled, I also don't think it is as big a deal as others seem to think. Brad plays with a short bench anyway, so most likely any late signing player probably wouldn't see much time anyway, unless we get lucky with a late qualifier like AD again. This team needs Clarke & JJ to step up and earn part of the minutes we are losing from Sloan & Fisher, that is probably more important than who replaces Liddell's scholarship if he doesn't qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Come on - that's a complete punt. I wouldn't be shocked by research showing minorities don't perform as well on standardized tests, but I'm talking about getting a qualifying score. That's not too difficult. EVEN IF you are correct that the test is so biased as to make it reasonable for minorities not to achieve the NCAA's qualifying score, a GPA of 2.5 (which is what's been posted on this board) at a public school in East St. Louis is not indicative of someone prepared for 4 years of high level (being somewhat generous here) college education. To start hurling around insults about bias and possible racial prejudice is beyond the pale. Frankly, I was more worried about TL's own well being than anything else. I'm telling you right now if my son has 2.5 gpa and non-qualifying score on the ACT I WILL BEG HIM to go the prep school route. That's what it's for - to PREP him for the world and (hopefully) 4 years of college education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I bet you had a qualifying score on your first try. And what about the 2.5 GPA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >Come on - that's a complete punt. I wouldn't be shocked by >research showing minorities don't perform as well on >standardized tests, but I'm talking about getting a >qualifying score. That's not too difficult. > >EVEN IF you are correct that the test is so biased as to >make it reasonable for minorities not to achieve the NCAA's >qualifying score, a GPA of 2.5 (which is what's been posted >on this board) at a public school in East St. Louis is not >indicative of someone prepared for 4 years of high level >(being somewhat generous here) college education. "...so biased as to make it reasonable for minorities not to achieve the NCAA's qualifying score..." It's not so much minorities as folks from lower SES (socioeconmic status). East St. Louis most certainly qualifies. > >To start hurling around insults about bias and possible >racial prejudice is beyond the pale. Frankly, I was more >worried about TL's own well being than anything else. I'm >telling you right now if my son has 2.5 gpa and >non-qualifying score on the ACT I WILL BEG HIM to go the >prep school route. That's what it's for - to PREP him for >the world and (hopefully) 4 years of college education. I didn't mean to insult you, but, in the vein of being brutally honest, I wanted to make you aware that the middle-class suburban world I presume you're from is not the center of the universe. Tommie Liddell's background and upbringing is most likely radically different from that of your son's. In all likelihood, your son would not experience such a scenario because you value education and instill and encourage the value of education in him. Tommie probably doesn't have such nurturing. He may well be intellectually capable of better grades and test scores, but if his exposure to the material of the ACT has been limited and a culture that encourages learning wasn't prevalent while he was in elementary school, immediate success on the ACT is unlikely. Hey, we may be saying very similar things, but I bristle at the suggestion of "remedial" education. It's one of those phrases that rubs me the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 College isn't the only way of getting prepared for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I agree wholeheartedly, but apparently TL has decided that's one of the ways he wants to prepare for life. If you're going to do something you should be prepared to do it well. All I'm saying is that in my opinion (based solely on test scores and grades, but those are important despite what some may say) TL could benefit and gain more from the college experience by taking an extra year to hone his (nonbasketball) tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 So what you're saying Thicks is that since Tommie is black and from East St. Louis his parents do not stress the importance of his education and he has not been nurtured in a way that would promote intellectual growth? Maybe it's due to the fact that the kid is 17-18 and is more interested in chicks and haning out with his buddies than studying for an exam. We can speculate all we want, but we shouldn't start calling people racist (which you have done on more than one occation)or say a kid doesn't have good influences because his family doesn't make 6 figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I understand that - I really feel for those that are brought up in an environment where they have virtually no chance to succeed. But that's exactly my point. TL, primarily due to basketball skills, will have the chance to get a college diploma. I just want to make sure he has the skills necessary to take advantage of that opportunity. Maybe I should have used a different word - but when you get to college there is so much going on (especially for an athelete) you need to have the basics down or there is no way you can keep up. I just want to make sure TL has the basics down. I truly believe (despite how it will impact Billiken basketball) that the best thing for TL - or any nonqualifier (or even "barely" qualifiers - as TL might end up being) is to take that year of prep school and use it to hone the basics so you put yourself in the best position to get your degree and succeed in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >So what you're saying Thicks is that since Tommie is black >and from East St. Louis his parents do not stress the >importance of his education and he has not been nurtured in >a way that would promote intellectual growth? > >Maybe it's due to the fact that the kid is 17-18 and is more >interested in chicks and haning out with his buddies than >studying for an exam. We can speculate all we want, but we >shouldn't start calling people racist (which you have done >on more than one occation)or say a kid doesn't have good >influences because his family doesn't make 6 figures. No, what I'm saying is that those things are possible -- even likely -- so it's wrong to insinuate that the kid must be stupid. I haven't called anyone racist, either today or in the past, as you say; rather I've pointed out some social inequities that most non-minorities likely aren't aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 the three doesnt bother me in the least. izik could and should play out there as well. if tl doesnt come this year, i would take the best available and deal with it. playing 3 guards wont hurt us a bit. most teams seem to be playing three guards these days. the biggest concern is a pf. we have nothing to fall back on there as izik has shown he doesnt like the contact for the inside, and justin hasnt proven his worth at all. thus we virtually have nothing solid there to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 i will tell you this, my seventh grade daughter took the act a couple of months ago for some kind of academically accelerated program. she was actually in the same classroom that saturday with jb jones and sean mcpeak from belleville west. she got an 18 on it. now if a seventh grader that hasnt even been exposed to high school chemistry, algebra, geometry, etc can pass the damn thing, you have to be brutally honest and take some stock in what nybill is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 thicks, i understand and to a degree agree with your post. that said, after seeing what my daughter did (who to be honest is no child prodigy) i have to say that if the average east st louis kid is not passing this test, the government needs to step in and either shut that school down or get in there and really rattle some chains. those teachers must be literally stealing paychecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 tommie liddell is not stupid. i have never talked to him, but all you have to do is watch him play basketball and see the marvelous decisions he makes on the floor to know he is a bright young man. imo there are two answers to the question on why? one either tommie hasnt tried up to his fullest capabilities and now it is too late to catch up, or two, the school system he is a product of is totally bogus. of course it could be a combination of the two as well. my guess is the school system at east st louis is just horrible. it needs to be fixed down at the primary grades first and then work it's way up. however, like so much of e st louis, there are so many people involved in the "system" that have their hands out and stuffing pockets that the needed funds to make the changes are gone before they get to what really needs to be fixed. sad stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 It's making up for the fact that everything else in the world is biased towards him as a star athlete. I don't buy the ACT is "biased" nonsense. Work hard, Study hard, and you'll do well on it. Anyone can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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