Turn the Jett's on

[HusakAttack]

Roy, I think it's fair to say that there are halves or games that KC disappears. GW is a good example. First half, KC was awesome. 2nd half, did he even have a point (i think he had a layup)? I don't know if this means that he is inconsistent on the whole, but there are definitely times when I'm asking "Is KC playing this game?"

I think people are most critical of KC because he has shown spurts of being very very good and when he disappears it is very noticeable.

Edit: The criticism that KC gets applies to everyone on this team this year and KC has proven to be more consistent than anyone this year.

+1

[Jaybird]

I will predict next year Cassity will average 33 minutes per game and Mitchell will average 32 minutes per game based on the way Majerus coaches.

[billikenbilly]

how in the world can you call the player that leads the team in scoring, assists and assists to turnover ratio, and might be the best help defensive guard player the billikens have had since carlos maccauley inconsistent?

this whole thread is ridiculous. if kyle cassity is a .5 player, the rest of our team doesnt add up to 2.0.

the "best help defensive guard." Does that mean he is the best help-side defensive guard we have had since maccauley? Is there an award for that?

[slufanskip]

I think a lot of people mistake the "hate" for Cassity. I think he has the ability to and can be the best player on the team right now, but it seems like he doesnt want to. And yes, I know he was not recruited to be a go-to guy or carry the team and that not his style but what I get upset with is his not becoming that in this opportunity this year. It's not his fault, I just thought he was going to explode for a big year and while he is leading the team in scoring, 9 ppg is not exactly setting the world on fire. There are tons of players who arent recruited to be go-to guys but make the most of their opportunities and develop into them. Gordon Heyward, Adam Morrison just to name a few from recent years.

I don't speak for everyone who criticizes him but I know I do simply cause I expected him to step up more this year, not because I think he is a bad player or doesn't bring anything to the team.

Anyone who really thought Kyle had the ability or the skill set to step up and be a go to type scorer really has no clue about the game of basketball

[billiken_roy]

the point is you are blaming the guy that should be the last one to throw stones at on this team.

the attacks on cassity would be like attacking vernon wells on the toronto blue jays for not winning the pennant. if only he had hit 60 homers and hit over 370 maybe the jays would have won the division.

well guess what. it takes more than one player. especially in basketball. and a lot of the same people that are on cassity are also the same blowhards saying "the billikens will be loaded next season".

the truth is we might have our two best scorers back. but the rest of the roster will be as mediocre as it has been shown to be this season. and that isnt kyle cassity's fault. if everyone was as consistent, precise and hard working as kyle cassity is, the team indeed would be a lot better. share your arrows with the rest of the roster and the rest of the program. this shouldnt be about kyle cassity.

[moytoy12]

the point is you are blaming the guy that should be the last one to throw stones at on this team.

the attacks on cassity would be like attacking vernon wells on the toronto blue jays for not winning the pennant. if only he had hit 60 homers and hit over 370 maybe the jays would have won the division.

well guess what. it takes more than one player. especially in basketball. and a lot of the same people that are on cassity are also the same blowhards saying "the billikens will be loaded next season".

the truth is we might have our two best scorers back. but the rest of the roster will be as mediocre as it has been shown to be this season. and that isnt kyle cassity's fault. if everyone was as consistent, precise and hard working as kyle cassity is, the team indeed would be a lot better. share your arrows with the rest of the roster and the rest of the program. this shouldnt be about kyle cassity.

I think the central point that this shouldn't be about KC is a fair one. But, for better or worse, he is the central focus on the team (not necessarily the leader, as I think KM has already adopted that role).

We also disagree on our view of the returning talent. KC is good. DE is good. MM is good. JJ has the potential to be very good. CE is rounding out his game. RL is getting valuable experience in RM's offense and has shown flashes of talent. Heck, even CS is trending up. BC is BC. I would say that CR is probably the only player that has not improved from last year and we know he's had a tough year personally.

Also, we're adding JB, KM and WR to this mix (I suspect Manning will redshirt). On paper, have we had another team this deep in the last 20-30 years? I don't get why you're so down on our prospects next year. The kids are taking their lumps this year, learning, improving, understanding RM's system and then we get the best "recruiting" class we've had in years, maybe ever.

Finally, we've had a chance to win almost every game this year against a pretty good schedule. It's not like we're getting blown out.

[HusakAttack]

Anyone who really thought Kyle had the ability or the skill set to step up and be a go to type scorer really has no clue about the game of basketball

Skip,

So I assume Mark Few is the only person in America (besides you) that has a clue about basketball since he was the only coach to give Adam Morrison a scholarship offer?

How is his skill set that off from Cassity's? He could shoot the ball, wasn't really quick, sounds familiar. The difference is he drove to the hole or elbow and either got a shot or got fouled, he wanted it. Its showing now cause he cant get off the bench in the Association cause he doesnt have that skill set, he overachieved in college. Granted, Morrison was taller and that got him a lot of the shots that KC wouldnt be able to but at least drive and force some shots and maybe get fouled.

I think it is very fair to say that Kyle should be putting up more than 9 ppg this year.

[billiken_roy]

Finally, we've had a chance to win almost every game this year against a pretty good schedule. It's not like we're getting blown out.

funny. i preached the same thing in the 2004-05 season and i was pretty much all by myself. in hindsight, i now see that losing bryant and frericks was as crippling then as losing mitchell and reed have been this season.

[moytoy12]

funny. i preached the same thing in the 2004-05 season and i was pretty much all by myself. in hindsight, i now see that losing bryant and frericks was as crippling then as losing mitchell and reed have been this season.

It certainly hurt that team, but to be fair, Bryant and Frericks weren't lost for the entire season.

[slufanskip]

Skip,

So I assume Mark Few is the only person in America (besides you) that has a clue about basketball since he was the only coach to give Adam Morrison a scholarship offer?

How is his skill set that off from Cassity's? He could shoot the ball, wasn't really quick, sounds familiar. The difference is he drove to the hole or elbow and either got a shot or got fouled, he wanted it. Its showing now cause he cant get off the bench in the Association cause he doesnt have that skill set, he overachieved in college. Granted, Morrison was taller and that got him a lot of the shots that KC wouldnt be able to but at least drive and force some shots and maybe get fouled.

I think it is very fair to say that Kyle should be putting up more than 9 ppg this year.

Are you really trying to say Adam Morrison and Kyle Cassity are close to the same player?

[ACE]

funny. i preached the same thing in the 2004-05 season and i was pretty much all by myself. in hindsight, i now see that losing bryant and frericks was as crippling then as losing mitchell and reed have been this season.

A few very big differences between the two season that need to be pointed out. We started the 2004-05 season with BOTH Bryant and Frericks, they played the majority of the nonconference scheule and the results were not pretty. In 04-05 they start out losing to both Austin Peay and Eastern Michigan. We then lose three home games in a row to Oral Roberts, Hawaii and Milwaukee. With both Bryant and Frericks we get blown out by 26 to Carbondale and then follow it up with the worst loss I ever remember... a 16 point loss at home to SEMO. If we had KM and Willie for the nonconference portion of this season, no way the results are that bad. Second point, and it is a biggee, KM and WR are better than RB and TF. Frericks was a role player with limited offensive ability. And as I pointed out, we were very bad with them in the lineup that year. Finally, with the exception of Ian, that team did not have much young talent on it. As moytoy pointed out, this year's team has an outstanding group of freshmen who are gaining valuable experience.

[billiken_roy]

A few very big differences between the two season that need to be pointed out. We started the 2004-05 season with BOTH Bryant and Frericks, they played the majority of the nonconference scheule and the results were not pretty. In 04-05 they start out losing to both Austin Peay and Eastern Michigan. We then lose three home games in a row to Oral Roberts, Hawaii and Milwaukee. With both Bryant and Frericks we get blown out by 26 to Carbondale and then follow it up with the worst loss I ever remember... a 16 point loss at home to SEMO. If we had KM and Willie for the nonconference portion of this season, no way the results are that bad. Second point, and it is a biggee, KM and WR are better than RB and TF. Frericks was a role player with limited offensive ability. And as I pointed out, we were very bad with them in the lineup that year. Finally, with the exception of Ian, that team did not have much young talent on it. As moytoy pointed out, this year's team has an outstanding group of freshmen who are gaining valuable experience.

ace, if your above is accurate, then it is very confusing as to how the results this season will be so similar with as you state "with the exception of Ian, that team did not have much young talent on it" and "this year's team has an outstanding group of freshmen who are gaining valuable experience". you state that frericks and bryant werent as good as mitchell and reed, our talent was not good, and couple that with the fact we played in a far tougher conference yet our record then will be very similar to what it appears this season is going to end. amazing.

something doesnt add up.

[NH]

This is all a little silly to me.

People seem to want KC to go out and be a big-time scorer and take over in late games. Then, when he doesn't, they say he really isn't that good or we need a replacement or what have you. Is there no middle ground?

Kyle is what he is. A guard with average size, average athleticism and below-average strength. I don't know how people want that guy to go out and create his own shot late in the shot-clock or late in games. Kyle is not the sort of player who forces bad shots and we're going to have to live with that. But that doesn't mean he's not a good and valuable player and its dumb to insinuate that it does.

Kyle, in a year where he has played as the team leader, best scorer, best defender doing all of that with a bum ankle, has improved his FG%, 3P%, Assist to TO ratio and Points Per Game. That is unheard of.

Just because you are not a pure scorer doesn't mean you are a "role player" that can be easily replaced. I can't wait to see how KC plays with his teammates back next year.

But Roy, we have many players as hard working as KC. Hard work isn't what makes him a great player, his IQ is.

[HusakAttack]

Are you really trying to say Adam Morrison and Kyle Cassity are close to the same player?

I am making the argument that players CAN change and evolve from what they were recruited to be. Adam Morrison is the ultimate example of that.

[slufanskip]

This is all a little silly to me.

People seem to want KC to go out and be a big-time scorer and take over in late games. Then, when he doesn't, they say he really isn't that good or we need a replacement or what have you. Is there no middle ground?

Kyle is what he is. A guard with average size, average athleticism and below-average strength. I don't know how people want that guy to go out and create his own shot late in the shot-clock or late in games. Kyle is not the sort of player who forces bad shots and we're going to have to live with that. But that doesn't mean he's not a good and valuable player and its dumb to insinuate that it does.

Kyle, in a year where he has played as the team leader, best scorer, best defender doing all of that with a bum ankle, has improved his FG%, 3P%, Assist to TO ratio and Points Per Game. That is unheard of.

Just because you are not a pure scorer doesn't mean you are a "role player" that can be easily replaced. I can't wait to see how KC plays with his teammates back next year.

But Roy, we have many players as hard working as KC. Hard work isn't what makes him a great player, his IQ is.

Very well said.

[SShoe]

ace, if your above is accurate, then it is very confusing as to how the results this season will be so similar with as you state "with the exception of Ian, that team did not have much young talent on it" and "this year's team has an outstanding group of freshmen who are gaining valuable experience". you state that frericks and bryant werent as good as mitchell and reed, our talent was not good, and couple that with the fact we played in a far tougher conference yet our record then will be very similar to what it appears this season is going to end. amazing.

something doesnt add up.

Yeah, your perspective. That team still relied heavily on juniors and seniors for their scoring.

Reggie played in 24 games that season and started 20 of them. He averaged 12 ppg throughout the season. Additionally, it was pretty widely recognized that KM was our best player since Marquee (I know you love KL and TL, but Mitchell was better by his sophomore year) and Willie was the best big we've had since Ian, possibly even Bonner. Comparing their suspensions to Reggie Bryant's and Tom Frericks' injuries is absurd.

That team also had Izik Ohanon who managed to average 11 ppg that season, his senior year.

We don't have one player averaging double figures. 2 of our top 3 scorers are freshman.

Yeah, I'd say this is a much different situation.

[ACE]

ace, if your above is accurate, then it is very confusing as to how the results this season will be so similar with as you state "with the exception of Ian, that team did not have much young talent on it" and "this year's team has an outstanding group of freshmen who are gaining valuable experience". you state that frericks and bryant werent as good as mitchell and reed, our talent was not good, and couple that with the fact we played in a far tougher conference yet our record then will be very similar to what it appears this season is going to end. amazing.

something doesnt add up.

We never got to see how this year's team would have played with KM and WR. We DID get to see how the 2004-05 played WITH Reggie and TF in the nonconference schedule and it was not pretty. That season was a bust even before TF and RB got hurt. They started the season 2-10... including a 16 point loss to SEMO!

[billiken_roy]

Yeah, your perspective. That team still relied heavily on juniors and seniors for their scoring.

Reggie played in 24 games that season and started 20 of them. He averaged 12 ppg throughout the season. Additionally, it was pretty widely recognized that KM was our best player since Marquee (I know you love KL and TL, but Mitchell was better by his sophomore year) and Willie was the best big we've had since Ian, possibly even Bonner. Comparing their suspensions to Reggie Bryant's and Tom Frericks' injuries is absurd.

That team also had Izik Ohanon who managed to average 11 ppg that season, his senior year.

We don't have one player averaging double figures. 2 of our top 3 scorers are freshman.

Yeah, I'd say this is a much different situation.

so we played in a better league had worse players but will end up with same record with this team in a lesser conference with a superior roster. ok.

[slufanskip]

I am making the argument that players CAN change and evolve from what they were recruited to be. Adam Morrison is the ultimate example of that.

It's not what he was recruited to be that is stopping him from being that guy so many want him to be. It's who he is that is stopping him

[dlarry]

We then lose three home games in a row to Oral Roberts, Hawaii and Milwaukee.

To be fair how could any team be expected to make it through that stretch of murders row?

[courtside]

the point is you are blaming the guy that should be the last one to throw stones at on this team.

the attacks on cassity would be like attacking vernon wells on the toronto blue jays for not winning the pennant. if only he had hit 60 homers and hit over 370 maybe the jays would have won the division.

well guess what. it takes more than one player. especially in basketball. and a lot of the same people that are on cassity are also the same blowhards saying "the billikens will be loaded next season".

the truth is we might have our two best scorers back. but the rest of the roster will be as mediocre as it has been shown to be this season. and that isnt kyle cassity's fault. if everyone was as consistent, precise and hard working as kyle cassity is, the team indeed would be a lot better. share your arrows with the rest of the roster and the rest of the program. this shouldnt be about kyle cassity.

Vernon Wells? Really? That doesn't work. Wells was one of the better offensive players in all of baseball. Cassity is not one of the better offensive players in all of college hoops.

You compared him to an elite offensive player. As we all know, Cassity is 6th on his own team in percent of shots taken. He is not rated in Ken Pomeroy's top 70 A-10 offensive players. He is ranked 76th in fouls drawn per 40 minutes in the A-10. He's 82nd in offensive rebound percentage in the A-10. He's 80th in defensive reounding percentage in the A-10. He's 20th in the league in minutes. Comparing him to an elite offensive player is not the way to go.

Cassity stands out for casual fans because of those number of minutes played, and because he is one of the older players on the team. He's not only been around for almost three seasons, he's played a lot in those three seasons. Therefore he is an easy target for casual fans when it comes to offense...and when it comes to offense compared to the amount of minutes he plays.

Kyle is a solid role player for SLU. He's never going to be SLU's offensive star or one of them. He's playing much more out of necessity. He'll still get a lot of minutes next year. But, Barnett will get a lot of minutes, McCall and Jett will be significantly improved next year, etc...I'm hoping Kyle will continue to improve his offensive efficiency as well as his aggressiveness at both ends next season and be a solid leader and role player for SLU.

Roy will always have an affinity for any Metro East/down state Illinois player.

[SShoe]

so we played in a better league had worse players but will end up with same record with this team in a lesser conference with a superior roster. ok.

Well, given that there were two heavily contributing seniors on that year's team, I might insinuate that team didn't necessarily have worse players than this year's team. Sure, when looking at a class by class comparison, this year's freshmen are far better than that year's freshmen. The sophomore class is probably a toss-up given Ian vs. Cody. And this year's junior class (KC and BC only) is better than that year's class. But this team has no seniors and that team had two pretty good ones.

When everybody on this board suggests this team will be loaded next year, it includes the addition of two All-Conference caliber players, Barnett (who has reached legendary status at this point), and general maturation of every player on this team. Had we added three players of their caliber to that 04-05 team without losing anybody, I might have used the word "loaded" then as well.

[billiken_roy]

wells was not elite last year. he was good, but he wasnt albert or even holiday.

my point was take the best player off a mediocre team and insist if he was only better we would have won more is ridiculous. one player doesnt make a team.

[slufanskip]

wells was not elite last year. he was good, but he wasnt albert or even holiday.

my point was take the best player off a mediocre team and insist if he was only better we would have won more is ridiculous. one player doesnt make a team.

Comparing baseball and basketball is silly. A baseball player is 1 of 9 on the field, a basketball player is one of 5. One great basketball player can easily make a team better. If MM had come in and scored 16ppg we'd have won a few more games this year.

[courtside]

wells was not elite last year. he was good, but he wasnt albert or even holiday.

my point was take the best player off a mediocre team and insist if he was only better we would have won more is ridiculous. one player doesnt make a team.

Look at what you just did Roy. You just compared Wells to a couple of the better players in the game. I don't think you'd want others to compare Cassity to Jimmer or Walker etc...

Last year btw was arguably Wells 3rd best season in the majors. Wells' problem? He, in hoops terms is a "chucker." He's never walked 60 times in a season. Dude never bought in to walks.

I don't think SLU would have won more this year without Cassity if SLU couldn't add anyone else in his place. However, this best player on the team stuff, etc...is really silly too. SLU doesn't have a best player this year. Offensively Kyle falls way far down the list for this year's team. Kyle isn't really elite at any one thing.

I explained why he's a quick easy target in my previous post. But as has been mentioned to you, other guys play hard too, not just Kyle. Other guys do different things as good and better than Kyle.

I'm hopeful with improved returning players and adding 3 new experienced players that Kyle's efficiency will improve in all aspects of his game. I'm confident that it will.