Barnett Transfers from Toledo to SLU

[slufanskip]

The last page of this is pretty weird.

BRoy starting defending KC but I didnt even see anyone ripping him. I saw people saying he should shoot more(true) and people saying his minutes will decrease this year(probably true). KC took a lot of undeserved krap at the beggining of the year but his play swayed the crowed in his favor. By the midpoint of the season his critics werent busing his balls but wanting him to shoot more and began to see what he meant to the team. How this turned into a KC vs CS debate is beyond me but I think we will see a similar Freshman to sophmore improvent from CS that we saw from KC and it will pay off big for the team

exactly. There was a lot of criticism of KC early, and to be honest, he was playing pretty poorly. However, he stepped it up and I haven't seen this huge wave of criticism since. I think the large majority of the board likes KC, but thinks he should be more agressive offensively, and also think his playing time will decrease a bit due to his team becoming deeper and more talented.

[kmbilliken]

Some players are going to improve and step up, others won't and will lose minutes. Its just nice to have quality and depth to provide competition for minutes rather than hoping to have 8 guys who can legitimately contribute. RM has brought in 4 more players this year who, if we had brought in any one of under prior regimes, we would have been looking to build our team around. Now, with all returning starters, none of them are guaranteed to crack the starting lineup. RM has earned his money.

[kevinfootes]

Some players are going to improve and step up, others won't and will lose minutes. Its just nice to have quality and depth to provide competition for minutes rather than hoping to have 8 guys who can legitimately contribute. RM has brought in 4 more players this year who, if we had brought in any one of under prior regimes, we would have been looking to build our team around. Now, with all returning starters, none of them are guaranteed to crack the starting lineup. RM has earned his money.

Once we get to the big dance I'll agree with yor last statement. I'm confident we'll get there, but not willing to spike the ball on the 15 yeard line.

[NH]

Some players are going to improve and step up, others won't and will lose minutes. Its just nice to have quality and depth to provide competition for minutes rather than hoping to have 8 guys who can legitimately contribute. RM has brought in 4 more players this year who, if we had brought in any one of under prior regimes, we would have been looking to build our team around. Now, with all returning starters, none of them are guaranteed to crack the starting lineup. RM has earned his money.

I agree with Footes, We have paid A million dollars a year to a coach who has not gotten us to the NIT. I think that will change this year, but that is like saying Stephen Strasburg has lived up to his contract.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

some people have bagged CS from the time he has set foot on the court for SLU , especially Roy who seems to be the kids biggest critic from day 1 (personal motives ?) , yes it may be justified and yet it might not be , but considering he is a freshman who had to play big minutes due to our roster & injuries he has not done to bad , obviously he was just a passenger in a team that finished 4th in their conference maybe if we had sent him back to OZ early enough we might have won the NCAA title . weakest link was a bit over the top !!

The kids that do read this must think they have some of the the best fans supporting them,

I agree CS`s minutes will drop due to the talent on the team coming in and hopefully less injuries and will probably play behind KC who will still be playing a min of 30 mins. CS`s PT will only probably be 10-15 mins

And at the end of the season the revolving door we will see our weakest link tranfer to a team were he will be a less of a burden, which im sure will make Roy happy.

And will make backhand happy.

[MB73]

Once we get to the big dance I'll agree with yor last statement. I'm confident we'll get there, but not willing to spike the ball on the 15 yeard line.

But we are "on schedule".

If we had CE all yr, OR if we didn't have 2 of 6 guards out all yr we would have easily made NIT. Next yr injuries won't hurt nearly as much (deep!).

Except for raw-meat-dealing type coaches like Calipari, Huggins, etc, Majerus was one of the few that could get us here this fast.

I say he has earned his pay: absolutely.

[NH]

But we are "on schedule".

If we had CE all yr, OR if we didn't have 2 of 6 guards out all yr we would have easily made NIT. Next yr injuries won't hurt nearly as much (deep!).

Except for raw-meat-dealing type coaches like Calipari, Huggins, etc, Majerus was one of the few that could get us here this fast.

I say he has earned his pay: absolutely.

The thing is, we are not there yet. Maybe we have the pieces, but we dont know for sure. Keep in mind this is going to be Majerus' fourth year so Its no like he turned us around in that quickly. Obviously there were circumstances which led to it being a little slower, but I wouldn't call what Majerus has done at SLU a miracle or anything.

[MB73]

The thing is, we are not there yet. Maybe we have the pieces, but we dont know for sure. Keep in mind this is going to be Majerus' fourth year so Its no like he turned us around in that quickly. Obviously there were circumstances which led to it being a little slower, but I wouldn't call what Majerus has done at SLU a miracle or anything.

I didn't say "miracle". You did.

But we are now ahead of schedule, considering the hand RM was dealt talent wise, tradition wise, at tiny SLU, in a non BCS conference.

Hey, I've been watching this team wallow (mostly) in mediocrity for 40+ yrs... how long have you?

Hard to come this far this fast.

AND I say Majerus is definitely worth his salary, some posters say not so. That is my point.

Agree, with others, though, that unless there are some very significant injuries, RM needs to make NCAA's this yr.

I think we will... and maybe win a first round game.

[NH]

I didn't say "miracle". You did.

But we are now ahead of schedule for the hand he was dealt talent wise at tiny SLU in a non BCS conference.

Hey, I've been watching this team (mostly) wallow in mediocrity for 40+ yrs... how long have you?

I say he is worth his salary, I think some say not so. That is my point.

Agree, with others, though, that unless there are some very significant injuries, RM needs to make NCAA's this yr.

I think we will... and maybe win a first round game.

You may have been watching longer, but I bet Ive been watching college basketball more closely and programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BCS conferences. Lets not act like Majerus took a team of nobodies and made them all-stars. He took a 20 win team to a... 20 win team. Except he did it in a nicer arena to recruit to and with double the salary of the previous coach. If you think that is earning his salary then I guess we can disagree.

I think we will make the tournament this year and I am very pleased with the direction the program is going and happy with the contract RM was given. Im sure RM will get results but until then I dont see how you can say he has done anything worthy of being paid as much as he is.

[Billikan]

You may have been watching longer, but I bet Ive been watching college basketball more closely and programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BCS conferences. Lets not act like Majerus took a team of nobodies and made them all-stars. He took a 20 win team to a... 20 win team. Except he did it in a nicer arena to recruit to and with double the salary of the previous coach. If you think that is earning his salary then I guess we can disagree.

I think we will make the tournament this year and I am very pleased with the direction the program is going and happy with the contract RM was given. Im sure RM will get results but until then I dont see how you can say he has done anything worthy of being paid as much as he is.

You don't have a clue as to what it means to earn a salary. This coach was brought in to "build" a program from one that was not at a high level. In my mind, the first thing you look at is the recruiting. There is no doubt that our recruiting is light years better than it has ever been in the last few decades, maybe ever. The next thing you look at is player development and individual academic and personal development. Our players have improved and his first class with KM, Willie, Conklin and Kyle has continued to improve substantially. Conklin was slowed by injuries but the other three each have progressed very well. They have more improvement to show us but they are really nice players with KM and Willie having star potential by their senior year. On a personal basis, these players are working hard on academics as well.

Injuries have hurt but the staff has done a wonderful job of filling in with new recruits. Last years class was slowed by the late eligibility of CE but that group including CR and CS played much better at the end of the year except for CE who seemed to be out of gas. I expect them to show considerable development and improvement over the summer just like KM, Willie and Kyle did last year.

Then if you add what might be the best recruiting class of the bunch, collectively the three classes of this staff and RM are the best three classes we have had back to back to back in at least 30 years, maybe ever. Even in the good years we had trouble putting classes back to back to back. If Lisch and Liddell had played with this kind of classes the sky would have been the limit for this team. But we never got players with their ability to play with them.

The bottom line is that RM was paid to "build" a new team, one that could compete at a very high level and his first three classes have been really good. If we do not have a great season the year that KM and Willie are seniors then you can start talking about him earning his pay but so far he has done everything we expected as a recruiter and a developer of players and a coach who expects his players to get a real education. He is also outstanding with the X and O part of the game. He is not perfect as we all know but overall he has done a fine job.

[MB73]

You may have been watching longer, but I bet Ive been watching college basketball more closely and programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BCS conferences. Lets not act like Majerus took a team of nobodies and made them all-stars. He took a 20 win team to a... 20 win team. Except he did it in a nicer arena to recruit to and with double the salary of the previous coach. If you think that is earning his salary then I guess we can disagree.

I think we will make the tournament this year and I am very pleased with the direction the program is going and happy with the contract RM was given. Im sure RM will get results but until then I dont see how you can say he has done anything worthy of being paid as much as he is.

First statement, very, very wrong; you know not who you are dealing with...

2nd statement = just plain wrong.

[Billsrmajic]

You may have been watching longer, but I bet Ive been watching college basketball more closely and programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BCS conferences. Lets not act like Majerus took a team of nobodies and made them all-stars. He took a 20 win team to a... 20 win team. Except he did it in a nicer arena to recruit to and with double the salary of the previous coach. If you think that is earning his salary then I guess we can disagree.

I think we will make the tournament this year and I am very pleased with the direction the program is going and happy with the contract RM was given. Im sure RM will get results but until then I dont see how you can say he has done anything worthy of being paid as much as he is.

Why don't you judge Rick's performance by comparing the roster he took over with the roster he has created four years later? That should tell you how much the team has improved. IMO, the 2010-11 team would beat the 2007-08 team 9 of 10 times.

It's not easy to turn around a program with little tradition. You said "programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BSC conferences". Perhaps some examples would help.

Rick has earned his salary, and the good times have just begun.

[NH]

First statement, very, very wrong; you know not who you are dealing with...

2nd statement = just plain wrong.

I am pretty confident in my original statement, with both regards to the Bills and college basketball as a whole.

And it wold be very interesting to see the team from Soderberg's last year play this team, I think it would be a close game.

People are obviously misunderstanding my point. I am not saying RM will not earn his contract or that it was a bad contract. But, when you take over a 20 win team and have a nice arena and play in a solid conference you should not settle for the CBI after three years when the salary is $1,000,000. I think after this year I will not be saying the same thing. But, we havent even made the NIT and until we do, you cannot say it was worth $1,000,000 a year.

[NH]

It's not easy to turn around a program with little tradition. You said "programs are turned around in two or three years all the time, even non-BSC conferences". Perhaps some examples would help.

Sure, off the top of my head I would say UTEP, St. Mary's, VCU were all turned around in 2-3 years.

[Clock_Tower]

I am pretty confident in my original statement, with both regards to the Bills and college basketball as a whole.

And it wold be very interesting to see the team from Soderberg's last year play this team, I think it would be a close game.

People are obviously misunderstanding my point. I am not saying RM will not earn his contract or that it was a bad contract. But, when you take over a 20 win team and have a nice arena and play in a solid conference you should not settle for the CBI after three years when the salary is $1,000,000. I think after this year I will not be saying the same thing. But, we havent even made the NIT and until we do, you cannot say it was worth $1,000,000 a year.

NH. Sorry but your recent posts are showing your young age, immaturity and lack of experience.

We get your point about RM/SLU not making the Tourney yet but... First, the final game of the CBI is not the NIT but SLU should have been an NIT team even with the injuries and lack of CE for over half the year. Second, RM also was not able to recruit ANY players that first year and instead had to coach Brad's players. None of the other programs you mentioned hired their coach under the late circumstances as SLU and RM. Third, your comparison with Brad's last year (20 win season) is unfair since it ended with IV and Brad had NOTHING to replace him with. Old history. No way would BS had won 20+ games w/o IV and with the nearly no one coming in. Fourth, RM has redone the whole program with freshmen while choosing not to take the quick fix (JUCOs and transfers). Fifth, along the way, RM suffered really bad breaks regarding injuries and the NCAA Clearinghouse. W/o so many bad breaks, or if CE had been here the whole year as planned, SLU would have made the Tourney. Sixth, 23 wins with all the bad breaks is still more wins than Brad had his last year.

Finally, if you truly think any of Brad's teams could stack up to last year's team, then I believe I think I need to rethink how much credit I've given you for your basketball knowledge. IV, KL and TL had good talent like KM, CE and WR but LM, DB and others could not handle BC, KC, CS, CR, JJ and JS. No way.

[jbizzle09]

NH. Sorry but your recent posts are showing your young age, immaturity and lack of experience.

We get your point about RM/SLU not making the Tourney yet but... First, the final game of the CBI is not the NIT but SLU should have been an NIT team even with the injuries and lack of CE for over half the year. Second, RM also was not able to recruit ANY players that first year and instead had to coach Brad's players. None of the other programs you mentioned hired their coach under the late circumstances as SLU and RM. Third, your comparison with Brad's last year (20 win season) is unfair since it ended with IV and Brad had NOTHING to replace him with. Old history. No way would BS had won 20+ games w/o IV and with the nearly no one coming in. Fourth, RM has redone the whole program with freshmen while choosing not to take the quick fix (JUCOs and transfers). Fifth, along the way, RM suffered really bad breaks regarding injuries and the NCAA Clearinghouse. W/o so many bad breaks, or if CE had been here the whole year as planned, SLU would have made the Tourney. Sixth, 23 wins with all the bad breaks is still more wins than Brad had his last year.

Finally, if you truly think any of Brad's teams could stack up to last year's team, then I believe I think I need to rethink how much credit I've given you for your basketball knowledge. IV, KL and TL had good talent like KM, CE and WR but LM, DB and others could not handle BC, KC, CS, CR, JJ and JS. No way.

+1

[NH]

NH. Sorry but your recent posts are showing your young age, immaturity and lack of experience.

We get your point about RM/SLU not making the Tourney yet but... First, the final game of the CBI is not the NIT but SLU should have been an NIT team even with the injuries and lack of CE for over half the year. Second, RM also was not able to recruit ANY players that first year and instead had to coach Brad's players. None of the other programs you mentioned hired their coach under the late circumstances as SLU and RM. Third, your comparison with Brad's last year (20 win season) is unfair since it ended with IV and Brad had NOTHING to replace him with. Old history. No way would BS had won 20+ games w/o IV and with the nearly no one coming in. Fourth, RM has redone the whole program with freshmen while choosing not to take the quick fix (JUCOs and transfers). Fifth, along the way, RM suffered really bad breaks regarding injuries and the NCAA Clearinghouse. W/o so many bad breaks, or if CE had been here the whole year as planned, SLU would have made the Tourney. Sixth, 23 wins with all the bad breaks is still more wins than Brad had his last year.

Finally, if you truly think any of Brad's teams could stack up to last year's team, then I believe I think I need to rethink how much credit I've given you for your basketball knowledge. IV, KL and TL had good talent like KM, CE and WR but LM, DB and others could not handle BC, KC, CS, CR, JJ and JS. No way.

I agree with the majority of your comments and think you make good points. By the way, the CBI was not around BS's final year so he didn't have a chance at 23 wins. We can only compare wins before the CBI.

I am not saying RM has not done a great job. My only points are that 1)Until we make the tournament, you cannot consider RM's tenure at SLU a complete success and 2) While he has done a good job, there are other coaches who have also done good jobs. RM has done as much as I would have expected, but he has not taken us from terrible to amazing overnight as some posters would have you believe.

Let's compare the rosters from BS's last year and RM's last year

DP vs. KM- Not even close. KM is superior in every way except for defense.

KL vs. KC- Advantage given to KL. Better scorer and defender

TL vs. CS- Clear advantage to TL. Better in every aspect of the game (I am comparing the sophomore TL, not the version that regressed the next two years)

LM vs. CE- Advantage to CE but closer than a lot of people would think. Very good match-up for LM.

IV vs. WR- Advantage Ian for consistency and strengh. Plus has experience over Willie.

Bench- Clear advantage to the 2009-2010 squad. But, in a game where both teams keep the score low, depth would not be as much a factor.

Coaching- Advantage RM, but BS was not too bad of an in-game coach. He would certainly have a good strategy for KM and WR.

I would guess that would be a tight game. Now I would take the current roster over that one in a jiffy, but my point was that that team was pretty close to this years.

[joe_davola]

NH. Sorry but your recent posts are showing your young age, immaturity and lack of experience.

We get your point about RM/SLU not making the Tourney yet but... First, the final game of the CBI is not the NIT but SLU should have been an NIT team even with the injuries and lack of CE for over half the year. Second, RM also was not able to recruit ANY players that first year and instead had to coach Brad's players. None of the other programs you mentioned hired their coach under the late circumstances as SLU and RM. Third, your comparison with Brad's last year (20 win season) is unfair since it ended with IV and Brad had NOTHING to replace him with. Old history. No way would BS had won 20+ games w/o IV and with the nearly no one coming in. Fourth, RM has redone the whole program with freshmen while choosing not to take the quick fix (JUCOs and transfers). Fifth, along the way, RM suffered really bad breaks regarding injuries and the NCAA Clearinghouse. W/o so many bad breaks, or if CE had been here the whole year as planned, SLU would have made the Tourney. Sixth, 23 wins with all the bad breaks is still more wins than Brad had his last year.

Finally, if you truly think any of Brad's teams could stack up to last year's team, then I believe I think I need to rethink how much credit I've given you for your basketball knowledge. IV, KL and TL had good talent like KM, CE and WR but LM, DB and others could not handle BC, KC, CS, CR, JJ and JS. No way.

Good post Clock...I think that about says it all.

[billiken_roy]

You don't have a clue as to what it means to earn a salary. This coach was brought in to "build" a program from one that was not at a high level. In my mind, the first thing you look at is the recruiting. There is no doubt that our recruiting is light years better than it has ever been in the last few decades, maybe ever. The next thing you look at is player development and individual academic and personal development. Our players have improved and his first class with KM, Willie, Conklin and Kyle has continued to improve substantially. Conklin was slowed by injuries but the other three each have progressed very well. They have more improvement to show us but they are really nice players with KM and Willie having star potential by their senior year. On a personal basis, these players are working hard on academics as well.

Injuries have hurt but the staff has done a wonderful job of filling in with new recruits. Last years class was slowed by the late eligibility of CE but that group including CR and CS played much better at the end of the year except for CE who seemed to be out of gas. I expect them to show considerable development and improvement over the summer just like KM, Willie and Kyle did last year.

Then if you add what might be the best recruiting class of the bunch, collectively the three classes of this staff and RM are the best three classes we have had back to back to back in at least 30 years, maybe ever. Even in the good years we had trouble putting classes back to back to back. If Lisch and Liddell had played with this kind of classes the sky would have been the limit for this team. But we never got players with their ability to play with them.

The bottom line is that RM was paid to "build" a new team, one that could compete at a very high level and his first three classes have been really good. If we do not have a great season the year that KM and Willie are seniors then you can start talking about him earning his pay but so far he has done everything we expected as a recruiter and a developer of players and a coach who expects his players to get a real education. He is also outstanding with the X and O part of the game. He is not perfect as we all know but overall he has done a fine job.

i probably would have left that "personal development" out considering the recent events and number of players he annually deems not developed enough to keep around. otherwise a pretty good post.

[Archy McNally]

Come on roy. You should just admit that Kyle is your new fair haired boy, a la Daniel Lisch. No one is taking cheapshots at Kyle. You, on the other hand, are trying to deflect by making negative posts about Christian. What kind of a fan does that? Suggesting that Kyle's minutes might decrease next year is not calling him the weakest link. On good teams with deep rosters lots of guys get PT. It's called an ADVANTAGE, and it's on we haven't had in some time.

I call BS on that one. I thought it was a pretty interesting point about the stats compared to Christian, yet nobody complains about him shooting too much.

KC gets criticized fairly and unfairly more on this board than anyone. They come up in post having nothing to do with him. Jordan transferring - "Great, we can see KC throw up more bricks." What kind of fan does that. Of course, you hear it at the game all the time, no matter where you sit. Don't know why. Probably just do to the way he looks.

I do think both him and Christian are starting next year and the frosh are sitting.

[joe_davola]

i probably would have left that "personal development" out considering the recent events and number of players he annually deems not developed enough to keep around. otherwise a pretty good post.

1) You don't know what happened and who did what...so quit making it out that way.

2) If something happened in terms of staying out late and driking underage...and that is an 'IF' because we don't know this either, that has nothing to do with big Rick. Kids at this age probably make more mistakes than at any other age due to being in new surroundings, going through certain 'thing's in life, being around 10K people the same age as you with a campus surrounded by bars. What the heck do you expect? 100% of my friends drank underage and every single one is an upstanding participant in society. At the least, I would bet that Rick's kids walk out of SLU with a great head on their shoulders and the ability to handle adversity when out in the workforce. Like I said before, Rick is not only preparing these student athletes for basketball, he is indirectly preparing these guys for the world outside basketball. There is a method to his madness if you will.

[kevinfootes]

But we are "on schedule".

If we had CE all yr, OR if we didn't have 2 of 6 guards out all yr we would have easily made NIT. Next yr injuries won't hurt nearly as much (deep!).

Except for raw-meat-dealing type coaches like Calipari, Huggins, etc, Majerus was one of the few that could get us here this fast.

I say he has earned his pay: absolutely.

I don't disagree that things are looking good. As I've posted many times, I'm confident we'll get there. There are plenty of "ifs" about last season, like any other season. I'll celebrate "when" we get there. Until then, I'll remain confident without declaring a "mission completed" on RM's performance.

If RM doesn't get us to the big dance this year, I'll be extremely disappointed. If it doesn't happen for the '11-'12 season, his status should be seriously evaluated IMO. I don't think it will be an issue. Based on the facilities he has, the funding for assistant coaches, his own compensation, etc., there is no reason for him to fail.

[MB73]

I don't disagree that things are looking good. As I've posted many times, I'm confident we'll get there. There are plenty of "ifs" about last season, like any other season. I'll celebrate "when" we get there. Until then, I'll remain confident without declaring a "mission completed" on RM's performance.

If RM doesn't get us to the big dance this year, I'll be extremely disappointed. If it doesn't happen for the '11-'12 season, his status should be seriously evaluated IMO. I don't think it will be an issue. Based on the facilities he has, the funding for assistant coaches, his own compensation, etc., there is no reason for him to fail.

We are about on the same page.

The biggest reason for us to fail besides, of course, some key injuries, is the schedule.

If we play too many foo-foo non conference teams again, goddam RPI could hurt us.

[MB73]

i probably would have left that "personal development" out considering the recent events and number of players he annually deems not developed enough to keep around. otherwise a pretty good post.

Stop it. Move on.

Quit putting this cr*p on the board.

Unsubstantiated.

[kevinfootes]

We are about on the same page.

The biggest reason for us to fail besides, of course, some key injuries, is the schedule.

If we play too many foo-foo non conference teams again, goddam RPI could hurt us.

I'm hoping that the experience we'll bring into next season will keep us from having a clunker like we've had the past 2 years with teams like DePaul and Iowa State. I'd also like to see a somewhat tougher non-conference schedule, but that topic can (and has been) part of it's own thread.