Paul E

[Guest BillikenReport]

But it is just as bad.

The Eckerle situation is different from the others.

He was planning to go to SLU anyway, on a partial academic scholarship, when Majerus offered him a full athletic scholarship for his freshman year. That turned into — because Majerus couldn't find a new player worth giving the scholarship to — a scholarship for Eckerle's sophomore and junior years.

So Eckerle has had three years of his SLU education paid for, with the understanding that his scholarship would eventually go to someone else. Majerus said that repeatedly for a few years. That's not a surprise to Eckerle.

[Majerus Magic]

We are talking about a kid that turned down Ivy League schools to come to slu. I'm sure that the fine people at slu can find a way to accomodate Paul.

[billiken_roy]

We are talking about a kid that turned down Ivy League schools to come to slu. I'm sure that the fine people at slu can find a way to accomodate Paul.

i guarantee you that slu cannot do anything out of the norm. the ncaa would be all over it. if paul is no longer getting an athletic scholarship, he likely cannot be rewarded anymore than the typical merit scholarship awardee at slu. no room and board and no full ride. he also will no longer be able to participate in offseason slu basketball or go on offseason trips.

while i understand he was being told from day one "year to year" and "when we need your scholarship we will take it back". that doesnt make it right. especially considering the help he has been on and off the court. the fine example he sets as a student athlete, etc. kids like paul are the ones that should be taken care of by slu. he should be the example of a slu student athlete. instead he is kicked to the curb. thanks see ya.

[billikenfan05]

i guarantee you that slu cannot do anything out of the norm. the ncaa would be all over it. if paul is no longer getting an athletic scholarship, he likely cannot be rewarded anymore than the typical merit scholarship awardee at slu. no room and board and no full ride. he also will no longer be able to participate in offseason slu basketball or go on offseason trips.

while i understand he was being told from day one "year to year" and "when we need your scholarship we will take it back". that doesnt make it right. especially considering the help he has been on and off the court. the fine example he sets as a student athlete, etc. kids like paul are the ones that should be taken care of by slu. he should be the example of a slu student athlete. instead he is kicked to the curb. thanks see ya.

You are joking right? "kicked to the curb"? Quit your high and mighty bull**** Roy.

[Majerus Magic]

While I understand the rules that you are talking about, we are talking about an extraordinary kid and situation. I do not believe that the NCAA would "be all over it" if Paul ended up on an academic scholarship and was able to participate in all regular drills.

Also, Paul could have graduated and started med school. Something must be keeping him around.

Have you talked to Paul about this situation?

[jjray]

05,

Don't get baited into Roy's crusade.

Roy is using Eckerle's situation to rehash old disagreements about Majerus and guys losing scholarships.

The Eckerle situation is completely different than the situations of Anthony Mitchell, Dustin Maguire, Adam Knollmeyer and Marcus Relphorde.

As a poster who bitched when those players lost their scholarships en masse, I agree with Nate that this situation is different. Eckerle's situation is closer to that of Daniel Lisch than Dustin Maguire. He is Luke Meyer's cousin and was coming to SLU with or without a scholarship. We had an open scholarship when he arrived on campus and RM gave it to him with the understanding that he may take the schollie back in later years to recruit other players.

[slu72]

You are joking right? "kicked to the curb"? Quit your high and mighty bull**** Roy.

You ain't gonna win this, '05. B'roy's mind is set when it comes to RM. While B'roy likes his basketball savvy, he views RM in the same light as a plantation overseer. PE had a very nice run at SLU, and hopefully, he plays again next year. RM loves this kid and will find a way to make sure PE is treated fairly. And as someone posted above, our previous HC preferred offering Horace Dixon, surely you remember him, "the best athlete on the team". and Obi Overweight full scholarships, but didn't think a kid like PE met his standards.

[slu72]

As a poster who bitched when those players lost their scholarships en masse, I agree with Nate that this situation is different. Eckerle's situation is closer to that of Daniel Lisch than Dustin Maguire. He is Luke Meyer's cousin and was coming to SLU with or without a scholarship. We had an open scholarship when he arrived on campus and RM gave it to him with the understanding that he may take the schollie back in later years to recruit other players.

When are people going to understand RM was hired to win... to make us relelvant... to fill seats at the new $80mm arena. If he'd kept UB's recruits, we'd have gone about 2-28 this year and the Chey would have a big For Sale sign in front of it.

[moytoy12]

the only three things that should be grounds for giving up a scholarship are 1. not performing in the classroom, 2. not being a good citizen, and 3. being a determent to the team by attitude or lack of effort.

What about not competing at a sufficient level on the court? Why should an athletic scholarship be different from an academic scholarship? The latter usually requires some base level of performance.

[moytoy12]

When are people going to understand RM was hired to win... to make us relelvant... to fill seats at the new $80mm arena. If he'd kept UB's recruits, we'd have gone about 2-28 this year and the Chey would have a big For Sale sign in front of it.

I don't agree with Roy on all of his critiques of RM, but there is a way to make us relevant and do it with a little more grace than how RM is doing it.

Also, you can appreciate the type of program that RM is building, but not appreciate every aspect of how he is doing it. RM loves KM as a ball player, but probably not every single aspect and criticizes KM for perceived shortcomings or missteps. Why can't we do the same with RM?

[MB73]

I don't agree with Roy on all of his critiques of RM, but there is a way to make us relevant and do it with a little more grace than how RM is doing it.

Also, you can appreciate the type of program that RM is building, but not appreciate every aspect of how he is doing it. RM loves KM as a ball player, but probably not every single aspect and criticizes KM for perceived shortcomings or missteps. Why can't we do the same with RM?

There IS a difference.

Majerus is a proven winner, national figure, who provides constructive feedback to all of his players, even the best, to ensure their continued improvement. It is an effective and well known tactic used in higher level athletics. Those who have real experience and exposure to higher level athletics know this...

Annonymous internet board people taking potshots at Majerus = complete different category entirely.

[cheeseman]

so he will pay for his room and board and books and a few thousand in tuition for three years our of his own pocket. eckerle is a program dream.

he deserves his athletic scholarship for at least two more years.

Roy, think about what you just wrote - Paul E can not keep his athletic schollie since now we would have to have 2 players leave the program if we sign another big man. That situation only makes the matter worse not better.

[b.hayes]

Oh, cool. Another discussion about how Roy thinks RM is a meanie. It's not like we've got a championship game tonight or anything.

[moytoy12]

There IS a difference.

Majerus is a proven winner, national figure, who provides constuctive feedback to all of his players, even the best, to ensure their continued improvement. It is an effective and well known tactic used in higher level athletics. Those who have real experience and exposure to higher level athletics know this...

Annonymous internet board people taking potshots at Majerus = complete different category entirely.

I'm not sure if you're talking about me, but I don't think I have taken any potshots at RM. If so, I can't recall them.

No doubt RM is a proven winner. It doesn't mean he is without faults or can't be criticized. I really like the overwhelming majority of what RM is doing at SLU, there are few things I'd wish he would do differently. That's all.

[Bizziken]

Okay....here is the deal...

Imagine for a moment that you are a Division I basketball player. After your freshman year, (one in which you rode the bench) the school fires your coach and hires a new one; a nationally prominent one. He sits you down after some evaluative practices and tells you that you likely will not play much under his system, and it would be IN YOUR BEST INTERESTS TO TRANSFER. I, for one, would be happy at the new coach's honesty, and look into my options elsewhere. Would I be disappointed? Sure, but that's life...

Oh and BTW-

Horace Dixon- full athletic scholarship at Southern University

Anthony Mitchell- full athletic scholarship at SIUE

Obi Ikeakor- athletic scholarship at New Orleans

Dustin Maguire- full athletic scholarship at Northern Kentucky (a top 10 D-2 school I might add)- he is starting, averaging 30 minutes a game, and leads the team at 15 points per game.

Looks like everybody that got 'forced' out is doing okay- no ruined lives or broken spirits....and I think Paul will be just fine too....

[NH]

There IS a difference.

Majerus is a proven winner, national figure, who provides constuctive feedback to all of his players, even the best, to ensure their continued improvement. It is an effective and well known tactic used in higher level athletics. Those who have real experience and exposure to higher level athletics know this...

Annonymous internet board people taking potshots at Majerus = complete different category entirely.

MB73,

First of all, I am sick and tired of in every one of your posts making note of people who participated in "higher level athletics." We all get it, you played some D1 sport or something like that. That may give you an interesting viewpoint on certain subjects, but I have never played college sports and I still know that "constructive feedback" is a "well-known tactic." Why? Because I'm not an idiot.

Secondly, You post basically asserts that Coach Rick Majerus is infallible or at least that he is immune from criticism. I think that is a silly point.

- Yes, Majerus is a proven winner. However, he has not been a winner since 2003 and there is no guarantee that he still has it. I personally think that he does and that we will be successful, but other people are allowed (yes, even if they didn't play a D1 sport) to criticize Coach Majerus, especially until he takes us to the NCAA tournament.

-Rick Majerus has many things going for him: He is a good strategist, good scouter, good talent evaluator. But he also has some flaws (Jackass (or at least sometimes displaying that to the media and fans,maybe even recruits), inability to answer a question without bringing up Andre Miller and Mormon missions, health, and others. People have the right to raise complaints about any and all of those things. Especially for a coach making so much money.

[slu72]

I'm not sure if you're talking about me, but I don't think I have taken any potshots at RM. If so, I can't recall them.

No doubt RM is a proven winner. It doesn't mean he is without faults or can't be criticized. I really like the overwhelming majority of what RM is doing at SLU, there are few things I'd wish he would do differently. That's all.

Moy, I think 99.9% of the posters agree w/ you. He's got warts, but so does everyone and HC's of major college sports seem to have more than their fair share. But some on here continually bring up the "unfairness" of his spring massacre after the '07-08 season. Fr. B, or whomever, signs his paychecks didn't bring him here to coach T-ball. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't nice, but think of the type of season we would have just come off had the moves not been taken.

[b.hayes]

Funny how it seems to be a bigger issue for some posters on here than it is for the KID ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY IT.

[slufanskip]

Funny how it seems to be a bigger issue for some posters on here than it is for the KID ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY IT.

thank you.

[NH]

Bizziken,

Imagine this...

You're the best kid in your high school, maybe the best kid in your city. All sorts of colleges are knocking on your door. All the schools really want you to go there, but this is a big deal for you. You got uncles telling you to go here, coaches there, your mom wants you to stay home, etc. But, on coach really seals the deal, he says you will be a big part of that school's revival to the national scene. The coach is nice, charismatic and he convinces you that you are a vital cog to the team. After weeks of striggling with the most important decision of your life you finally buy into what this coach has been selling.

You show up on campus and you like it a lot, you have friends, your teammates and professors are nice. The only down side is that you have some fat guy yelling at you to run, but that will clear up once games start.

You bust your butt on and off the court. You do well in school and you get some (not a whole lot though) playing time. The team has a solid year and things are looking promising on the horizon.

Then at the end of the year, your coach calls you in to your office and says they need your scholarship for a kid they want to bring. He says he appreciates your effort and will help you find a school suitable for your skills.

You transfer to a lower-level school and play out your career.

That is the situation some people are afraid of happening and think is wrong. I was OK with the one you mentioned, but I don't think I am OK with this one.

[billiken_roy]

What about not competing at a sufficient level on the court? Why should an athletic scholarship be different from an academic scholarship? The latter usually requires some base level of performance.

the school offered the student athlete a scholarship. if the school made a mistake judging the actual talent then the school should live with it. now as i said above, if the student athlete didnt give an effort or is a cancer to the team with attitude and actions not beholden to the teams well being, then that is a different story. i hardly think that paul eckerle is that example though.

we are talking about one slot for two years. if the program cant survive because a lesser talented player is holding that particular spot for that two additional years we are in far more trouble than we all believe.

and as talent and contribution goes, imo the truth is that paul eckerle was a more dependable performer than a couple of players on the team this year.

[billikenbilly]

and if i was paul i would. full time since it would now be on my nickel.

So, should Majerus have simply not offered him a scholly at all? If you were Paul, would you feel unfairly treated if a Division 1 coach from the school you planned to attend (without a scholly and without opportunity to play ball) offered you a scholly to play for a few years and told you up front that you would not get the deal all the way through? If so, you are a complete pansy and I wouldn't want you on the team anyways.

[NH]

the school offered the student athlete a scholarship. if the school made a mistake judging the actual talent then the school should live with it. now as i said above, if the student athlete didnt give an effort or is a cancer to the team with attitude and actions not beholden to the teams well being, then that is a different story. i hardly think that paul eckerle is that example though.

we are talking about one slot for two years. if the program cant survive because a lesser talented player is holding that particular spot for that two additional years we are in far more trouble than we all believe.

and as talent and contribution goes, imo the truth is that paul eckerle was a more dependable performer than a couple of players on the team this year.

Roy, I usually agree with you one this issue, but not with Paul. Paul knew what he was getting into, a one year scholarship. He has had the scholarship for three years and has done a great job with the team. Rick would have never offered the scholarship if it had to be a four-year promise. If the coaching staff followed your logic, Paul would have never had a scholarship and I fail to see how that would be better.

[jjray]

When are people going to understand RM was hired to win... to make us relelvant... to fill seats at the new $80mm arena. If he'd kept UB's recruits, we'd have gone about 2-28 this year and the Chey would have a big For Sale sign in front of it.

When are people going to understand that there is no need to condescend when making a post on a message board? Argue the facts and let them speak for themselves. Don't talk down as if posting from an exalted position of self-presumed knowledge. It gets old.

[billiken_roy]

Oh, cool. Another discussion about how Roy thinks RM is a meanie. It's not like we've got a championship game tonight or anything.

i didnt start the discussion. and sorry if i think doing the right thing per our student athletes is more important than the first game of the cbi championship series.