kevinfootes Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Both Burwell and Miklasz keep harping on the notion that the Rams are better off losing the last 3 games to jockey for draft position. I can see the advantages of this premise, but IMO this team has to learn how to win at some point. I don't believe that only happens in minicamps, training camps, or exhibition games. IMO, you have to beat up on guys wearing a different colored uniform before this happens. Having the #1 pick would be great, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the younger guys gain confidence and the coaching staff gain credibility. Suh looks to be an outstanding player, but this bunch has a lot of holes to fill. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Both Burwell and Miklasz keep harping on the notion that the Rams are better off losing the last 3 games to jockey for draft position. I can see the advantages of this premise, but IMO this team has to learn how to win at some point. I don't believe that only happens in minicamps, training camps, or exhibition games. IMO, you have to beat up on guys wearing a different colored uniform before this happens. Having the #1 pick would be great, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the younger guys gain confidence and the coaching staff gain credibility. Suh looks to be an outstanding player, but this bunch has a lot of holes to fill. Any thoughts? As a Dolfan I understand your dilemna. We went through this a few years back and I was rooting for wins. You are right about a team knowing what it feels like to win games and that is bigger than one player. Last year in the preseason the Fins went 4-0. Most people would say that doesnt mean anything but my old Boca buddies and I thought differently. Look what happened that season, the team felt like they could actually win games. Suh is great and should be the first pick. The Rams need shake up in the front office which is one of the worst in football. My hope is the team doesnt leave STL, that would be devastating. We would never see football here again so tell them to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 As a Dolfan I understand your dilemna. We went through this a few years back and I was rooting for wins. You are right about a team knowing what it feels like to win games and that is bigger than one player. Last year in the preseason the Fins went 4-0. Most people would say that doesnt mean anything but my old Boca buddies and I thought differently. Look what happened that season, the team felt like they could actually win games. Suh is great and should be the first pick. The Rams need shake up in the front office which is one of the worst in football. My hope is the team doesnt leave STL, that would be devastating. We would never see football here again so tell them to figure it out. You mean like bringing in a new GM, Coaching staff, and scouting and development teams? Sounds eerily similar to what happened over the last 18 months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 You mean like bringing in a new GM, Coaching staff, and scouting and development teams? Sounds eerily similar to what happened over the last 18 months... Fire Spags... we need him back in NY! Hell, we'll give you our first rd draft choice for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Both Burwell and Miklasz keep harping on the notion that the Rams are better off losing the last 3 games to jockey for draft position. I can see the advantages of this premise, but IMO this team has to learn how to win at some point. I don't believe that only happens in minicamps, training camps, or exhibition games. IMO, you have to beat up on guys wearing a different colored uniform before this happens. Having the #1 pick would be great, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the younger guys gain confidence and the coaching staff gain credibility. Suh looks to be an outstanding player, but this bunch has a lot of holes to fill. Any thoughts? just lose baby. The last 2 games aren't going to change the mentality. Great players will. Suh is that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 the mentality of the rams players was a loser from day one. that is the problem. the previous coach obviously didnt draft heart, soul, guts, determination and passion. there is more to football than just running jumping and how much you weigh. this team is a bunch of losers that couldnt care less. proof is the constant let downs, give ups and mistakes. they need to turn over probably 95% of the roster but that isnt easy to do overnight. even if you cut em all, there is a reason the players available arent on a team already. they suck as well. it is just going to take time through the draft and shrewd roster management. as to the current coaching staff, i will say after watching the worst skill set receivers in history, what the hell was he thinking letting holt leave? couple that with his unfounded devotion to the likes of incognito and bulger who are the definitions of losers imo, doesnt give me a lot of hope he has a vision either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 the mentality of the rams players was a loser from day one. that is the problem. Actually, I think that this team has continually played hard for Spags this year. The entire source of the problem is lack of talent. The Rams have no backup running back, the worst set of receivers in the league, no QB, and talent gaps all over the defense. They are still probably two years away from filling the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I gotta disagree, Roy. The team's problem isn't a lack of heart, it's a lack of talent. It was clear at the end of last season that massive changes were needed at Rams Park. The franchise was devastated by years of horrible drafts and awful free agent signings. As Cheesy mentioned, we now have a new GM and new coach, and the new regime basically went "nuclear" on the roster, which was the right thing to do. Devaney's first draft as GM has yielded some players that the Rams can build on for the future - Smith, Laurinaitis, Dorrell Scott and Bradley Fletcher all look like they will play roles in the team's long-term plans. With regards to Devaney's free agent signings, Jason Brown was a great pickup and James Butler is a capable safety. Since the team had very little cap room, it wasn't able to make more of a splash in the free agent market, but will be able to next year, when all of the "dead money" from the likes of guys like Drew Bennett will no longer figure into the salary cap situation, and the ridiculously overpaid Marc Bulger can be cut loose with a minimal hit to the cap. It's critical that the Rams draft well in the upcoming draft. Suh would be a great pickup, and there should be some quality quarterbacks available in the second round. We still have glaring needs at OLB and need a playmaking receiver (or two), a tight end, an offensive tackle, a backup running back and depth at other positions. Hopefully a strong draft and smart free agent signings will help bring the Rams back to at least respectability in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 As a Dolfan I understand your dilemna. We went through this a few years back and I was rooting for wins. You are right about a team knowing what it feels like to win games and that is bigger than one player. Last year in the preseason the Fins went 4-0. Most people would say that doesnt mean anything but my old Boca buddies and I thought differently. Look what happened that season, the team felt like they could actually win games. Suh is great and should be the first pick. The Rams need shake up in the front office which is one of the worst in football. My hope is the team doesnt leave STL, that would be devastating. We would never see football here again so tell them to figure it out. A fellow Phin fan! I agree with your thoughts, it's something the team has to learn to do, and feel as though they have the confidence it will happen. However, they did go 1-15 and still turn it around the next year. If the Rams decide to go the route of Suh, and not a QB, they'll need the #1 to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 A fellow Phin fan! I agree with your thoughts, it's something the team has to learn to do, and feel as though they have the confidence it will happen. However, they did go 1-15 and still turn it around the next year. If the Rams decide to go the route of Suh, and not a QB, they'll need the #1 to get him. Yesterday was a tough one to swallow. They are still not out of it but need a lot of help. I might be heading down for the Pitt game. Back to the Rams, they could trade the pick because I am sure a lot of teams want Suh. Start with the trenches and build the team that way. Grab a QB in the 2nd or 3nd. WRs and RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL, good schemes and blocking. Then blow the roof off the dome too make it a fun place to watch games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yesterday was a tough one to swallow. They are still not out of it but need a lot of help. I might be heading down for the Pitt game. Back to the Rams, they could trade the pick because I am sure a lot of teams want Suh. Start with the trenches and build the team that way. Grab a QB in the 2nd or 3nd. WRs and RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL, good schemes and blocking. Then blow the roof off the dome too make it a fun place to watch games. Wouldn't a good way to "start with the trenches" be to draft one of the most dominating d-linemen to play college football in years, rather than trading down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wouldn't a good way to "start with the trenches" be to draft one of the most dominating d-linemen to play college football in years, rather than trading down? Sorry, those were two different thoughts. Yes draft Suh or trade down and try to solidfy both lines in the draft. Just stay away from the skilled position early in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sorry, those were two different thoughts. Yes draft Suh or trade down and try to solidfy both lines in the draft. Just stay away from the skilled position early in the draft.Agreed. It's a shame that the area where we need the most help is on offense and all the best players in this year's draft crop are defensive players (with the exception of Okung, but I don't think we need another OT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Agreed. It's a shame that the area where we need the most help is on offense and all the best players in this year's draft crop are defensive players (with the exception of Okung, but I don't think we need another OT). I'm thinking that Barron will be toast after this season. Maybe they bring him back if he can be signed on the cheap, but otherwise, he's not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 the mentality of the rams players was a loser from day one. that is the problem. the previous coach obviously didnt draft heart, soul, guts, determination and passion. there is more to football than just running jumping and how much you weigh. this team is a bunch of losers that couldnt care less. proof is the constant let downs, give ups and mistakes. they need to turn over probably 95% of the roster but that isnt easy to do overnight. even if you cut em all, there is a reason the players available arent on a team already. they suck as well. it is just going to take time through the draft and shrewd roster management. as to the current coaching staff, i will say after watching the worst skill set receivers in history, what the hell was he thinking letting holt leave? couple that with his unfounded devotion to the likes of incognito and bulger who are the definitions of losers imo, doesnt give me a lot of hope he has a vision either. roy, if you pay attention to the cap situation, there is no way that the Rams could have gotten rid of Bulger before the season without taking a huge cap hit. Plus, they DID start Boller for a couple of games. The results weren't any better. What do you mean by "unfounded devotion"? Regarding Bulger, they've been no different than Martz, Vitt, Linehan, and Haslett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlee Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The only thing that can help the Rams is for the Ram fans to begin praying to St. Jude, the Patron Saint of miracles and hopeless causes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yesterday was a tough one to swallow. They are still not out of it but need a lot of help. I might be heading down for the Pitt game. Yeah, I broke down and moved to DirecTv so I could watch the Phins on the NFL package. I was proud of how they came back from 18 points down on the road to send it to OT. I thought for sure we were going to win once we won the toss, but it was not to be. I think most Phin fans have been eyeing next year as the year we take the next step in contention. I think there is still a chance if we win out, and Denver loses, creating that however many way tie... Rams need to decide if they think Clausen is a franchise QB or not. If they think he is, they really need to take him. If they don't they should take Suh. The problem is, Suh isn't a sure thing to me, because he seems to dominate on strength alone. What happens when NFL linemen are as strong, or nearly as strong? I know he uses his hands very well, but so did Glenn Dorsey. While I think Suh will be better than Dorsey, DT is such a hard position to project to the NFL (as if QB isn't as well). It really has to be tough to be a Rams fan right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 If you include Tye Hill, Witherspoon, Tiaisamoa, a few others, plus 3 OL injured or cut (Cogs), top 2 QB's injured, DT Carriker inj, 2 of top 4 WR's out most of yr, 2 LB's out, a few CB's out, Rams are starting 8 or 9 guys of 22 that would be on our starting roster first week of season. Next yr Rams can spend about $ 25 million that we cannot use this yr for "dead salaries" we a paying for. People who criticize Spags are out of line, he has them playing hard, just no talent. It is a tryout for next yr, injured players back, $ 25 M to spend on free agents, and the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 the mentality of the rams players was a loser from day one. that is the problem. the previous coach obviously didnt draft heart, soul, guts, determination and passion. there is more to football than just running jumping and how much you weigh. this team is a bunch of losers that couldnt care less. proof is the constant let downs, give ups and mistakes. they need to turn over probably 95% of the roster but that isnt easy to do overnight. even if you cut em all, there is a reason the players available arent on a team already. they suck as well. it is just going to take time through the draft and shrewd roster management. as to the current coaching staff, i will say after watching the worst skill set receivers in history, what the hell was he thinking letting holt leave? couple that with his unfounded devotion to the likes of incognito and bulger who are the definitions of losers imo, doesnt give me a lot of hope he has a vision either. The previous coach didn't draft anybody because he didn't have that power to decide who was and was not drafted. The Rams futility stems from many years of poor drafting and poor free agent signings. This was in part caused by the decision-makers not properly putting in place a proper GM, and player personnel people, let alone coach. Releasing high priced, past their prime dead weight is a good thing. In one year, the team has gotten considerably younger, much better under the salary cap. The first year of free agency saw some good signings, far better than the previous many. The first draft was so so with some solid players, but nothing great. This isn't going to get done in a year. It will take several years. The Rams went a long time having a salary cap non-football guy in charge of player personnel decisions because he was a long time several decade friend of the team President and owner. That's a joke. And lastly, as Herm likes to say, "You play to win the game." You always play to win the game. The Rams have played hard most of this season...not all...but most. They just don't have very many good players. And they will need to evaluate their coordinators moving forward. We'll see what the current GM, coach, President, personnel director etc...can do with a few years of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yeah, I broke down and moved to DirecTv so I could watch the Phins on the NFL package. I was proud of how they came back from 18 points down on the road to send it to OT. I thought for sure we were going to win once we won the toss, but it was not to be. I think most Phin fans have been eyeing next year as the year we take the next step in contention. I think there is still a chance if we win out, and Denver loses, creating that however many way tie... Rams need to decide if they think Clausen is a franchise QB or not. If they think he is, they really need to take him. If they don't they should take Suh. The problem is, Suh isn't a sure thing to me, because he seems to dominate on strength alone. What happens when NFL linemen are as strong, or nearly as strong? I know he uses his hands very well, but so did Glenn Dorsey. While I think Suh will be better than Dorsey, DT is such a hard position to project to the NFL (as if QB isn't as well). It really has to be tough to be a Rams fan right now. Yeah, but Dorsey also entered into a really bad situation. He's a 4-3 tackle and they switched to 3-4 this year so he's playing end (something he's not really suited to). Plus, if there's anyone in this league that can maximize the talents along the d-line, I believe it's Spagnuolo. The results aren't there yet with Long, but I think they will be- and it's hard to argue with what he did with Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yeah, but Dorsey also entered into a really bad situation. He's a 4-3 tackle and they switched to 3-4 this year so he's playing end (something he's not really suited to). Plus, if there's anyone in this league that can maximize the talents along the d-line, I believe it's Spagnuolo. The results aren't there yet with Long, but I think they will be- and it's hard to argue with what he did with Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck. I'm interested to see if he can do anything with Adam Carriker. I'd like to see Spags move him back to DE, which he played in college. Long, Ryan/Scott, Suh and Carriker might give us a pretty good defensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yeah, I broke down and moved to DirecTv so I could watch the Phins on the NFL package. I was proud of how they came back from 18 points down on the road to send it to OT. I thought for sure we were going to win once we won the toss, but it was not to be. I think most Phin fans have been eyeing next year as the year we take the next step in contention. I think there is still a chance if we win out, and Denver loses, creating that however many way tie... We had season tickets up till the time I moved to STL in 97. This is the first year the wife made me give up the package, I spend a lot of Sundays at church then Sybergs. I was in that boat, once we won the toss we had the game. Oh well. That call on Camarillo was bs and was the strip by Taylor. With that said, I think if Den and Tenn lose one and we win out we are in. The strenght of victory is stupid as a tie breaker but we will see. I said 8-8 would be a good year. Next year should be there year but I love this team now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yeah, but Dorsey also entered into a really bad situation. He's a 4-3 tackle and they switched to 3-4 this year so he's playing end (something he's not really suited to). Plus, if there's anyone in this league that can maximize the talents along the d-line, I believe it's Spagnuolo. The results aren't there yet with Long, but I think they will be- and it's hard to argue with what he did with Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck. You're right, but he did play 4-3 DT the year before and fared worse than he has this year. Much of that can attributed to the natural development a defensive lineman usually takes to the NFL, but if you're that high of a pick, you want the guy to be able to come in and make positive contributions right away IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearvision Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 We had season tickets up till the time I moved to STL in 97. This is the first year the wife made me give up the package, I spend a lot of Sundays at church then Sybergs. I was in that boat, once we won the toss we had the game. Oh well. That call on Camarillo was bs and was the strip by Taylor. With that said, I think if Den and Tenn lose one and we win out we are in. The strenght of victory is stupid as a tie breaker but we will see. I said 8-8 would be a good year. Next year should be there year but I love this team now. Agreed. The wife has been good enough to agree to the 9:45 service for us, so that I don't have to miss any games...she really is pretty awesome about my sports obsession, especially for someone who doesn't understand why I like sports at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Agreed. The wife has been good enough to agree to the 9:45 service for us, so that I don't have to miss any games...she really is pretty awesome about my sports obsession, especially for someone who doesn't understand why I like sports at all. I hear ya on that. Not sure how things will change with our first kid on the way but we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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