Senior Night Rundown

[billiken_roy]

you have to give respect (more than hollow words for a minute at the end of the ceremony) to get it in return.

while it may have looked bad on the liddell's part, imo, it demonstrates what must have been a deep hurt for the way they felt their son was treated by rickma for these two difficult years.

considering where tommie and kevin were two years ago compared to what we saw this and last year, anyone that isnt puzzled by the whole picture must have their heads somewhere else.

[satrap]

considering where tommie and kevin were two years ago compared to what we saw this and last year, anyone that isnt puzzled by the whole picture must have their heads somewhere else.

I have thought about this often. Who can know, other than the two of them and, possibly, their dads?

In retrospect, I think the careers of these two were sacrificed at the alter of the big-name coaching change- the one that hasn't resulted in a whit of measurable improvement to this point- which is really sad. It couldn't have been predicted, but that's the way it turned out.

[billikendave]

I have thought about this often. Who can know, other than the two of them and, possibly, their dads?

In retrospect, I think the careers of these two were sacrificed at the alter of the big-name coaching change- the one that hasn't resulted in a whit of measurable improvement to this point- which is really sad. It couldn't have been predicted, but that's the way it turned out.

Their careers were "sacrificed" when Soderberg couldn't bring in solid recruiting classes after KL and TL.

[bleedbluegary1]

I do not blame the coaching change for the lack of success for Tommie and Kevin. I recall Highmark and Clagget going through a coaching change they did just fine.

I would like to know when the honeymoon ends for coach. I think with the last of Soderbergs recruits leaving he can finally do what he wants to do.

The question I would like to ask is Tommie scores 4 points last night. Somethings wrong there. I would like to know why Kevin gets a free pass, his play has been very erratic. In the last two games he has missed 5 three point shots within the final 1:15 of the last 2 games 3 against Duquesne and two last night. As far as leadership goes that is where I have the problem how many times did they get in one of their teammates faces when they would make mistakes. To blow a 14 point lead at home is unacceptable on senior night but at the same time no senior seemed to want to take over.

[Band Legend]

you have to give respect (more than hollow words for a minute at the end of the ceremony) to get it in return.

while it may have looked bad on the liddell's part, imo, it demonstrates what must have been a deep hurt for the way they felt their son was treated by rickma for these two difficult years.

considering where tommie and kevin were two years ago compared to what we saw this and last year, anyone that isnt puzzled by the whole picture must have their heads somewhere else.

What a load of bunk! Boo Hoo, do you want us to cry for these guys? No one made Tommy stay; coaching changes and player transfers happen every year in the NCAA. The fact that Tommy has looked good and played with purpose in some games makes the circumstances of last night's game totally inexplicable, because in the second half he looked like he had never played basketball before in his life. Deep hurt my butt; grow a pair and have some self respect. How does Majerus get anyone to play for him if he is such a jackass? Kwamain Mitchell sure looks like he'll be able to thrive and so do the other freshmen. We have five recruits coning in who obviously were sold on the program. Maybe they want to be challenged. As much as I appreciate Tommy and Kevin and have enjoyed watching them play, I think it's time for the Billikens to move past the old construct of the program, and the last vestiges will be gone at the end of this year. Hopefully after several more games. Then maybe BRoy can move on as well.

[MB73]

Tough situation, too bad it worked out this way with TL and KL.

For you non athletes, let me point out that fresh-soph year, you are gung ho, 100% team-team-team, everything is possible!

BUT when you are a senior, you realize you are not going to make it to the pros, the team is not going to make it to the NCAA's, etc, etc.

And "what am I gonna do when I graduate?" Work for 40 yrs?

Then with TL and KL there is a new sheriff, RM, I think a great coach but maybe not the best for a situation like this...

Told the program will be rebuilt, it will "take several years".

You are the seniors, and there are 7 freshmen who are "the future"

Tough to deal with, even for two fine players like TL and KL.

So quit the name calling and finger pointing.

I wish TL played better and KL shot better, but that is what has happened. Bad situation.

[bleedbluegary1]

Sports prepare you for life. You learn how to adjust and make it better. Just like in an actual job do you honestly think you are going to have to have the same boss your entire career no when a new boss comes in you learn his ways and how he likes things and if you don't you won't be there long. Thats how the world works if these guys had played for Bob Knight they would have been in a fetal position in the corner.

[billikendave]

Remember that KL and TL's frosh and soph years, they had an all conference center in Ian. They didn't have that last year. this year you have freshmen (willie, conklin, etc) who had ups and downs. The team excelled this year when Barry had big games ...

[KC Billikens Fan]

you have to give respect (more than hollow words for a minute at the end of the ceremony) to get it in return.

while it may have looked bad on the liddell's part, imo, it demonstrates what must have been a deep hurt for the way they felt their son was treated by rickma for these two difficult years.

considering where tommie and kevin were two years ago compared to what we saw this and last year, anyone that isnt puzzled by the whole picture must have their heads somewhere else.

I'll agree with you to a degree. The SI article with the "meddlesome father" paragraph probably did cause great hurt to Liddell and his family. Though Majerus obviously didn't write the article, he should have shown more discretion in the interview process.

But, I also strongly disagree with you on being "puzzled" by what has happened in the careers of Liddell and Lisch. Liddell and Lisch, particularly Liddell, have been vastly over-rated since Day 1.

They aren't great players - good players YES, great NO - AND their suppporting cast for much of their 4 years has clearly not been good, which is why they never played in the postseason. I think fans expected too much out of Tommie and he's just not a great, 'take the game over' type player. He has some obvious strengths, but he has obvious weaknesses too. He is a guard with more turnovers than assists for his career (AND THAT WAS THE CASE BEFORE MAJERUS TOOK OVER AS WELL). Liddell was a victim of inflated expectations.

As for Lisch, although overall a better player than Liddell, he is not a GREAT player either. I think Lisch could have thrived in a system like Carbondale's Justin Dentmon is thriving for UW. Dentmon may be 1st-team all-Pac 10 this year, and all he is asked to do is hit 3s and free throws, dish the ball to Brockman and play defense. I think Lisch could have found a similar niche on a very good team. But Lisch had no Brockmans, Isiah Thomas on his team at SLU, and thus, he was the main focus of the oppositon's game plan, and often struggled.

As for the future of SLU basketball, I'm excited about it. Majerus is a proven winner, and has a winner in Mitchell at point guard and Reed at power forward, and by most accounts, a very solid recruiting class coming in next year. I like what he has done so far. They are 2 years away from being a really good team. While last night might have been tough, it was the end (well Wednesday or Thursday will likely be the end) of an era, not just the Liddell/Lisch era, I'm talking about a 10-year era since Highmark and Claggett graduated, and I'm glad to close the book on it.

[GOSLU68]

I'll agree with you to a degree. The SI article with the "meddlesome father" paragraph probably did cause great hurt to Liddell and his family. Though Majerus obviously didn't write the article, he should have shown more discretion in the interview process.

But, I also strongly disagree with you on being "puzzled" by what has happened in the careers of Liddell and Lisch. Liddell and Lisch, particularly Liddell, have been vastly over-rated since Day 1.

what game were you all watching?

From where I sat with the seniors facing us and giving their impromptu speeches after a hard fought loss about 60 percent of the fans stayed. In past

these things have been at half time and in some cases before the game. The booked too many events to celebrate senior night and should have

had the team players come out with the band and dance team.

The book on us all year has been hack away because TL will quit if hit and KL will get hurt. Last night KM, WR, KL all missed minutes and were questionable to a point that RM took a technical because the refs were not keeping it safe on the floor-and what was that there were so many spills

and slips-did they have to redo the floor for the game because of another event?

KL had a bad ankle, KM had a bad ankle and a bad arm from someone rolling on him. WR went down either air knocked out of him or groin pull. TL

played like he had a upper thigh problem little rebounding and no jump shooting-how Kevin made even one three was a mystery he left the floor at one point right after half to either get rebandaged or some other medical help.

these guys were outmanned and a good part of the problem was either KM can't find someone to pass to or he just doesn't think that the other 4 players on the court are necessary. Time after time he came down and waited for people to get positioned so he could keep the ball. No wonder

Conklin, Thompson, and Reed hardly get guarded KM doesn't work the ball into them.

Barry was surprisingly the most emotional of the seniors; but I have to say that the Lisch family certainly was into senior night. I don't think RM

will ever win an award for extemporaneous speaking but he did try to say something nice about each player. Even if they were not his guys they

had just gone to war and were outmanned and he was the first hand witness. For four years we have had a team that was streaky and in the first

half we absolutely took it to LaSalle and in the second we were on the floor too much.

As for the commenting about guys coming into the season out of shape; I really think it is a case of lifting weights in the summer and running it off in season. The same thing could be said for Conklin, Thompson, BE, IL. KL all are substantially thinner now than 4 months ago.

We were a 17-13 team; we played like it last night. I am dissappointed but not surprised I forecast 18-12 before game one and I would like to see us win two more and I think we are capable of it if the troops recover from last night's hard fought battle.

[KC Billikens Fan]

what game were you all watching?

I was not at the game. My comments were not made about this specific game. They were comments about careers.

[satrap]

I think it's time for the Billikens to move past the old construct of the program, and the last vestiges will be gone at the end of this year. Hopefully after several more games. Then maybe BRoy can move on as well.

I hear this alot, but never understand what it means. Players are players, years are years, and new regimes don't have novel answers: the last vestiges are same as the new vestiges, only more experienced. Next year might be rought. Very rough.

[GoBills]

Their careers were "sacrificed" when Soderberg couldn't bring in solid recruiting classes after KL and TL.

You get it. The program was heading absolutely nowhere after Kevin and Tommie's sophomore year. Coach Soderberg touted that season (KL and TL's 2nd) as a possible breakthrough before the season. It didn't happen. Not even the NIT. So Ian was graduating and coach Soderberg did not have a viable replacement. More damning was that Soderberg STILL did not have a legit point guard or power forward to play alongside TL and KL. With a new arena and the horizon and enthusiasm waning, something needed to be done. My only question is why did it take SLU until about midway through the spring signing period to make the change? Most changes happen right after the season or shortly thereafter. If they would have made the change then, it would have given Majerus time to bring in a few recruits in the spring.

[kshoe]

I would like to know when the honeymoon ends for coach. I think with the last of Soderbergs recruits leaving he can finally do what he wants to do.

Its fairly simple. Nobody is going to expect an NCAA quality team next year but we should expect significant contributions from the freshmen and continued improvement from this year's freshman class. The honeymoon ends in two years if RM can't get those guys to the NCAA tourney. With Mitchell and Co as juniors we should be dancing (similar to the Clagg/highmark/waldman breakout season). Anything short of the NCAA in 2 years and the honeymoon is most certainly over.

[Band Legend]

I hear this alot, but never understand what it means. Players are players, years are years, and new regimes don't have novel answers: the last vestiges are same as the new vestiges, only more experienced. Next year might be rought. Very rough.

[/

It also might be very good. Rough or not, I'm sure it will be exciting. I'm hoping that the new construct of Billiken basketball is that we bring in lots and lots of talented players every year, and keep recruiting over the players we have, not get two good players and never recruit anyone to make them better. Brad had two full years to recruit anyone to help these guys and he didn't do it. Tommie and Kevin were not good enough to do it all by themselves.

[thetorch]

I taped the senior festivities. I made a comment about it to my buddies when it took place and I rewatched to make sure I had seen it right. Tommie did not shake hands with any of the coaching staff and neither did his parents.

I look at it like this. Barry was the most emotional of three. Yet he had the least time invested in the program and was really the most criticized publicly of the three by Majerus. Barry was the only one of the three that mentioned losing the game. I'm sorry as competitors that comes first and foremost.

I'm thinking Majerus was right. I give all the credit in the world to Liddell and Lisch. You can't argue with the stats they have put up. But they don't have a postseason game to their credit. There are a lot of factors that come into play but I think Majerus was right when he said these are guys you go camping with, not guys you win with on the basketball court.

I still think this season was a success. The old regime is over officially now. We live and die with Majerus. I am very happy with that.

[Bishop]

Good attendance especially by the students. Out in force even during spring break.

Now for the bad news, the game and aftermath.

Got off to a great start. Mitchell was on fire from outside and driving the lane and scoring at will. Eberhart came out strong to start along with Reed. Lisch then got fouls and got hurt the game started to unravel but Mitchell still kept us in the lead. Liddell on senior night was nowhere to be seen.

Mitchell got banged up hard and so did Lisch. Lisch wasn't all together till the game was out of hand. Mitchell couldn't do it all himself. He did score nearly half our points though. Incredible game considering how much he got clobbered. Mitchell and a stronger Willie Reed will take us to great heights. Liddell at least in the first half made a couple good passes early on. Second half he stood and watched on both ends of the floor.

One telling part of the game for me...

Not only did KM play his heart out, but he was CLEARLY the vocal leader on the floor. On a night when two of the most celebrated seniors in SLU history and two players considered team leaders for years were playing their last game, I thought it was very interesting to see KM willing people to perform better and to complete their assignments - including Keving and Tommie. On numerous occasions he brought players together and got in their faces for a poor pass, poor shot selection or a lack of effort on d. KL and TL were wonderful players during their time here but last night KM proved he is ready and willing to take this team over as his own. You could get the feeling that Kevin and Tommie would take over a game and carry the team on their backs to a win over the last few years but with KM you not only get the feeling that KM will carry you to a victory but he will force those around him to raise their games as well. That is the difference between someone who has the potential to be a great player and two players who were very good but not GREAT. The ability to make those around them that much better. KL and TL and even Barry will be missed but this team is heading in the right direction.

[Soderball]

One telling part of the game for me...

Not only did KM play his heart out, but he was CLEARLY the vocal leader on the floor. On a night when two of the most celebrated seniors in SLU history and two players considered team leaders for years were playing their last game, I thought it was very interesting to see KM willing people to perform better and to complete their assignments - including Keving and Tommie. On numerous occasions he brought players together and got in their faces for a poor pass, poor shot selection or a lack of effort on d. KL and TL were wonderful players during their time here but last night KM proved he is ready and willing to take this team over as his own. You could get the feeling that Kevin and Tommie would take over a game and carry the team on their backs to a win over the last few years but with KM you not only get the feeling that KM will carry you to a victory but he will force those around him to raise their games as well. That is the difference between someone who has the potential to be a great player and two players who were very good but not GREAT. The ability to make those around them that much better. KL and TL and even Barry will be missed but this team is heading in the right direction.

Kwamain Mitchell is playing like a senior.

He's a fantastic point guard already, only going to get better.

And Majerus is bringing in the guys to make this a full team. As the Billiken says: "Grin and Begin to Win"

[Cowboy]

Kwamain Mitchell is playing like a senior.

He's a fantastic point guard already, only going to get better.

And Majerus is bringing in the guys to make this a full team. As the Billiken says: "Grin and Begin to Win"

-KM certainly looks to have what it takes to be a very special player, let's keep him healthy as the way he throws his body around is similar to KL and could take its toll

-i do wonder if KL ever really recovered from the back issue and he was certainly hobbling around Sat night with a leg issue, he gave his all

[slufanskip]

One telling part of the game for me...

Not only did KM play his heart out, but he was CLEARLY the vocal leader on the floor. On a night when two of the most celebrated seniors in SLU history and two players considered team leaders for years were playing their last game, I thought it was very interesting to see KM willing people to perform better and to complete their assignments - including Keving and Tommie. On numerous occasions he brought players together and got in their faces for a poor pass, poor shot selection or a lack of effort on d. KL and TL were wonderful players during their time here but last night KM proved he is ready and willing to take this team over as his own. You could get the feeling that Kevin and Tommie would take over a game and carry the team on their backs to a win over the last few years but with KM you not only get the feeling that KM will carry you to a victory but he will force those around him to raise their games as well. That is the difference between someone who has the potential to be a great player and two players who were very good but not GREAT. The ability to make those around them that much better. KL and TL and even Barry will be missed but this team is heading in the right direction.

I noticed that also. KM is willing to step up both with his play and vocally. There were a few times he had to direct players on the floor (including the Sr's.) I also saw him get on players after poor plays and you could just tell he was pushing them to play better. Maybe somehow Tommie and Kevin feel that they are on the way out and this is KM's team and have subconciously defered that role to him.

Part of me feels bad for KL and TL. They have played well their entire careers. Whatever we think of Tommie's aggressiveness, I don't for a moment think that he has given anything but his best. Has he had bad games ... of course, but he's also had great ones. The same thing goes for Kevin, imo he is ultra competitive, many times trying to do more than he's capable of. He wasn't out of shape this year, he's always given his all, and like Tommie, sometimes with great results and sometimes not.

Regardless of the results of this season or any other. I have loved watching them both play, through the ups and the downs. I wish they both had one more year .... I appreciate them both (And Barry) and am thankfull for the memories they have given me during their careers.

We had 4 years to talk about their ups and downs, their good play and bad. For me, it's now time to just appreciate what they've brought to us as fans over their careers, regardless of what happens in the tourney.

[ACE]

Kwamain Mitchell is playing like a senior.

He's a fantastic point guard already, only going to get better.

And Majerus is bringing in the guys to make this a full team. As the Billiken says: "Grin and Begin to Win"

Mitchell will be the leader next year from day 1, which is what you want out of your point guard. I think he could vie for all conference honors.