drkelsey55 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 " I can agree with your point about KL's benching. That tactic works on some players, but KL certainly is the type of player that doesn't need something like that to push him. Also, your point about him pushing it and forcing things seems spot on" Thats why I think he should start on the bench and come in after the first minute or so, maybe it would help him to relax. He wouldn't feel like he has to do it all if he is not starting. Wouldn't hurt to try and see if it would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Got it- I misunderstood. He's certainly a mixed bag as a coach, a lot of things I love about him, and some others I don't feel great about. Couldn't agree more about Romar, and no matter what Skip says in his comments above, Romar was very much on the verge of putting together a special program here. I guess you can either believe that or not, but anyone close enough to the program knows it. I just wish he had been here long enough for everyone to see it happen. He definitely is a mixed bag, but I think everybody knew that going into this. RM is a great basketball coach and that is not opinion that is fact based on his success. Will he turn things around at SLU? I believe he will. I believe he is heading this team and this program in the right direction. Time will certainly tell if that is correct. Like many others, I get excited about a new coach and want him to be everything to everyone, but that is part of my eternal optimism. Even if history would say different, I always believe things will be different in a different situation. I sometimes forget at times and have to remind myself that I need to see people for the roles they were hired for. RM is a basketball coach and an outspoken one at that. He has a large personality and with that there can be issues. Is it possible to hire a great basketball coach who also is a top notch person on every level? Sure it is. But, how many of those are out there? And, for the ones that are out there, do they want to come to SLU? I don't believe our program should be willing to sell it's soul to the devil just to win games and build a program, especially being a Catholic institution. But, if you have very high standards on all fronts, your list of coaches is probably pretty small. So, I think there has to be trade offs. Unfortunately, you have to take some bad with the good. I would say overall RM's hiring has been good. Has it been perfect? Absolutely not. With any person with a large personality, they will inevitably rub somebody wrong. I don't get shook up about too much anymore unless it's really over the top. Heck, I even have to remind myself every time I watch a movie that I am watching the actors in their roles and not think about them as people and whether I agree or disagree with them as people. If I did that, I may not get to see too many movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Does no one else see the 800 lb elephant in the room? If not, I'll say it. Roy, believe you want to talk about Brad again WITHOUT DIRECTLY STATING IT. Brad catered his entire offense around TL and KL and, even with IV, we didn't win that much. TL greatly improved his shot under Brad but that's about it. Without good games by KL and TL, we'd lose. No more - we are becoming diversified!! Don't get me wrong, without TL and KL this year, we'd get killed this year; however, tonight's game is a great example that RM is not interested in 2 stars but rather that his full team star. Roy, no doubt the Lisch and Liddell families are not RM's biggest fans, and we know you are connected to the Lisch family. As previously discussed in other threads, it is likely that RM would not have recruited TL and that KL may have chosen to play for a different coach but RM is here to stay, KL and TL are playing great, our team is winning, top notch recruits are coming and yet the bitching continues. I, for one, believe that had RM recruited both KL and TL and had they played for him for 4 years (not just 2), they'd each be so much better than they even are today. I take no offense with RM's comments. Actually I would think that the Lisch's like RM or else why would they have let Daniel to sign for this year? I have no idea about the Liddel's but TL seems to be Ok with RM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Got it- I misunderstood. He's certainly a mixed bag as a coach, a lot of things I love about him, and some others I don't feel great about. Couldn't agree more about Romar, and no matter what Skip says in his comments above, Romar was very much on the verge of putting together a special program here. I guess you can either believe that or not, but anyone close enough to the program knows it. I just wish he had been here long enough for everyone to see it happen. Romar was on the verge of having nothing and that is why he left. Right after BS took over he had one player transfer, 2 flunk out and a signee drop out. He left the cupboard if not bare then a bit light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Romar hasn't won big, and he wasn't going to win big here. What ifs ... don't count. back to back sweet 16's in six years he is the second most successful coach in washington history. he probably wasnt going to win big here under the previous rules and guidelines of slu athletics. but if he had rickma's ancillary setup and budget and facilities, i would say he would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm going to have to agree with my fellow band member here. I find it absolutely ridiculous that you are going to claim that Majerus is such a jerk. There aren't a lot of coaches out there who care more about his players succeeding not only in the game of basketball, but life in general. He may be critical on his players with regards to their basketball, but in no way shape or form does he regularly cross the line like you seem to indicate. If there are members on this team, family members of players on the team, or just "concerned" fans who can't handle the high level of expectations that Majerus has for his players, they need to get off their high horses. In the past, when we bathed in the glory of mediocrity all these people complained. Now, when we have a big time coach who is trying to transform SLU into a nationally prominent program (exactly what people were crying for before) more complaints. What is it that you guys want. If you have heard through the grapevine that certain players find RM too tough on them or "rude" in practice they need to get over it as well. These guys are getting paid the equivalent of roughly $120,000 in scholarship. It does not have to be easy and you do not have to agree with your coach. What happens in the future when they don't agree with their boss at a job? They can whine about it or they can just accept it for what it is and work hard everyday. Furthermore, what did you think you would accomplish by trying to make something out of a simple and accurate remark by Majerus about the team. In terms of Majerus' system, these players are sophomores because it is their second year in the program. If this offends the players (I reiterate) they really need to get over. If it doesn't bother the players then why do you care? It's a shame that you are jumping of the bandwagon now because with the recruits coming in next year and the current class of freshman Majerus is building a machine that will put us on the College Basketball map. Just enjoy the ride man and please stop acting like a sophomore (in high school) yourself roy. when have i ever said i was jumping off the bandwagon? if everyone that was every successful coaching college basketball acted as he does, you would have a great point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 back to back sweet 16's in six years he is the second most successful coach in washington history. he probably wasnt going to win big here under the previous rules and guidelines of slu athletics. but if he had rickma's ancillary setup and budget and facilities, i would say he would. he didn't and he wasn't on the verge of it. I guess we differ on "win big" He had 2 good years out of 6 for a Pac 10 school. No great years. To be honest, I thought he'd have Wash consistently top 25 or 30 but he hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 he didn't and he wasn't on the verge of it. I guess we differ on "win big" He had 2 good years out of 6 for a Pac 10 school. No great years. To be honest, I thought he'd have Wash consistently top 25 or 30 but he hasn't. If only Quinn Snyder would have taken the job first then they would not have gotten to Romar. Then, we'd know about Romar and Mizzou fans would have been happier as well. A win - win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 he didn't and he wasn't on the verge of it. I guess we differ on "win big" He had 2 good years out of 6 for a Pac 10 school. No great years. To be honest, I thought he'd have Wash consistently top 25 or 30 but he hasn't. I know it's not easy for me to make this argument when he left before anything happened. I guess you and cheeseman never met him. His recruits and the players who left had close relationships with him; for most of them, there was no reason to be at SLU if he wasn't there and Soderberg certainly wasn't the same type of guy or coach. He was handcuffed by a limited budget, a terrible practice facility, an oversized off-campus arena, a poor AD and antagonist associate AD (Flanagan). In spite of all of this, Romar is a guy I had full faith in and his players would do anything for him. Why do you think there was an exodus once he left? Those guys had no relationship with Brad and didn't want to play for him. One or two may have missed the first semester of play for academic reasons, but we wouldn't have lost entire consecutive classes. By the way, this freshman class at Washington is a top 20 class (on a very young team overall) and he has another nice one on the way, including one of the top point guards in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 If some of you guys could stop making out with KL for a second you'd realize he is a choke artist. "Have you been to any games and seen KL" yes I have and he about gives me an ulcer. We might as well call him Mark Bulger. Sucks all through the game and lets the other team put us away, but then he'll nail 3's when were down 20 points to pad his stats. DID YOU SEE THE X GAME WHEN HE HIT THOSE 3's?!?!?!? yeah i was sitting in the stands when we LOST that game. If you want to boast about games we lost you need help. I was also at the Kent State game when our best defender, KL, let a guy go off on him in crunch time. Let the same guy take him to the hole for the winning basket. CLUTCH! Bottom line, KL is hardly ever a game changer. People like him because he is a clean cut white kid who went to a catholic high school. Highly overrated imo. Maybe we can call him "the greatest player in college basketball history to never make it to a postseason tournament" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 if some of you guys could stop making out with KL for a second you'd realize he is a choke artist. "Have you been to any games and seen KL" yes I have and he about gives me an ulcer. We might as well call him Mark Bulger. Sucks all through the game and lets the other team put us away, but then he'll nail 3's when were down 20 points to pad his stats. DID YOU SEE THE X GAME WHEN HE HIT THOSE 3's?!?!?!? yeah i was sitting in the stands when we LOST that game. If you want to boast about games we lost you need help. Bottom line, KL is hardly ever a game changer. People like him because he is a clean cut white kid who went to a catholic high school. Highly overrated imo How many posts do you need to get across that you are not a fan of Kevin Lisch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 he didn't and he wasn't on the verge of it. I guess we differ on "win big" He had 2 good years out of 6 for a Pac 10 school. No great years. To be honest, I thought he'd have Wash consistently top 25 or 30 but he hasn't. when history shows that washington has been mediocre pretty much forever, (in 6 years he has the second most wins of any huskie coach in history already) to trips to the sweet 16 and passing all previous coaches but one in wins isnt an impact? wouldnt we be pretty darn happy with two sweet 16's every 6 years? that's not an impact? come on skip. what you are asking to happen doesnt happen at schools that have no history of previously being at that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 How many posts do you need to get across that you are not a fan of Kevin Lisch? As many as it takes to flame the board. Nextyear is ridiculous, I think most of us recognize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 i realize its just disapointing for some of you to come to terms that he is just plain average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 i realize its just disapointing for some of you to come to terms that he is just plain average Hmmm, no, that's not it. But keep spewing your nonsense. I'm sure you will accomplish your goal of getting someone fired up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I know it's not easy for me to make this argument when he left before anything happened. I guess you and cheeseman never met him. His recruits and the players who left had close relationships with him; for most of them, there was no reason to be at SLU if he wasn't there and Soderberg certainly wasn't the same type of guy or coach. He was handcuffed by a limited budget, a terrible practice facility, an oversized off-campus arena, a poor AD and antagonist associate AD (Flanagan). In spite of all of this, Romar is a guy I had full faith in and his players would do anything for him. Why do you think there was an exodus once he left? Those guys had no relationship with Brad and didn't want to play for him. One or two may have missed the first semester of play for academic reasons, but we wouldn't have lost entire consecutive classes. By the way, this freshman class at Washington is a top 20 class (on a very young team overall) and he has another nice one on the way, including one of the top point guards in the country. I met him numerous times and liked him alot. There s a huge difference between he'd have been successful with better support and he was on the verge of hitting it big. Players left due to grades Edwin, injuries McClain, and Nick Kern was never coming regardless of the coach. The Cal kid Hollins didn't turn out to b the 2nd coming either. Personally, I think Romar would have done well eventually. He wouldn't have done as well as RM will and he wasn't on the verge of hitting it big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 when history shows that washington has been mediocre pretty much forever, (in 6 years he has the second most wins of any huskie coach in history already) to trips to the sweet 16 and passing all previous coaches but one in wins isnt an impact? wouldnt we be pretty darn happy with two sweet 16's every 6 years? that's not an impact? come on skip. what you are asking to happen doesnt happen at schools that have no history of previously being at that level. The statement was "won big" I don't think Romar's won big regardless of the school. He's been a Head Coach about 10 years and has 2 sweet 16's and a bunch of mediocre years. I don't think he's a bad coach, I think he's a good coach ... I just wouldn't classify what he's done as "winning big". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 i realize its just disapointing for some of you to come to terms that he is just plain average -i am possibly going onto dangerous ground, but what is your view of the other players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I met him numerous times and liked him alot. There s a huge difference between he'd have been successful with better support and he was on the verge of hitting it big. Players left due to grades Edwin, injuries McClain, and Nick Kern was never coming regardless of the coach. The Cal kid Hollins didn't turn out to b the 2nd coming either. Personally, I think Romar would have done well eventually. He wouldn't have done as well as RM will and he wasn't on the verge of hitting it big. Let me add to Skip's points. When Romar shed those tears about leaving, I truly think he was either crying out of shame for his failures about the poor state of affairs he not only created but also and was leaving for his friend, Brad (remember, Spoon left loaded with Justin Love, Marquee Perry, Heinrich, Baniak, Tatum, etc. -and like at Washington- he did win) or they were tears of absolute joy and luck at leaving before he took the blame and would not get another chance like he did with Washington. He absolutely knew or should have know about the failing grades of both Edwin and McClain - neither of whom was all that great anyway. Best we had at the time, yes. Great? No. Also, he knew that Nick Kern would not make grades/enroll at SLU and he had no back-up. None. Sound familiar?? As to Hollins, you will note that he did not make an impact until he was a Senior at UCLA. We were playing in Conf USA which had competition equal to, or somewhat equal to, that of the Big 10. A-10 is not. My point is that he would not have made an impact at SLU either until at least his Junior year. Without any other help, and none was coming from Romar, he would have gotten homesick and frustrated and left after his first semester. We were not on the verge of anything but an abyss. Brad did save the program, for awhile, until he began striking out on recruits. I have never seen a coach (such as Brad) start off quite well (Ohanon, Drejaj, etc.) and then consistently get worse each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 -i am possibly going onto dangerous ground, but what is your view of the other players? TL has been under utilized his entire career at SLU. I might even blame KL for slowing down his progress. BC is the truth WR is the truth KM will be twice the player KL is when this is all said and done. I like SLU but when we have to settle with KL as our go to guy, were going to fail. Thats just the player he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 wouldnt we be pretty darn happy with two sweet 16's every 6 years? that's not an impact? Brandon Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 TL has been under utilized his entire career at SLU. I might even blame KL for slowing down his progress. I've heard KL has tried to break TL's ankles in pick-up games. You might be on to something here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I've heard KL has tried to break TL's ankles in pick-up games. You might be on to something here. Let Tommie guard the Kent State kid in the final minute, we win that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Let Tommie guard the Kent State kid in the final minute, we win that game. No kidding. Because KL is average at best (i might even venture to say he sucks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 No kidding. Because KL is average at best (i might even venture to say he sucks). I hear ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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