Bills by 6 over Liberty

[The Wiz]

This won't be a walk in the park but we should win

[MusicCityBilliken]

This won't be a walk in the park but we should win

I seen that DePaul escaped with a 1 point win last night with Liberty.

[Pistol]

I seen that DePaul escaped with a 1 point win last night with Liberty.

I would take any win over this team, no matter how ugly (although I don't think we're capable of playing anything but ugly games).

[MusicCityBilliken]

I would take any win over this team, no matter how ugly (although I don't think we're capable of playing anything but ugly games).

I have some friends from UNC Charlotte that always accused us playing the ugliest basketball they have ever seen, even in the old CUSA days. I just used to blow them off as sour grapes when we beat them.

After watching this years' team, even with these buy games, we play the worst kind of basketball I seen in a long time. We should really be running up the scores with teams like Samford, USC Upstate, Savannah, etc..

Anyway, I will also take a ugly win over a glamorous loss

[SShoe]

I have some friends from UNC Charlotte that always accused us playing the ugliest basketball they have ever seen, even in the old CUSA days. I just used to blow them off as sour grapes when we beat them.

After watching this years' team, even with these buy games, we play the worst kind of basketball I seen in a long time. We should really be running up the scores with teams like Samford, USC Upstate, Savannah, etc..

Anyway, I will also take a ugly win over a glamorous loss

I was thinking about that recently and agree, we do play a very ugly brand of basketball. And for some reason, despite multiple coaching changes, we've done it for years. Can anyone explain the reason for this?

[saluki762]

Anyway, I will also take a ugly win over a glamorous loss

Saluki fans have been saying this for years.

[willie]

I was thinking about that recently and agree, we do play a very ugly brand of basketball. And for some reason, despite multiple coaching changes, we've done it for years. Can anyone explain the reason for this?

I think it's simple. We have always been a little light on having good athletes. If most of the teams you play are bigger stronger quicker you need to muck up the game. Hopefully as we get better athletes like willie the game will have a better flow. We didn't have anybody like upstates #32. So for us to win we need to slow it down,work for good shots,play hard defense,kill the clock,in other words play ugly.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I think it's simple. We have always been a little light on having good athletes. If most of the teams you play are bigger stronger quicker you need to muck up the game. Hopefully as we get better athletes like willie the game will have a better flow. We didn't have anybody like upstates #32. So for us to win we need to slow it down,work for good shots,play hard defense,kill the clock,in other words play ugly.

Seems like that has been our MO since the Claggett/Highmark years.

[Taj79]

I would agree and say that we've done that as our great equalizer. Short of Hughes and the Clagg teams, we have never had the talent to run up and down the floor and compete night after night. We've never had a true home court advantage either, so that potential negating factor has never been on our side. Without talent you are left with style and game planning to get you where you need to be. On that note, I am really looking forward to seeing what Penn State does against USC in the Rose Bowl this year. At first blush, no way Penn State has the talent to match up but with over a month to prepare, I'm banking on JoPa and staff to game plan out their ying-yangs. I think it has the makings of the best bowl game out there this year.

Back to the Bills ---- another issue with us that goes along with talent is that talent's youth and ability. Right now, you should see a lot of teams basically come out in zones against us. Let's see if the talent is there to make a shot and let's see if the kids panic. That's what I would do. So every possession, as Majerus says, becomes key. I think that is also why we see so many "flat lines" in our gaem tracking over time. When the youth matures, and the talent remains (hopefully), we will be better. What do I mean "hopefully?" You have to hope that there aren't so many bad nights that the kids lose confidence in themselves and pack it in. Example? Dwayne Polk's outside shooting. Sports is a confidence game, that's why a closer comes back the night after blowing it, a shooter still takes shots while in a 2-for-19 night, a QB or RB wants back on the field after a crucial fumble or interception. Everybody knows the stories of Ryan Leaf and Rick Ankiel and others --- guys who were so mentally gone that they either had to get out of the game or find a new position. It's human nature.

Who said the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores? Sure, there are those guys like Hughes who take over in one year and move on. But I'd offer they are somewhat far and few between. We had one --- and I fully expect to NEVER see one in my lifetime again. All our current freshmen come with nice talent resumes and yet we are still struggling. I think that proves my rare point. But I think over time, this will be a great team, providing it is not mentally destroyed trying to get there.

I shudder to think what the response to this statement will be but I'll make it anyway ---- we still might be a year and a half away. Our freshmen progress this year (not regress or lose it). We still have to replace two arguable all-conference players next year in Lisch and Liddell. Our freshmen will again be freshmen so there will be a learning curve there. I odn't expect Reid and Salesvich to step into the fray immediately, do you? You hope Mitchell, Cassity, Conklin, Thompson and Reed are all at the same level and improving this time next year but you don't really know. You hope to avoid the injury bug or the transfer bug (i.e. Cotto). Patience is the key. Come 2010-2011, this team, if progress remains positive, should be ranked in the preseason. That's what I'm looking at.

[SShoe]

I think it's simple. We have always been a little light on having good athletes. If most of the teams you play are bigger stronger quicker you need to muck up the game. Hopefully as we get better athletes like willie the game will have a better flow. We didn't have anybody like upstates #32. So for us to win we need to slow it down,work for good shots,play hard defense,kill the clock,in other words play ugly.

I can see why we'd play an ugly brand against the Memphis' of the world, but why do we need to play like that against clowns like USC Upstate?

[billiken_roy]

besides the supposed lack of talent (i dont necessarily agree, i think both romar and soderberg had less talented teams at points in their respective stays), i think that frankly rickma's motion offense sucks. their is way too much standing and negative away from the basket motion. there is little precision associated with the cuts and screens. and the distance that our dribblers come to screens is more or less worthless. count the number of times that we do and do not actually use screens off the dribble in games. i would bet not even half dribble to the screen or if they do dribble close enough to force a switch or even at least a close slide through by the respective defender.

i think what we are seeing is a lot of what we saw last year prior to xmas where the team just didnt take to the rickma offense and then after jan 1 we junked it almost completely.

this year it isnt being rejected as violently as last year, but again, it just isnt clicking. be it the existing personnel just dont jive with it (might as well read that lisch and liddell) or it just isnt working. but i still think we have the best set of freshmen to enter the program maybe in the last thirty years (hughes by himself possibly the exception) and thus far we have only seen flashes of their abilities.

[Taj79]

Well, the short answer is no. But again, the talent and experience and psyche of the kids on the court is the same no matter the opponent. Maybe as hard core fans of this team or that team, we overestimate what we really have. I've seen that done before, myself included.

Going back to game planning, I'm going to believe that Rick and staff are doing what they think is best to nurture this precocious group along. I think Tommie would be best suited to a run-and-gun game where he is slashing all over the court. I don't think there is a single player on the roster to support him there. I think Kevin would be best suited to a motion game, one where he runs off screens and stops-n-pops for jumpers. As I said elsewhere, I don't think that is unknown to just about every coach out there right now. If this team was in a game where we needed a jumper to win or tie, I'd take the clock down to ten seconds and then double jump out on Kevin, forcing someone else to beat me. I'd rather, as a coach, have Tommie or anyone else on this team taking the final shot, anyone but Kevin. I could live with that result. Box and one it with whomever was in the area nearest Kevin doubling him with or without the ball.

Also, the game is played in the moment. What effect did having three guards and a short bench play last night?

[SShoe]

besides the supposed lack of talent (i dont necessarily agree, i think both romar and soderberg had less talented teams at points in their respective stays), i think that frankly rickma's motion offense sucks. their is way too much standing and negative away from the basket motion. there is little precision associated with the cuts and screens. and the distance that our dribblers come to screens is more or less worthless. count the number of times that we do and do not actually use screens off the dribble in games. i would bet not even half dribble to the screen or if they do dribble close enough to force a switch or even at least a close slide through by the respective defender.

i think what we are seeing is a lot of what we saw last year prior to xmas where the team just didnt take to the rickma offense and then after jan 1 we junked it almost completely.

this year it isnt being rejected as violently as last year, but again, it just isnt clicking. be it the existing personnel just dont jive with it (might as well read that lisch and liddell) or it just isnt working. but i still think we have the best set of freshmen to enter the program maybe in the last thirty years (hughes by himself possibly the exception) and thus far we have only seen flashes of their abilities.

Rick's offense is very conducive to a nice shooting 4 or 5. When the on-the-ball screen comes from BC, BT, or WR, they roll towards the baseline and are usually open for a 10 to 15 footer. Unfortunately, two things are going wrong. 1.) Those guys aren't quite comfortable yet and hesitate when open, and 2.) KL and TL are not the best at getting them the ball right away. Way too often, the opposing D overplays and pushes those guys out beyond the perimeter. By that time, their big can often recover and our offense needs resetting. If they got the ball to BC or whomever right away, and he is easily able to convert, then that overplay would go away and TL or KL would have an easier path to the basket.

It's a system similar to a Utah Jazz, pick and roll-style offense where a very good passing guard and sweet shooting big are critical. That's why Rick has always said the two most important positions on the floor are the 1 and the 4. I think it could work, but we need the right personnel.

[Cowboy]

besides the supposed lack of talent (i dont necessarily agree, i think both romar and soderberg had less talented teams at points in their respective stays), i think that frankly rickma's motion offense sucks. their is way too much standing and negative away from the basket motion. there is little precision associated with the cuts and screens. and the distance that our dribblers come to screens is more or less worthless. count the number of times that we do and do not actually use screens off the dribble in games. i would bet not even half dribble to the screen or if they do dribble close enough to force a switch or even at least a close slide through by the respective defender.

i think what we are seeing is a lot of what we saw last year prior to xmas where the team just didnt take to the rickma offense and then after jan 1 we junked it almost completely.

this year it isnt being rejected as violently as last year, but again, it just isnt clicking. be it the existing personnel just dont jive with it (might as well read that lisch and liddell) or it just isnt working. but i still think we have the best set of freshmen to enter the program maybe in the last thirty years (hughes by himself possibly the exception) and thus far we have only seen flashes of their abilities.

-i agree that there is way too much standing on our offense, i noticed against samford in the 2nd half that both kl and km barked at their teammates about moving, i did not see anything like that last night but the standing was certainly there, by everyone

-our screens and use of them leave a lot to be desired, no doubt

-i am surprised rick allows the standing, perhaps an issue of our new found for this season and continuation of a seemingly life long affliction of lack of depth

[cheeseman]

I would agree and say that we've done that as our great equalizer. Short of Hughes and the Clagg teams, we have never had the talent to run up and down the floor and compete night after night. We've never had a true home court advantage either, so that potential negating factor has never been on our side. Without talent you are left with style and game planning to get you where you need to be. On that note, I am really looking forward to seeing what Penn State does against USC in the Rose Bowl this year. At first blush, no way Penn State has the talent to match up but with over a month to prepare, I'm banking on JoPa and staff to game plan out their ying-yangs. I think it has the makings of the best bowl game out there this year.

Back to the Bills ---- another issue with us that goes along with talent is that talent's youth and ability. Right now, you should see a lot of teams basically come out in zones against us. Let's see if the talent is there to make a shot and let's see if the kids panic. That's what I would do. So every possession, as Majerus says, becomes key. I think that is also why we see so many "flat lines" in our gaem tracking over time. When the youth matures, and the talent remains (hopefully), we will be better. What do I mean "hopefully?" You have to hope that there aren't so many bad nights that the kids lose confidence in themselves and pack it in. Example? Dwayne Polk's outside shooting. Sports is a confidence game, that's why a closer comes back the night after blowing it, a shooter still takes shots while in a 2-for-19 night, a QB or RB wants back on the field after a crucial fumble or interception. Everybody knows the stories of Ryan Leaf and Rick Ankiel and others --- guys who were so mentally gone that they either had to get out of the game or find a new position. It's human nature.

Who said the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores? Sure, there are those guys like Hughes who take over in one year and move on. But I'd offer they are somewhat far and few between. We had one --- and I fully expect to NEVER see one in my lifetime again. All our current freshmen come with nice talent resumes and yet we are still struggling. I think that proves my rare point. But I think over time, this will be a great team, providing it is not mentally destroyed trying to get there.

I shudder to think what the response to this statement will be but I'll make it anyway ---- we still might be a year and a half away. Our freshmen progress this year (not regress or lose it). We still have to replace two arguable all-conference players next year in Lisch and Liddell. Our freshmen will again be freshmen so there will be a learning curve there. I odn't expect Reid and Salesvich to step into the fray immediately, do you? You hope Mitchell, Cassity, Conklin, Thompson and Reed are all at the same level and improving this time next year but you don't really know. You hope to avoid the injury bug or the transfer bug (i.e. Cotto). Patience is the key. Come 2010-2011, this team, if progress remains positive, should be ranked in the preseason. That's what I'm looking at.

Those who have looked at our situation objectively would not disagree with your last statement. I have been concerned about where the scoring would come from next year but actually the fall off of TL and KL scoring might actually be a blessing if the freshmen come to realize that they can not simply wait for those two to score and that they themselves will have to pick up their scoring. We saw a bit of it last night.

[cheeseman]

besides the supposed lack of talent (i dont necessarily agree, i think both romar and soderberg had less talented teams at points in their respective stays), i think that frankly rickma's motion offense sucks. their is way too much standing and negative away from the basket motion. there is little precision associated with the cuts and screens. and the distance that our dribblers come to screens is more or less worthless. count the number of times that we do and do not actually use screens off the dribble in games. i would bet not even half dribble to the screen or if they do dribble close enough to force a switch or even at least a close slide through by the respective defender.

i think what we are seeing is a lot of what we saw last year prior to xmas where the team just didnt take to the rickma offense and then after jan 1 we junked it almost completely.

this year it isnt being rejected as violently as last year, but again, it just isnt clicking. be it the existing personnel just dont jive with it (might as well read that lisch and liddell) or it just isnt working. but i still think we have the best set of freshmen to enter the program maybe in the last thirty years (hughes by himself possibly the exception) and thus far we have only seen flashes of their abilities.

Roy, I know you are convinced that last year RM changed his approach totally and I know that some on this board - including me - think that he was far from "junking" his approach. He simply made a few adjustments which everyone should have thought would happen anyway. I doubt that things will be junked after Jan. 1 but I do expect to see better play. I do agree with you that there is too much standing around and I am not sure why that is other than we seemed to stand around when BS was here as well as Romar. Maybe it is something in the water at SLU.

[mcglotherirvin]

we are playing a lot of freshman. last time we relied this heavily on freshman was when clags and highmark were frosh. pretty good class and that season was terrible.

besides the supposed lack of talent (i dont necessarily agree, i think both romar and soderberg had less talented teams at points in their respective stays), i think that frankly rickma's motion offense sucks. their is way too much standing and negative away from the basket motion. there is little precision associated with the cuts and screens. and the distance that our dribblers come to screens is more or less worthless. count the number of times that we do and do not actually use screens off the dribble in games. i would bet not even half dribble to the screen or if they do dribble close enough to force a switch or even at least a close slide through by the respective defender.

i think what we are seeing is a lot of what we saw last year prior to xmas where the team just didnt take to the rickma offense and then after jan 1 we junked it almost completely.

this year it isnt being rejected as violently as last year, but again, it just isnt clicking. be it the existing personnel just dont jive with it (might as well read that lisch and liddell) or it just isnt working. but i still think we have the best set of freshmen to enter the program maybe in the last thirty years (hughes by himself possibly the exception) and thus far we have only seen flashes of their abilities.

[billiken_roy]

we are playing a lot of freshman. last time we relied this heavily on freshman was when clags and highmark were frosh. pretty good class and that season was terrible.

if claggett and highmark had two seniors that were going to also end up in the top ten all time scorers i am betting they would have won a lot of games under grawer that year. instead, their seniors walked off the floor in the middle of a close game never to play again or in the dark of night transferred to d-2 kentucky colleges.